1L Summer

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
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Anonymous User
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1L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:52 pm

I am getting married next year and am a little worried what this means for my 1L summer work as I will need to take about 2 weeks off for the wedding/honeymoon.

a few questions:

1- I looked into UN internships and found out I will be able to take 2 weeks off if I make up the time by starting earlier than their actual start date. Would a UN internship be something good for 1L summer?

2- If firm work (even if it is unpaid) is a possibility, then how likely is it that I could get 2 weeks off? When do summer associates usually start?

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usuaggie
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby usuaggie » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:16 pm

same situation for me, i want to see what people say. i would like to point out though that getting married takes a day and a honeymoon isn't a requirement. ill be going to school in oregon, getting married in utah, and im from vegas, so i might end up there for summer. lots of distance/time problems.

Renzo
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Renzo » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:18 pm

Unless it's already scheduled, just shoot for late may or early august. It'll be easy to work around at the beginning or end.

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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:55 pm

Renzo wrote:Unless it's already scheduled, just shoot for late may or early august. It'll be easy to work around at the beginning or end.

From what I've seen, firms care much more about the beginning (starting the same first week as everyone else) than the end. The first 1-2 weeks have most of the training and way more mingling events. I'm in a secondary market, YMMV.

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Bosque
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Bosque » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:09 pm

First of all, if you work at a firm, they have to pay you. It is an ethics thing.

Second, the poster above me is right. Pretty much any job you have 1L summer is not going to care if you leave a little early, but they will care if you show up late. Or not so much care, but it will be harder to find work. If you schedule your wedding/honeymoon for the end of the summer, you should be ok.

However, that said, it might be a bad idea for other reasons. The end of the summer 1L year is when you should be hard at work trying to get a job for 2L summer. So you might have to spend some of your honeymoon writing cover letters and emails to firms. Up to you if you want to do that, or lose two weeks in the application cycle.

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rbgrocio
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby rbgrocio » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am getting married next year and am a little worried what this means for my 1L summer work as I will need to take about 2 weeks off for the wedding/honeymoon.

a few questions:

1- I looked into UN internships and found out I will be able to take 2 weeks off if I make up the time by starting earlier than their actual start date. Would a UN internship be something good for 1L summer?

2- If firm work (even if it is unpaid) is a possibility, then how likely is it that I could get 2 weeks off? When do summer associates usually start?



I work at a law firm getting paid and they gave me almost two weeks for finals (I take summer classes) and for a job interview.

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rbgrocio
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby rbgrocio » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:29 pm

Bosque wrote:First of all, if you work at a firm, they have to pay you. It is an ethics thing.

Second, the poster above me is right. Pretty much any job you have 1L summer is not going to care if you leave a little early, but they will care if you show up late. Or not so much care, but it will be harder to find work. If you schedule your wedding/honeymoon for the end of the summer, you should be ok.

However, that said, it might be a bad idea for other reasons. The end of the summer 1L year is when you should be hard at work trying to get a job for 2L summer. So you might have to spend some of your honeymoon writing cover letters and emails to firms. Up to you if you want to do that, or lose two weeks in the application cycle.



That's not true! Many, if not a lot of firms, don't pay 1Ls... I had about 10 different places where I could work this summer and 8 were unpaid.

Renzo
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Renzo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:56 am

rbgrocio wrote:
Bosque wrote:First of all, if you work at a firm, they have to pay you. It is an ethics thing.

Second, the poster above me is right. Pretty much any job you have 1L summer is not going to care if you leave a little early, but they will care if you show up late. Or not so much care, but it will be harder to find work. If you schedule your wedding/honeymoon for the end of the summer, you should be ok.

However, that said, it might be a bad idea for other reasons. The end of the summer 1L year is when you should be hard at work trying to get a job for 2L summer. So you might have to spend some of your honeymoon writing cover letters and emails to firms. Up to you if you want to do that, or lose two weeks in the application cycle.



That's not true! Many, if not a lot of firms, don't pay 1Ls... I had about 10 different places where I could work this summer and 8 were unpaid.

You're both right. Unpaid interns at private, for-profit businesses are extremely common, and illegal.

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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:08 am

.

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TTH
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby TTH » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:59 am

This thread is relevant to my interests. A side question for those of us considering scheduling weddings at the end of Spring semester. How soon after finals does the write-on competition begin and how long does it last?

Aqualibrium
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:11 am

TTH wrote:This thread is relevant to my interests. A side question for those of us considering scheduling weddings at the end of Spring semester. How soon after finals does the write-on competition begin and how long does it last?


That question can't be answered with certainty by anyone here. The start time of the law review write on competition varies. Some schools do it before finals, some immediately after, and some months later.

Also, to the OP, no one can really say how receptive a given employer will be to time off requests. I personally have had to take time off, and my employer hasn't cared, but it may be different for you. Additionally, no one can say with certainty when summer associates start. Some firms only have a first half program, some only have a second half program; some start two weeks after school, some start three weeks after school.

I think you get my drift.
Last edited by Aqualibrium on Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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TTH
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby TTH » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:14 am

Follow-up: When is the best time to bring up that I need time off to get married? During the interview, the callback, or after an offer has been made?

Also, am I wrong thinking that, since I'm a guy, mentioning that I'm settling down into a marriage will make me a more attractive candidate?

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rbgrocio
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby rbgrocio » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:14 am

Why didn't you guys get married before going to law school? three of the people in my class, me included, who are married, got married just a month or few weeks before class. One got married at the end of the Spring Semester, and she found it so stressful that she did not enjoy the whole planing and prepping.

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rbgrocio
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby rbgrocio » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:15 am

Renzo wrote:
rbgrocio wrote:
Bosque wrote:First of all, if you work at a firm, they have to pay you. It is an ethics thing.

Second, the poster above me is right. Pretty much any job you have 1L summer is not going to care if you leave a little early, but they will care if you show up late. Or not so much care, but it will be harder to find work. If you schedule your wedding/honeymoon for the end of the summer, you should be ok.

However, that said, it might be a bad idea for other reasons. The end of the summer 1L year is when you should be hard at work trying to get a job for 2L summer. So you might have to spend some of your honeymoon writing cover letters and emails to firms. Up to you if you want to do that, or lose two weeks in the application cycle.



That's not true! Many, if not a lot of firms, don't pay 1Ls... I had about 10 different places where I could work this summer and 8 were unpaid.

You're both right. Unpaid interns at private, for-profit businesses are extremely common, and illegal.


I don't see how it is illegal. Where did you guys get that from... I wanna know!

ViIIager
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby ViIIager » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:23 am

Everyone loves a free lawyer!

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/06/district-attorney-looking-for-lawyers-free-lawyers-of-course/

Actually, the comments to that article aren't as innane as usual. Some actually look at 29 U.S.C. 13(a)(1) and other legit references.

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Antipodean
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Antipodean » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:25 am

rbgrocio wrote:
Renzo wrote:You're both right. Unpaid interns at private, for-profit businesses are extremely common, and illegal.


I don't see how it is illegal. Where did you guys get that from... I wanna know!

The topic is discussed in depth in this NYT article. I recommend you read it in full, but the essential gist is that if you're performing any form of valuable work as an intern for a for-profit employer, then they need to be paying you.

Aqualibrium
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:46 am

TTH wrote:Follow-up: When is the best time to bring up that I need time off to get married? During the interview, the callback, or after an offer has been made?

Also, am I wrong thinking that, since I'm a guy, mentioning that I'm settling down into a marriage will make me a more attractive candidate?


Best time to bring it up is after you've accepted an offer and the firm asks if you have any prior commitments.

Yes you are wrong. No one cares that you are "settling down into marriage." Now if your fiancé/wife was from some xenophobic secondary market it would probably be worth mentioning. However, generally, it is unlikely that anyone will think you're more mature or safe because you are a guy that's getting married.

Total Litigator
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Total Litigator » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:06 am

Aqualibrium wrote:
Yes you are wrong. No one cares that you are "settling down into marriage." Now if your fiancé/wife was from some xenophobic secondary market it would probably be worth mentioning. However, generally, it is unlikely that anyone will think you're more mature or safe because you are a guy that's getting married.


I disagree, if I was an employer worried about retention, and I had to choose between an ambitious single law student and a law student with a wife or a family, I would think that a law student with a wife/family would be less likely to move away after settling in, and I would give them a small plus. Of course this is the exact opposite for jobs where a lot of travel/moving is required.

Aqualibrium
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:12 am

Total Litigator wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
Yes you are wrong. No one cares that you are "settling down into marriage." Now if your fiancé/wife was from some xenophobic secondary market it would probably be worth mentioning. However, generally, it is unlikely that anyone will think you're more mature or safe because you are a guy that's getting married.


I disagree, if I was an employer worried about retention, and I had to choose between an ambitious single law student and a law student with a wife or a family, I would think that a law student with a wife/family would be less likely to move away after settling in, and I would give them a small plus. Of course this is the exact opposite for jobs where a lot of travel/moving is required.



I've seen summer associate hiring first hand. You don't get a boost cuz you're a guy who is about to get married. Like I said before, if your SO is from some market that you are interviewing in, perhaps it's a plus. Absent that, being married is just an interesting point to note. It doesn't make you any more or less attractive to employers.

Just my opinion though. You are allowed to disagree.

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Bosque
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Bosque » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:44 am

Aqualibrium wrote:
Total Litigator wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
Yes you are wrong. No one cares that you are "settling down into marriage." Now if your fiancé/wife was from some xenophobic secondary market it would probably be worth mentioning. However, generally, it is unlikely that anyone will think you're more mature or safe because you are a guy that's getting married.


I disagree, if I was an employer worried about retention, and I had to choose between an ambitious single law student and a law student with a wife or a family, I would think that a law student with a wife/family would be less likely to move away after settling in, and I would give them a small plus. Of course this is the exact opposite for jobs where a lot of travel/moving is required.



I've seen summer associate hiring first hand. You don't get a boost cuz you're a guy who is about to get married. Like I said before, if your SO is from some market that you are interviewing in, perhaps it's a plus. Absent that, being married is just an interesting point to note. It doesn't make you any more or less attractive to employers.

Just my opinion though. You are allowed to disagree.


You've seen Summer Associate hiring at one, maybe two firms (unless you are counting hiring where you are not privy to the discussions of the hiring committee, in which case you have as much experience as the rest of us). I don't think your experience is necessarily indicative of what effects decisions at ALL firms.

Aqualibrium
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:02 pm

I didn't mean to imply that I had more knowledge than the rest of you. I was just citing my experience as the source of my opinions on the matter. That said, I have hundreds of classmates. I've spoken to and observed many of them throughout the job search process. As I've repeatedly pointed out, you can't make a blanket statement regarding anything employers do because they are all different. However, I stand by my assertion that generally, being married isn't a boost to your employment chances. It's usually nothing more than an interesting note. I've seen first hand people who thought their age or marital status or both would give them a leg up because they would be perceived as being more mature or less apt to flake. It didn't make them any more or less likely to get a job than a single guy who has lived in 6 different cities. Grades, personality, and experience matter; everything else is just an interesting note.


The guy I responded to initially seemed to think that because he was male and willing to commit to a woman he would have some sort of advantage. Do u think employers care that you are a man and you loved your gf so much that you decided to marry her?

olderapplicant
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby olderapplicant » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:10 pm

I don't think getting married during your internship (and thus taking a week or less off) is a big deal - i know a bunch of law school students who got married this summer - but you don't have to take a honeymoon as well (or you could take just a few days so you end up taking only 7-10 days (including weekends). you don't have to take a week honeymoon right away.

ruski
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby ruski » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:04 pm

if anything i would think the single male would have the upper hand. who would a partner rather want, a young amibtious lawyer who is money-hungry and eager to please and climb the ranks, or the married guy who is always rushing home to have dinner with this wife/kids.

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Re: 1L Summer

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:47 pm

ruski wrote:if anything i would think the single male would have the upper hand. who would a partner rather want, a young amibtious lawyer who is money-hungry and eager to please and climb the ranks, or the married guy who is always rushing home to have dinner with this wife/kids.
the single guy would have nothing tying him down to the city, the firm, or even the industry. most likely his only responsibility will be a few years to pay off his loans...then he has a lot of options. consider, on the other hand, a family man. he's got school debt, a mortgage, college tuition to save for, mouths to feed. yeah, he might want to miss a few weekend meetings, but he's going to be under a lot more pressure to keep his job in the long term. that sounds like a more stable and dedicated employee to me.

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rbgrocio
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Re: 1L Summer

Postby rbgrocio » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:49 pm

ruski wrote:if anything i would think the single male would have the upper hand. who would a partner rather want, a young amibtious lawyer who is money-hungry and eager to please and climb the ranks, or the married guy who is always rushing home to have dinner with this wife/kids.




This is why I am never going to make partner anywhere! Not that I was ever interested, but I rather make 75k for the rest of my life and eat dinner with my husband than make 200k and end up getting divorced or with a no-so-happy marriage.




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