EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

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hlsstudent2012
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EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby hlsstudent2012 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:36 am

Hi there,

I'm a rising 2L at HLS who has 3 H's and 7 P's (just below the median) and want to work in NYC next summer at a BigLaw Firm. I'm pretty flexible about practice area. For EIP, I was thinking of starting to bid around Allen & Overy/Fried Frank/Freshfields (which are V35ish firms) and then working my way down the rankings lists, hitting targets and then some safeties.

Any input on this strategy/approach would be much appreciated!

Thanks a lot

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sophia.olive
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Re: EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby sophia.olive » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:46 am

retake the lsat

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OperaSoprano
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Re: EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:59 am

Please keep your advice constructive in here, and use the anonymous feature only as designed.

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rayiner
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Re: EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby rayiner » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:04 am

Overly conservative, and dangerous considering it'll keep you from bidding on V25s with big summer classes. Your targets should be those firms, with the rest of the V50 and a few V100s as safeties.

hlsstudent2012
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Re: EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby hlsstudent2012 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:32 am

so where do you think a better place to start would be? clifford-chance? a little bit above that?

though what you mentioned about the size of summer classes make sense, i guess i'm equally concerned about being too optimistic given the state of the economy and "wasting" bids.

thanks for your help

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rayiner
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Re: EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby rayiner » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:56 am

hlsstudent2012 wrote:so where do you think a better place to start would be? clifford-chance? a little bit above that?

though what you mentioned about the size of summer classes make sense, i guess i'm equally concerned about being too optimistic given the state of the economy and "wasting" bids.

thanks for your help


Selectivity does not decrease predictably with Vault ranking. The whole "go down the Vault list and bid" is just stupid so forget about it.

You have to identify the firms where you have a shot. This requires GPA/callback data. If you don't have this for HLS see if you can get it for CLS/etc. As a rough proxy, CLS placed 35% V25 this past year, so medianish at HLS should have non-V10 V25 reaches. Talking places like Paul Weiss, etc. Once you figure out where your reaches/safeties are, you need to look at class sizes. V50-100 seems unselective, but they hire very few people, so if you focus on those instead of big V50s you're doing yourself a disservice.

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Re: EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby 270910 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:01 am

rayiner wrote:
hlsstudent2012 wrote:so where do you think a better place to start would be? clifford-chance? a little bit above that?

though what you mentioned about the size of summer classes make sense, i guess i'm equally concerned about being too optimistic given the state of the economy and "wasting" bids.

thanks for your help


Selectivity does not decrease predictably with Vault ranking. The whole "go down the Vault list and bid" is just stupid so forget about it.

You have to identify the firms where you have a shot. This requires GPA/callback data. If you don't have this for HLS see if you can get it for CLS/etc. As a rough proxy, CLS placed 35% V25 this past year, so medianish at HLS should have non-V10 V25 reaches. Talking places like Paul Weiss, etc. Once you figure out where your reaches/safeties are, you need to look at class sizes. V50-100 seems unselective, but they hire very few people, so if you focus on those instead of big V50s you're doing yourself a disservice.


Took the words right out of my mouth / typing fingers. This is exactly what I would recommend.

The best strategy, which as far as I can tell few employ, is to 1) get as much data on firm hiring at your school and others at possible, which likely requires "back channel" communication, 2) use that instead of the vault rankings to approximate selectivity, and 3) focus on the size of the firm in your targeted market + the historical summer class sizes. Once you have that information, you should be much better equipped to maximize your success at OCI.

hlsstudent2012
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Re: EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby hlsstudent2012 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:45 pm

tentative list i put together based on summer class sizes, selectivity stats, vault rankings, etc. the list is not ordered yet (the numbers refer to the vault ranking). any feedback on the list, additional suggestions would be much appreciated. thanks a bunch.


15 Latham & Watkins LLP 7.212 Los Angeles, CA
16 Sidley Austin LLP 7.088 Chicago, IL
18 Jones Day 6.927 Washington, DC
19 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan LLP 6.844 Los Angeles, CA
20 White & Case LLP 6.777 New York, NY
21 Arnold & Porter LLP 6.775 Washington, DC
22 Shearman & Sterling LLP 6.751 New York, NY
23 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP 6.742 New York, NY
25 Ropes & Gray LLP 6.618 Boston, MA
30 Linklaters LLP (US) 6.457 New York, NY
32 Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP 6.267 New York, NY
33 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker LLP 6.265 New York, CA
34 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP 6.188 Washington, DC
36 Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP 6.170 New York, NY
38 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP (US) 6.122 New York, NY
40 Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP 6.060 New York, NY
46 Proskauer Rose LLP 5.916 New York, NY
47 Dewey & LeBoeuf LLP 5.887 New York, NY
56 Bingham McCutchen LLP 5.639 Boston, MA
57 Dechert LLP 5.603 New York, NY
65 Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP 5.319 New York, NY
70 Kaye Scholer LLP 5.123 New York, NY
80 Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP 4.773 New York, NY
85 Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP 4.697 New York, NY
88 Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP 4.592 New York, NY
90 Patterson Belknap Webb & Tyler LLP 4.540 New York, NY
91 Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP 4.513 New York, NY
Not Ranked Brown Rudnick

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rayiner
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Re: EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby rayiner » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:13 pm

hlsstudent2012 wrote:tentative list i put together based on summer class sizes, selectivity stats, vault rankings, etc. the list is not ordered yet (the numbers refer to the vault ranking). any feedback on the list, additional suggestions would be much appreciated. thanks a bunch.


15 Latham & Watkins LLP 7.212 Los Angeles, CA
16 Sidley Austin LLP 7.088 Chicago, IL
18 Jones Day 6.927 Washington, DC
19 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan LLP 6.844 Los Angeles, CA
20 White & Case LLP 6.777 New York, NY
21 Arnold & Porter LLP 6.775 Washington, DC
22 Shearman & Sterling LLP 6.751 New York, NY
23 Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP 6.742 New York, NY
25 Ropes & Gray LLP 6.618 Boston, MA
30 Linklaters LLP (US) 6.457 New York, NY
32 Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP 6.267 New York, NY
33 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker LLP 6.265 New York, CA
34 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP 6.188 Washington, DC
36 Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP 6.170 New York, NY
38 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP (US) 6.122 New York, NY
40 Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP 6.060 New York, NY
46 Proskauer Rose LLP 5.916 New York, NY
47 Dewey & LeBoeuf LLP 5.887 New York, NY
56 Bingham McCutchen LLP 5.639 Boston, MA
57 Dechert LLP 5.603 New York, NY
65 Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP 5.319 New York, NY
70 Kaye Scholer LLP 5.123 New York, NY
80 Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP 4.773 New York, NY
85 Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP 4.697 New York, NY
88 Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP 4.592 New York, NY
90 Patterson Belknap Webb & Tyler LLP 4.540 New York, NY
91 Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP 4.513 New York, NY
Not Ranked Brown Rudnick


Do you have any ties to Boston other than HLS? You should probably bid on Ropes NY instead. Sidley Chicago is both selective and has a pretty small class size, so why them?

Overall pretty solid, but I'd throw in Skadden, Weil, Kirkland NY, Sidley NY as well. I'd also not bother with Arnold & Porter unless you want to e in DC.
Last edited by rayiner on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NYAssociate
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Re: EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby NYAssociate » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:15 pm

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Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hlsstudent2012
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Re: EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby hlsstudent2012 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:48 pm

oops - forgot to mention that i'm applying to the nyc offices of all these firms (so sidley NY not chicago.)

NYAssociate - do you really think that sidley NY is probable? i was under the impression that sidley NY is 70th percentile CLS territory, and thus was likely a long shot for a 45th percentile HLS like myself (which is why i think of it as my farthest reach firm).

thanks for the feedback, its very helpful.

NYAssociate
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Re: EIP Advice - 3 H's, 7 P's, HLS Student [New York City]

Postby NYAssociate » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:50 pm

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