Include Law Review on a business card?

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:22 pm

What about the seat number I was assigned in my criminal law class? Since it's a low number, I assume people will be impressed that I was up front and probably paying attention?

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:30 pm

disco_barred wrote:
Matthies wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Matthies wrote:Its been my experience that people who are pretentious will come off that way all by themselves long before you get to the business card exchanging phase. Not so with the alterative, I've talked to and seen some very professional acting folks blow it completely when they write their details on a napkin.

You have to remember to you your a student, to a senior partner who has met you at a professional bar event outside of school you're a future colleague, they are not going think your pretentious if you act as they expect professionals to act and exchange cards.
They might however doubt your professionalism if you have to write you number on the back of some other lawyers card you got five mins ago.

Many lawyers prefer to call you when they have time, not have you call them when they are busy with clients, so often they will ask for your contact info rather than give you theirs. Present it in a professional manor when in a professional setting is my point.


This has been close to the opposite of my experience. It probably has a lot to do with the location you're at, kind of law you're interested in, type of events you go to, etc.

One thing I've noticed from TLS is that what may be gods own truth at a T14, or in the midwest, or at a big city law school, or for those interested in tax, or whatever - might be a horrible piece of advice for groups of students who don't fit that bill. That can cause a lot of ruffled feathers because people don't realize that the way their universe operates isn't the way all universes operate.

So it doesn't surprised me that business cards are useful and expected in some scenarios, but I am still adamant that in my world - replete with networking functions, friendly attorneys, and interviews - a law student carrying a business card would stand out in a bad way.


GTFO 1L :P


GTFO old man ;)


:D

I think the major markets/NYC thing vs. smaller market networking could be credited.

olderapplicant
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby olderapplicant » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:45 pm

Not having a business card does not mean that you have to write your number down on a cocktail napkin. Not having a business card means you get to ask for the lawyer's card or contact info. And then you get to email him or her and send your resume w/o having to wait until they reach out to you (which they can't because they don't have your contact info).

Personally, I think business cards for law students are silly. Esp. for law students who give them out to other law students at the end of summer associate programs!

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Matthies
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby Matthies » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:51 pm

olderapplicant wrote:Not having a business card does not mean that you have to write your number down on a cocktail napkin. Not having a business card means you get to ask for the lawyer's card or contact info. And then you get to email him or her and send your resume w/o having to wait until they reach out to you (which they can't because they don't have your contact info).



Which is exactly why many will ask you for your contact info. They don't want to get tons of unsolicited resumes from law students who think "networking" means meeting someone once then asking that person for a job by e-mail.

drew
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby drew » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:55 pm

when someone gives you a business card, unless they are a tool, or hitting on you, it is because they want you to know how to get in touch with them--pretty much the opposite of pretentious

get some WE

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rayiner
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby rayiner » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:01 pm

olderapplicant wrote:Not having a business card does not mean that you have to write your number down on a cocktail napkin. Not having a business card means you get to ask for the lawyer's card or contact info. And then you get to email him or her and send your resume w/o having to wait until they reach out to you (which they can't because they don't have your contact info).

Personally, I think business cards for law students are silly. Esp. for law students who give them out to other law students at the end of summer associate programs!


I think the fact that law students think business cards is silly is silly. In the grown up world pre-law-school I'd trade business cards all the time. It wasn't a "oh I'm so important I have a business card" thing so much as a "hay call me dood" thing. Heck my company had them printed up for us.

Re: the summer associate thing. Yes, possibly douchey, but the fact that it's considered douchey is pretty silly. I'd rather have a stack of business cards I can peruse at my leisure than be like "oh hay, friend me on facebook. Search for rayiner. How do you spell that? arr-ayee-wai-eye-enn-eee-arr. No, enn as in nuclear."

awesomepossum
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby awesomepossum » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:05 pm

rayiner wrote:
olderapplicant wrote:Not having a business card does not mean that you have to write your number down on a cocktail napkin. Not having a business card means you get to ask for the lawyer's card or contact info. And then you get to email him or her and send your resume w/o having to wait until they reach out to you (which they can't because they don't have your contact info).

Personally, I think business cards for law students are silly. Esp. for law students who give them out to other law students at the end of summer associate programs!


I think the fact that law students think business cards is silly is silly. In the grown up world pre-law-school I'd trade business cards all the time. It wasn't a "oh I'm so important I have a business card" thing so much as a "hay call me dood" thing. Heck my company had them printed up for us.

Re: the summer associate thing. Yes, possibly douchey, but the fact that it's considered douchey is pretty silly. I'd rather have a stack of business cards I can peruse at my leisure than be like "oh hay, friend me on facebook. Search for rayiner. How do you spell that? arr-ayee-wai-eye-enn-eee-arr. No, enn as in nuclear."


It could be that law students aversion to business cards is silly. But if enough people think it's silly, it's likely a bad idea regardless. FYI....you're again not in the grown up world.

270910
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby 270910 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:05 pm

rayiner wrote:
olderapplicant wrote:Not having a business card does not mean that you have to write your number down on a cocktail napkin. Not having a business card means you get to ask for the lawyer's card or contact info. And then you get to email him or her and send your resume w/o having to wait until they reach out to you (which they can't because they don't have your contact info).

Personally, I think business cards for law students are silly. Esp. for law students who give them out to other law students at the end of summer associate programs!


I think the fact that law students think business cards is silly is silly. In the grown up world pre-law-school I'd trade business cards all the time. It wasn't a "oh I'm so important I have a business card" thing so much as a "hay call me dood" thing. Heck my company had them printed up for us.

Re: the summer associate thing. Yes, possibly douchey, but the fact that it's considered douchey is pretty silly. I'd rather have a stack of business cards I can peruse at my leisure than be like "oh hay, friend me on facebook. Search for rayiner. How do you spell that? arr-ayee-wai-eye-enn-eee-arr. No, enn as in nuclear."


People saying "business cards aren't douchey; I used them all the time in my business!" always confuses me. I don't think anybody has ever argued that a business card is inappropriate in a business context. But it's more expected in social functions AND your business provides them for you. If all law school started supplying all law students with business cards, the douche quotient would go down there as well.

but a law student with a business card is an oxymoron unless they work part time. What you have at that point is a law student with a calling card, or a douche card, or an accepted local practice contact card. No judgment, because some have ways different from our own diversity yay we're all a rainbow of love etc., but it's very different from the work environment.

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thepunisher24
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby thepunisher24 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:06 pm

NYAssociate wrote:Law Review on the business card? Let's step back a bit. Why on earth do you have a business card? No one important wants it. Trash it and save your money for beer.


This. Realistically, they'll probably trash it anyway. If you really want them to have your contact info, ask for their business card/contact info, and send them an e-mail within the following few days thanking them for their time, advice, guidance, whatever...

drew
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby drew » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:07 pm

awesomepossum wrote:it's silly, it's likely a bad idea regardless. FYI....you're again not in the grown up world.

tweens routinely make 3k/week :roll:

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rayiner
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby rayiner » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:08 pm

awesomepossum wrote:
rayiner wrote:
olderapplicant wrote:Not having a business card does not mean that you have to write your number down on a cocktail napkin. Not having a business card means you get to ask for the lawyer's card or contact info. And then you get to email him or her and send your resume w/o having to wait until they reach out to you (which they can't because they don't have your contact info).

Personally, I think business cards for law students are silly. Esp. for law students who give them out to other law students at the end of summer associate programs!


I think the fact that law students think business cards is silly is silly. In the grown up world pre-law-school I'd trade business cards all the time. It wasn't a "oh I'm so important I have a business card" thing so much as a "hay call me dood" thing. Heck my company had them printed up for us.

Re: the summer associate thing. Yes, possibly douchey, but the fact that it's considered douchey is pretty silly. I'd rather have a stack of business cards I can peruse at my leisure than be like "oh hay, friend me on facebook. Search for rayiner. How do you spell that? arr-ayee-wai-eye-enn-eee-arr. No, enn as in nuclear."


It could be that law students aversion to business cards is silly. But if enough people think it's silly, it's likely a bad idea regardless. FYI....you're again not in the grown up world.


Oh I agree with you, I'm just saying I find the cult of uniformity among law students kind of baffling.

drew
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby drew » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:09 pm

law students =/= hiring partners

showNprove
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby showNprove » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:11 pm

I didn't realize paying tuition to produce shitty, 12-page essays on tort fact-patterns qualified you as a businessman. I thought most people with business cards were paid for some sort of valued service.

Having a business card as a law student is almost as pretentious as driving a Jaguar as a law student, which apparently one of the new 1L's in my complex is doing.

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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby awesomepossum » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:15 pm

showNprove wrote:I didn't realize paying tuition to produce shitty, 12-page essays on tort fact-patterns qualified you as a businessman. I thought most people with business cards were paid for some sort of valued service.

Having a business card as a law student is almost as pretentious as driving a Jaguar as a law student, which apparently one of the new 1L's in my complex is doing.


You don't like my Jag? You're gonna hate my other ride.

Image

olderapplicant
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby olderapplicant » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:20 pm

Matthies wrote:
olderapplicant wrote:Not having a business card does not mean that you have to write your number down on a cocktail napkin. Not having a business card means you get to ask for the lawyer's card or contact info. And then you get to email him or her and send your resume w/o having to wait until they reach out to you (which they can't because they don't have your contact info).



Which is exactly why many will ask you for your contact info. They don't want to get tons of unsolicited resumes from law students who think "networking" means meeting someone once then asking that person for a job by e-mail.


if they are going to contact you anyway than they should not care if you have their contact information and will contact them first. if they refuse to give it to you for fear that they will get an unsolicited resume - well then it seems not much has been lost.
i'd rather have their contact info and reach out to them directly versus sitting around and waiting for them to (maybe) contact me. who knows if they misplace your card, forget, etc. Having their contact info gives you the ability to take the next step towards a productive networking opportunity. Yes, if you just email them with your resume and say please hire me - well that is probably not going to work. But if you email as a follow up to an earlier conversation and ask for a meeting, call, etc. - well then you might get lucky.

If you ask for their contact info and they say no - well how interested can they be in talking to you. I can't believe that they would say no because they want to call you on their own time. Often, at least in my experience, they are not available when you call them the first time. But, they are not afraid to say - sorry I am busy can you call me back at x time. Or you can send an email asking to set up a time so you won't call them when they are busy.

I am certainly no expert but I don't think not having a business card makes you any less professional.

edited: I want to add one more thought. It seems that your networking experience has been significantly different from mine. But, it my experience, I am basically the one networking, the law student needing "help" starting his career. The lawyer I am talking with has no real incentive to reach out to me once he gets back to the office other than to be a nice guy. And unless you are just absolutely awesome or have some great personal connection, he will probably forget about you five minutes after he met you. I've been on both sides of networking/recruiting stuff and even when I've met incredible candidates, I barely remember their name at the end of the event (especially if I've met a few great candidates). If I get business cards from students I usually trash them b/c I am give out my contact - I'd rather have someone be proactive and email me if they really want some career help. So if they email me with a resume then my memory is refreshed and at that point I can reach back out to them (when I have some free time). As a student, it makes sense that I would take a lawyer's contact information and follow up with him, rather than the other way around.

sbalive
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby sbalive » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:50 pm

Yeah, I've thought about it, and I think business cards are a good idea after all, and I'll probably get them at some point during 2L. I think part of my resistance was that I had a real job before, and I was just self-conscious about being a student now, also getting some sense of what's going on by finishing 1L and working for the summer helps.

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Matthies
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby Matthies » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:48 pm

olderapplicant wrote:
Matthies wrote:
olderapplicant wrote:Not having a business card does not mean that you have to write your number down on a cocktail napkin. Not having a business card means you get to ask for the lawyer's card or contact info. And then you get to email him or her and send your resume w/o having to wait until they reach out to you (which they can't because they don't have your contact info).



Which is exactly why many will ask you for your contact info. They don't want to get tons of unsolicited resumes from law students who think "networking" means meeting someone once then asking that person for a job by e-mail.


if they are going to contact you anyway than they should not care if you have their contact information and will contact them first. if they refuse to give it to you for fear that they will get an unsolicited resume - well then it seems not much has been lost.
i'd rather have their contact info and reach out to them directly versus sitting around and waiting for them to (maybe) contact me. who knows if they misplace your card, forget, etc. Having their contact info gives you the ability to take the next step towards a productive networking opportunity. Yes, if you just email them with your resume and say please hire me - well that is probably not going to work. But if you email as a follow up to an earlier conversation and ask for a meeting, call, etc. - well then you might get lucky.

If you ask for their contact info and they say no - well how interested can they be in talking to you. I can't believe that they would say no because they want to call you on their own time. Often, at least in my experience, they are not available when you call them the first time. But, they are not afraid to say - sorry I am busy can you call me back at x time. Or you can send an email asking to set up a time so you won't call them when they are busy.

I am certainly no expert but I don't think not having a business card makes you any less professional.

edited: I want to add one more thought. It seems that your networking experience has been significantly different from mine. But, it my experience, I am basically the one networking, the law student needing "help" starting his career. The lawyer I am talking with has no real incentive to reach out to me once he gets back to the office other than to be a nice guy. And unless you are just absolutely awesome or have some great personal connection, he will probably forget about you five minutes after he met you. I've been on both sides of networking/recruiting stuff and even when I've met incredible candidates, I barely remember their name at the end of the event (especially if I've met a few great candidates). If I get business cards from students I usually trash them b/c I am give out my contact - I'd rather have someone be proactive and email me if they really want some career help. So if they email me with a resume then my memory is refreshed and at that point I can reach back out to them (when I have some free time). As a student, it makes sense that I would take a lawyer's contact information and follow up with him, rather than the other way around.


I actually don't disagree with any of this explanation. But that's not what you said above, you went from buiness card to e-mail resume, which unfortuinely IS what most law students think networking is. They thinks it's all about THEM, they think why on earth would a lawyer want to be friends with a law students?

That's in part because where most law students meet lawyers, school events, its expected. Putting yourself out in the profession, he profession you want to work in after school (or do work in during school) is different in that people may guenualinly share interests with you and want to mentor you for no other reason than they like mentoring and you happen to the only law student with enough balls to get out of school and actually go mix it up with them on their terms.

The rest I agree with you compealty, but people need to sperate this artificial networking wine and cheese at school events bullshit from professional networking like Inns of Court where even as a student your expected to act like a professional.
Likewise I've meet a few students whom I've been able to refer for jobs or to other lawyers who meeting might help them to eventually land a job. In my rolodex all of these students have one thing in common, I still have their info precisely because they gave me a card I could file away. Maybe I don't know anyone today, or this week, or next week, but if I do come across a lead I got their info (and the notes to myself I wrote on their card afterwards) in my file.

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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:55 pm

As a rising 2L who has had a business card since December of my first year, I don't understand all the hate. A well placed, tastefully delivered business card can do wonders. On several occasions I have met an attorney who didn't have a card on him at the time. Being able to hand over a card with all my information has been great in those situations. Additionally, every time this has happened the attorney has contacted me the next business day.

I appreciate that in certain situations (after an interview, after a random conversation, etc...) handing someone a business card as a 1L could be considered "douchey," but I think its silly to say that there is something wrong with having a business card at all.

I was fortunate enough to get multiple offers and two paid summer associate positions at great firms. A couple of the offers I got were from firms that my grades may not have carried me to, but an attorney I gave my business card to kept in contact and made sure that my resume got seen by the decision makers.

Like anything else, business cards can be good or bad. If you're judicious and tactful though, I dont see how having one could hurt you.


As to the question of law review on a business card; don't be a douche.

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Matthies
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby Matthies » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:As a rising 2L who has had a business card since December of my first year, I don't understand all the hate. A well placed, tastefully delivered business card can do wonders. On several occasions I have met an attorney who didn't have a card on him at the time. Being able to hand over a card with all my information has been great in those situations. Additionally, every time this has happened the attorney has contacted me the next business day.

I appreciate that in certain situations (after an interview, after a random conversation, etc...) handing someone a business card as a 1L could be considered "douchey," but I think its silly to say that there is something wrong with having a business card at all.

I was fortunate enough to get multiple offers and two paid summer associate positions at great firms. A couple of the offers I got were from firms that my grades may not have carried me to, but an attorney I gave my business card to kept in contact and made sure that my resume got seen by the decision makers.

Like anything else, business cards can be good or bad. If you're judicious and tactful though, I dont see how having one could hurt you.


As to the question of law review on a business card; don't be a douche.


Thank you for your input and for giving real world examples from personal experience on the topic at hand. However, this is TLS, where conjecture and speculation by those who have never done the thing they speak as experts on rules the day, thus you will be ignored, ridiculed and placed in the corner to be ogled at. :twisted:

Danteshek
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby Danteshek » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:30 pm

Why hasn't anyone mentioned that law school business cards are great for picking up girls? If they contact you, then you know they're interested. This has happened to me multiple times.

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dresden doll
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby dresden doll » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:36 pm

Danteshek wrote:Why hasn't anyone mentioned that law school business cards are great for picking up girls? If they contact you, then you know they're interested. This has happened to me multiple times.


Perhaps no one has mentioned it because this is a legal employment rather than a lounge thread. Just a thought.

Danteshek
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby Danteshek » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:43 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Danteshek wrote:Why hasn't anyone mentioned that law school business cards are great for picking up girls? If they contact you, then you know they're interested. This has happened to me multiple times.


Perhaps no one has mentioned it because this is a legal employment rather than a lounge thread. Just a thought.


Why so serious?

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Matthies
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby Matthies » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:44 pm

Danteshek wrote:Why hasn't anyone mentioned that law school business cards are great for picking up girls? If they contact you, then you know they're interested. This has happened to me multiple times.


Matthies wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Matthies wrote:But since none of you care abut that reasoning, here's one that might appeal to you: impress ungrad chicks at bars.

This is why I'm getting business cards.


Anyone who's ever talked to a girl w/o giving a credit number first knows that a business card in a bar = not impressive.


You need to pair it with this:

The Amercian Bar Assn credit card

--ImageRemoved--

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dresden doll
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby dresden doll » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:49 pm

Danteshek wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
Danteshek wrote:Why hasn't anyone mentioned that law school business cards are great for picking up girls? If they contact you, then you know they're interested. This has happened to me multiple times.


Perhaps no one has mentioned it because this is a legal employment rather than a lounge thread. Just a thought.


Why so serious?


Because I'm stressed to hell and back with my bidlist, frankly. I've been trolling this forum all day for useful info.

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20160810
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Re: Include Law Review on a business card?

Postby 20160810 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:50 pm





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