Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:44 pm

looks like the dings are rolling in

i wonder what % of the class has two or fewer callbacks

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:50 pm

I have three callbacks next week. I'm pretty sure I got them just based on personality but I am not really that personable, I just clicked with the interviewer. Honestly, I want to blame OCS for not providing enough data/advice to us but I feel the failure is mine for not getting good enough grades.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have three callbacks next week. I'm pretty sure I got them just based on personality but I am not really that personable, I just clicked with the interviewer. Honestly, I want to blame OCS for not providing enough data/advice to us but I feel the failure is mine for not getting good enough grades.


I blame whoever is responsible for the 80 transfers.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have three callbacks next week. I'm pretty sure I got them just based on personality but I am not really that personable, I just clicked with the interviewer. Honestly, I want to blame OCS for not providing enough data/advice to us but I feel the failure is mine for not getting good enough grades.


I blame whoever is responsible for the 80 transfers.



Does anyone have any idea how transfers are doing this year at OCI this year at cls?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:35 pm

Every transfer I've talked to has some callbacks.

It is indeed a zero sum game. Firms have an unofficial limit on the number of people from a given school they hire, and *80* transfers definitely affect your chances of getting hired, particularly if you are borderline.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:42 pm

Anybody have callbacks for offices in Asia?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Every transfer I've talked to has some callbacks.

It is indeed a zero sum game. Firms have an unofficial limit on the number of people from a given school they hire, and *80* transfers definitely affect your chances of getting hired, particularly if you are borderline.


But do transfers count as CLS students or from the school they are coming from? It might be firm-specific.

There definitely is some small effect on the number of screeners a CLSer will get. But 80 transfers rather than 60 isn't that big of a deal. I'm more angry at OCS for not releasing grade ranges to help people bid better and the school for trying to pretend like grades don't matter. Personally, I bid heavily on a secondary market and am getting shut out. Some warning that "the same 10 or 12 people from your region are going to get all the callbacks from those firms and they have X GPA" would have been helpful.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:46 pm

What firms are the transfers getting? I must admit that it's a bit frustrating for those of us who went through CLS 1L...

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
But do transfers count as CLS students or from the school they are coming from? It might be firm-specific.

There definitely is some small effect on the number of screeners a CLSer will get. But 80 transfers rather than 60 isn't that big of a deal. I'm more angry at OCS for not releasing grade ranges to help people bid better and the school for trying to pretend like grades don't matter. Personally, I bid heavily on a secondary market and am getting shut out. Some warning that "the same 10 or 12 people from your region are going to get all the callbacks from those firms and they have X GPA" would have been helpful.


They obviously count as Columbia students, because that is the school that goes on the firm website, which is all firms care about.

I don't understand what you mean by a "small effect on the number of screeners" a CLSer will get. 80 transfers grows the class by 20%, meaning significantly less screeners, callbacks, and most importantly, offers. If a firm has a rough limit of recruiting five people from CLS, and suddenly CLS adds 80 people who have great grades, you don't think that affects your chances of getting an offer greatly?

I agree with respect to Career Services being useless. They don't publicize the Stone numbers from last year because they are so terrible, and they don't adequately warn about secondary markets and also about firms that show up but don't hire people.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What firms are the transfers getting? I must admit that it's a bit frustrating for those of us who went through CLS 1L...


The whole spectrum of firms.

This will be more than "a bit frustrating" to people who end up jobless like half the class last year and have to scramble for 40k PI.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
But do transfers count as CLS students or from the school they are coming from? It might be firm-specific.

There definitely is some small effect on the number of screeners a CLSer will get. But 80 transfers rather than 60 isn't that big of a deal. I'm more angry at OCS for not releasing grade ranges to help people bid better and the school for trying to pretend like grades don't matter. Personally, I bid heavily on a secondary market and am getting shut out. Some warning that "the same 10 or 12 people from your region are going to get all the callbacks from those firms and they have X GPA" would have been helpful.


They obviously count as Columbia students, because that is the school that goes on the firm website, which is all firms care about.

I don't understand what you mean by a "small effect on the number of screeners" a CLSer will get. 80 transfers grows the class by 20%, meaning significantly less screeners, callbacks, and most importantly, offers. If a firm has a rough limit of recruiting five people from CLS, and suddenly CLS adds 80 people who have great grades, you don't think that affects your chances of getting an offer greatly?

I agree with respect to Career Services being useless. They don't publicize the Stone numbers from last year because they are so terrible, and they don't adequately warn about secondary markets and also about firms that show up but don't hire people.


Do you think that the interviewers realize that great grades from "worse" schools shouldn't disqualify CLS students who were on the 1L curve?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
But do transfers count as CLS students or from the school they are coming from? It might be firm-specific.

There definitely is some small effect on the number of screeners a CLSer will get. But 80 transfers rather than 60 isn't that big of a deal. I'm more angry at OCS for not releasing grade ranges to help people bid better and the school for trying to pretend like grades don't matter. Personally, I bid heavily on a secondary market and am getting shut out. Some warning that "the same 10 or 12 people from your region are going to get all the callbacks from those firms and they have X GPA" would have been helpful.


They obviously count as Columbia students, because that is the school that goes on the firm website, which is all firms care about.

I don't understand what you mean by a "small effect on the number of screeners" a CLSer will get. 80 transfers grows the class by 20%, meaning significantly less screeners, callbacks, and most importantly, offers. If a firm has a rough limit of recruiting five people from CLS, and suddenly CLS adds 80 people who have great grades, you don't think that affects your chances of getting an offer greatly?

I agree with respect to Career Services being useless. They don't publicize the Stone numbers from last year because they are so terrible, and they don't adequately warn about secondary markets and also about firms that show up but don't hire people.


What I meant was that a certain number of transfers (I think ~60) was the norm before ITE and now there are ~80. So about 400 less slots open than before. I expected a certain number of transfers but I don't know why they are increasing that number (cynicism aside).

I've also heard that firms, when considering transfers, use the same standards they would use as if they were interviewing at that schools OCI- so maybe they also consider those students as part of the number of students they hire from that school. I don't know. But personally, I was affected less by the increase in transfers than by a) my own academic shortcomings (though had I done better, another student would most likely be in my position), b) the failure of OCS to be 100% honest about what this process entails and what a medianish student like me can expect in terms of grade cutoffs.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
What I meant was that a certain number of transfers (I think ~60) was the norm before ITE and now there are ~80. So about 400 less slots open than before. I expected a certain number of transfers but I don't know why they are increasing that number (cynicism aside).

I've also heard that firms, when considering transfers, use the same standards they would use as if they were interviewing at that schools OCI- so maybe they also consider those students as part of the number of students they hire from that school. I don't know. But personally, I was affected less by the increase in transfers than by a) my own academic shortcomings (though had I done better, another student would most likely be in my position), b) the failure of OCS to be 100% honest about what this process entails and what a medianish student like me can expect in terms of grade cutoffs.


They are increasing that number during THE WORST RECESSION SINCE WORLD WAR II.

That shows a lot of loyalty to their students, no doubt.

A lot of firms don't even interview at schools transfers came from. They are getting an automatic boost.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:08 pm

I'm not sure why you're surprised by this. Columbia's administration is infamous for their absolute apathy -- if not hostility -- towards student welfare. If they cared, at all, they would have reduced the number of transfers, not increased it. Pretty much, we're (the people who got into CLS as 1L's and did not make Stone) are the losers.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not sure why you're surprised by this. Columbia's administration is infamous for their absolute apathy -- if not hostility -- towards student welfare. If they cared, at all, they would have reduced the number of transfers, not increased it. Pretty much, we're (the people who got into CLS as 1L's and did not make Stone) are the losers.


To top it all off, they increased tuition as well.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not sure why you're surprised by this. Columbia's administration is infamous for their absolute apathy -- if not hostility -- towards student welfare. If they cared, at all, they would have reduced the number of transfers, not increased it. Pretty much, we're (the people who got into CLS as 1L's and did not make Stone) are the losers.


To top it all off, they increased tuition as well.


Let this thread be a warning for 0Ls

ToTransferOrNot
Posts: 1928
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:45 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:16 pm

Jesus fucking christ, cry more.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:22 pm

Well, as a transfer student coming into CLS from a T20 (top 10%, LR, Moot Court, etc.), I generally think certain Columbia students (at least as indicated by some posts on these boards) feel automatically entitled to great jobs. Sorry, that's not how it works. If you worked hard, as I certainly did my 1L year, you would've made a Scholar designation.

As it currently stands, depending on what school the transfer is coming from, they MAY be considered over a CLS student who is at the bottom 1/3rd of the class. In that sense, the transfer may "take yer jerb" if you're on the low-end. A transfer student certainly wouldn't come before a CLS student who is above median however. If you'd like someone to act as the black sheep however, then I guess transfer students are an easy target. Shrug.

That being said, almost every CLS student I've met, in person, has been very nice. I think I've only met one person who has ever seemed upset about the transfer situation at CLS. Maybe the anonymity changes that though....
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:23 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Jesus fucking christ, cry more.


i take it you're a transfer? get out of "are" law school. you're not welcome

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have three callbacks next week. I'm pretty sure I got them just based on personality but I am not really that personable, I just clicked with the interviewer. Honestly, I want to blame OCS for not providing enough data/advice to us but I feel the failure is mine for not getting good enough grades.


I blame whoever is responsible for the 80 transfers.



Does anyone have any idea how transfers are doing this year at OCI this year at cls?

I was under the impression that all transfers did EIP. Otherwise, what's the point?

NYU>CLS, because at least they get historical grade cut-offs.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:That being said, almost every CLS student I've met, in person, has been very nice. I think I've only met one person who has ever seemed upset about the transfer situation at CLS. Maybe the anonymity changes that though....


LOL. I'm nice to every transfer I meet, of course. But in private, almost every person I've talked to has expressed disgust and contempt for CLS admin for *increasing* the amount of transfers despite the worst recession since WWII.

And LOL at you saying "if you had worked hard 1L year." Yeah, pwning the tards at your TTT20 is just the same as getting Stone at CLS.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:LOL. I'm nice to every transfer I meet, of course. But in private, almost every person I've talked to has expressed disgust and contempt for CLS admin for *increasing* the amount of transfers despite the worst recession since WWII.

And LOL at you saying "if you had worked hard 1L year." Yeah, pwning the tards at your TTT20 is just the same as getting Stone at CLS.


Hm...I think you've confused me with someone transferring from the TTT range. Perhaps if that were the case, your "argument" (i.e. insult) would hold some water. When I stated "T20", I meant, "one of the top 20 law schools in the nation." Didn't think I needed to elaborate. I'd say, at that range, the schools are pretty much the same, sans the name. Disagree if you'd like.

Oh, here ya go though:

Image
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Well, as a transfer student coming into CLS from a T20 (top 10%, LR, Moot Court, etc.), I generally think certain Columbia students (at least as indicated by some posts on these boards) feel automatically entitled to great jobs. Sorry, that's not how it works. If you worked hard, as I certainly did my 1L year, you would've made a Scholar designation.

As it currently stands, depending on what school the transfer is coming from, they MAY be considered over a CLS student who is at the bottom 1/3rd of the class. In that sense, the transfer may "take yer jerb" if you're on the low-end. A transfer student certainly wouldn't come before a CLS student who is above median however. If you'd like someone to act as the black sheep however, then I guess transfer students are an easy target. Shrug.

That being said, almost every CLS student I've met, in person, has been very nice. I think I've only met one person who has ever seemed upset about the transfer situation at CLS. Maybe the anonymity changes that though....


I'm not a "take yer jerb" person (I'm the guy above who isn't blaming transfers), but 95% of people at CLS work objectively "hard." I know people who near killed themselves studying and ended up below median and people who worked less hard and ended up Stone, but I can think of very few people who didn't put in the minimum work needed before you see vastly diminishing returns.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not a "take yer jerb" person (I'm the guy above who isn't blaming transfers), but 95% of people at CLS work objectively "hard." I know people who near killed themselves studying and ended up below median and people who worked less hard and ended up Stone, but I can think of very few people who didn't put in the minimum work needed before you see vastly diminishing returns.


True, I had meant to phrase it differently, but I couldn't think of an appropriate expression. You're right though, I imagine there were many students who worked very hard, yet just didn't "click". Alternatively, I imagine there were students who assumed they could coast merely because they got into CLS. My critique was more aimed toward them.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273104
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2010 Callbacks Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:33 pm

Ah yes, I was wondering when the ire directed at transfer students would begin.

Columbia has increased its class size by about 15% with transfer students every year. This year, it is only slightly above that. You knew this, or could have discovered it, when you applied. If you thought that this cheated you somehow, you should have gone to a different school that didn't take many transfer students. Yale, for example.

Just a reminder: you don't deserve a great job -- or any job for that matter -- just by virtue of going to CLS. Sorry you didn't do so well 1L year and are scrambling now, but, given the economy, that makes you undesirable as a candidate for employment. Transfer students are now also CLS students, and equally deserving of CLS resources. More than that, transfer students are more employable than you are, because they have some demonstrable record of success. CLS wants employable students, because that makes them look good.

For full disclosure, I'm a transfer student. And I have a number of great callbacks. But, none of them are with firms that wouldn't have interviewed me at my old school. I have about the same job prospects as I would have had at my old school. I haven't polled all other transfer students, but that seems to be the pattern. Transfers from significantly lower-ranked schools than my 1L school can get interviews through the CLS lottery with firms that never would have looked at them at their 1L school, but it doesn't look like they're getting callbacks from those firms.

In sum: most people are getting the jobs they deserve. Suck it up.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.