Journal question

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wannabealonghorn
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Journal question

Postby wannabealonghorn » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:33 pm

For OCI purposes, do you think ranks for secondary journals matter? Or are all secondary journals looked upon as same?

I am referring to ranks on http://lawlib.wlu.edu/LJ/

Thanks for your answers in advance.

270910
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Re: Journal question

Postby 270910 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:35 pm

Rank doesn't matter even a little bit. All secondary journals will be viewed the same.

If it relates to an interest of yours that the firm specializes in, it's a nice talking point. There is a slim chance your OCI interviewer will be an alum of one journal or another. Beyond that, legal journals are utterly irrelevant to practicing attorneys and I'd be shocked if more than a handful even knew such "rankings" existed for secondary journals. It's Flagship School Law Review/Journal > everything else. Within everything else there's rarely any kind of distinction seen by employers, though students will know who gravitates where, who is more or less selective, etc.

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Matthies
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Re: Journal question

Postby Matthies » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:38 pm

wannabealonghorn wrote:For OCI purposes, do you think ranks for secondary journals matter? Or are all secondary journals looked upon as same?

I am referring to ranks on http://lawlib.wlu.edu/LJ/

Thanks for your answers in advance.


No, I don't think they matter. Best thing would be that the journal your on covers the practice area your applying for at the job. If not then just play up your writing and editing experience. If you asking because you have not yet joined a journal then my advice is to pick one based on the above, if it's an area you want to practice, pick that one, if not pick the one that will let you publish the most.

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General Tso
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Re: Journal question

Postby General Tso » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:44 pm

how difficult is it to get on to a secondary journal?

270910
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Re: Journal question

Postby 270910 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:49 pm

General Tso wrote:how difficult is it to get on to a secondary journal?


At some schools it's literally impossible not to. You just sign up and you're on.

Some schools have competitions where 80-90%+ get on a secondary, making it potentially awkward/notable to not get on but not especially distinguishing to get on.

Some schools only have slots for 20-30%.

At all law schools* law review is between ~10 and ~20% of any given class year, with the 10-15% range being the most common.

*Except Yale. I think like 130% of all Yale students are on YLJ.

wannabealonghorn
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Re: Journal question

Postby wannabealonghorn » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:59 pm

Thanks for the great advice guys!

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General Tso
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Re: Journal question

Postby General Tso » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:02 pm

disco_barred wrote:
At all law schools* law review is between ~10 and ~20% of any given class year, with the 10-15% range being the most common.


this is kinda crazy to think about, but at my rather large (~400 per class) law school, there should be something like 100 students on the flagship journal. do they really have enough work to go around?

270910
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Re: Journal question

Postby 270910 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:05 pm

General Tso wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
At all law schools* law review is between ~10 and ~20% of any given class year, with the 10-15% range being the most common.


this is kinda crazy to think about, but at my rather large (~400 per class) law school, there should be something like 100 students on the flagship journal. do they really have enough work to go around?


mhm. It's a very inefficient process. Every article is usually reviewed for submission, but into pieces, given to editors who must check the bluebooking of every citation, check the style/syntax/grammar/spelling, pull a copy of every citation, verify the citation, submit it to a higher level editor for compilation, get edited for content / style / bla at the higher level, sent back and forth to the author a few times, formatted, laid out, and set in the issue. And most flagship law journals publish several times per year (6+) rather than the 1, 2, or 4 times per year common for secondary journals, so there's more work coming in on a constant basis.

westbayguy
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Re: Journal question

Postby westbayguy » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:14 pm

disco_barred wrote:
General Tso wrote:how difficult is it to get on to a secondary journal?


At some schools it's literally impossible not to. You just sign up and you're on.

Some schools have competitions where 80-90%+ get on a secondary, making it potentially awkward/notable to not get on but not especially distinguishing to get on.

Some schools only have slots for 20-30%.

At all law schools* law review is between ~10 and ~20% of any given class year, with the 10-15% range being the most common.

*Except Yale. I think like 130% of all Yale students are on YLJ.



I assume you meant YLJ @ 30%, which historically sounds about right- but reports on TLS this year suggest a 20-25% rate. It is certanly not true that everyone that applies gets on- as has often been rumored here.

Anonymous User
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Re: Journal question

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:42 pm

Some secondary journals are more established than others, though. At my school, there are secondary journals that just started two years ago and other that have been around for decades. Also, some of the secondaries are listed in the bluebook (while others aren't). Wouldn't you think that it would be better to be on a journal that is listed in the bluebook by name rather than an anonymous journal that is not in the bluebook?

Renzo
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Re: Journal question

Postby Renzo » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Some secondary journals are more established than others, though. At my school, there are secondary journals that just started two years ago and other that have been around for decades. Also, some of the secondaries are listed in the bluebook (while others aren't). Wouldn't you think that it would be better to be on a journal that is listed in the bluebook by name rather than an anonymous journal that is not in the bluebook?

There are an infinite number of journals in the world, and no one has heard of any of them (except the one they worked on). It really, really doesn't matter.

270910
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Re: Journal question

Postby 270910 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:01 pm

westbayguy wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
General Tso wrote:how difficult is it to get on to a secondary journal?


At some schools it's literally impossible not to. You just sign up and you're on.

Some schools have competitions where 80-90%+ get on a secondary, making it potentially awkward/notable to not get on but not especially distinguishing to get on.

Some schools only have slots for 20-30%.

At all law schools* law review is between ~10 and ~20% of any given class year, with the 10-15% range being the most common.

*Except Yale. I think like 130% of all Yale students are on YLJ.



I assume you meant YLJ @ 30%, which historically sounds about right- but reports on TLS this year suggest a 20-25% rate. It is certanly not true that everyone that applies gets on- as has often been rumored here.


No, I meant what I wrote. There are more Yale students on YLJ than there are Yale students. FACT.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Journal question

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Some secondary journals are more established than others, though. At my school, there are secondary journals that just started two years ago and other that have been around for decades. Also, some of the secondaries are listed in the bluebook (while others aren't). Wouldn't you think that it would be better to be on a journal that is listed in the bluebook by name rather than an anonymous journal that is not in the bluebook?

Do you really expect a firm recruiter to cite-check your resume?

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Matthies
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Re: Journal question

Postby Matthies » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Some secondary journals are more established than others, though. At my school, there are secondary journals that just started two years ago and other that have been around for decades. Also, some of the secondaries are listed in the bluebook (while others aren't). Wouldn't you think that it would be better to be on a journal that is listed in the bluebook by name rather than an anonymous journal that is not in the bluebook?


Well the last time I opened the bluebook was like 3 years ago. Most of the lawyers I know its been longer than that. I could not tell you what's listed in there, nor would I bother to look it up. Besides the respective rank of your secondary journal tells me NOTHING about you as an individual, show me what skills you have form the journal, writing, editing, publications, that what I would care about in hiring someone. I mean if the deal breaker comes down to your secondary journal is raked 96th and the other dudes is like 47th, then your resume/cover letter/interview skills are not doing much for you.

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Matthies
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Re: Journal question

Postby Matthies » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:10 pm

I will say the topical journals, especially those that tend to have more articles written by practitioners and are on a specific practice area segment are read by practicing lawyers. Subscriptions is how many secondary journals get allot of their funding and thus try to present info that people in the practice actually use and will pay money to get. Flagship journals get more money from the school and tend to publish stuff only law professors care about.

Hence why I say if the journal is in an area you want to practice, take that journal. If you publish something on the subject it WILL come up in an interview, it also makes a somewhat decent targeted writing sample (I'm personally so-so on edited work as writing samples) but if you are applying for practice area X and you have a publication on practice area X, its stupid not to include/highlight it.

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rbgrocio
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Re: Journal question

Postby rbgrocio » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:16 pm

General Tso wrote:how difficult is it to get on to a secondary journal?



At my school? Impossible!!! Cuz we got none! You either get a spot to law review through write on or ur out!

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Matthies
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Re: Journal question

Postby Matthies » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:18 pm

rbgrocio wrote:
General Tso wrote:how difficult is it to get on to a secondary journal?



At my school? Impossible!!! Cuz we got none! You either get a spot to law review through write on or ur out!


Really that sucks! Start one. A classmate of mine 1L year started a blog/journal with a professor that became kinda of a big deal all over the counrty when it covered a big fed case day by day and now its like one of the most popular to try out for.

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rbgrocio
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Re: Journal question

Postby rbgrocio » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:23 pm

Matthies wrote:
rbgrocio wrote:
General Tso wrote:how difficult is it to get on to a secondary journal?



At my school? Impossible!!! Cuz we got none! You either get a spot to law review through write on or ur out!


Really that sucks! Start one. A classmate of mine 1L year started a blog/journal with a professor that became kinda of a big deal all over the counrty when it covered a big fed case day by day and now its like one of the most popular to try out for.



Yeah... my friend just met with a professor to try to start one but she was either not very convincing or the professor was not interested. I'm on law review and I will be trying out for trial team, so I am not interested in having a secondary journal. I'm just saying that it sucks for those who can't make moot court or get a spot through write on since we don't have grade-on either.

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PKSebben
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Re: Journal question

Postby PKSebben » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:43 pm

disco_barred wrote:Rank doesn't matter even a little bit. All secondary journals will be viewed the same.

If it relates to an interest of yours that the firm specializes in, it's a nice talking point. There is a slim chance your OCI interviewer will be an alum of one journal or another. Beyond that, legal journals are utterly irrelevant to practicing attorneys and I'd be shocked if more than a handful even knew such "rankings" existed for secondary journals. It's Flagship School Law Review/Journal > everything else. Within everything else there's rarely any kind of distinction seen by employers, though students will know who gravitates where, who is more or less selective, etc.


rgr that

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thuggishruggishbone
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Re: Journal question

Postby thuggishruggishbone » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:51 pm

Just inform the interviewer of your secondary journal's rank--maybe you could mention it in the cover letter.




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