Litigation boutiques

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Anonymous User
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Litigation boutiques

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:10 pm

Hi all --

Putting together a list of firms to bid on at OCI. I'm very interested in litigation, and my summer experience at a firm confirmed that interest.

I'm looking for some lit boutiques that pay market and have summer programs. It's hard to find a list of reputable lit boutiques, because a lot of them don't end up making the rankings (see: Susman).

My current OCI list (in no particular order; these aren't all lit boutiques, but that's part of the reason I'm asking):

WIlliams Connolly
Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn
Boies Schiller
Quinn Emanuel
Keker & Van Nest
Kirkland Ellis
Skadden
MTO
Kasowitz Benson
Susman Godfrey
Arnold & Porter
Cleary
O'Melveny

---

Lots of those are reaches (I'm probably right at the cusp of top 1/3 at a t6), but I received an offer to come back to the firm at which I worked this summer, so I can reach a bit (although I'd still like some "good chance" boutiques).

Thanks a lot!

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Cavalier
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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby Cavalier » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:21 pm

I've found that most of the top litigation boutiques don't have summer associate programs. If you keep doing well in law school and secure a good clerkship, you may want to consider Robbins Russel, Bartlit Beck, Kellogg Huber (LinkRemoved) and Keker & Van Nest (LinkRemoved), to name a few. Here's a link to some more: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202427194586

270910
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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby 270910 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:22 pm

Other than Irell, you seem to have the bases covered.

W&C isn't even worth a bid, that's not even a reach. I think Susman and MTO are similarly selective but they're weird and I'm not sure.

NYAssociate
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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby NYAssociate » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:26 pm

Patterson Belknap?

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:28 pm

disco_barred wrote:Other than Irell, you seem to have the bases covered.

W&C isn't even worth a bid, that's not even a reach. I think Susman and MTO are similarly selective but they're weird and I'm not sure.


OP here: Eh, no reason not to bid. I interview well and have a fairly strong law school resume outside of grades. We get 30+. I have room.

Thanks for the information all!

Also added Gibbs & Bruns to my list.

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby NYAssociate » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:49 pm

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Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vamedic03
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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby vamedic03 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:59 pm

What city do you want to be in? There are plenty of large firms with strong lit practices that you don't have listed

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:09 pm

Are people saying W&C/MTO/et al. wouldn't be worth a bid b/c OP wouldn't get an interview? Or are interviews easy to get, but OP stands no chance of getting called back or hired?

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:23 pm

vamedic03 wrote:What city do you want to be in? There are plenty of large firms with strong lit practices that you don't have listed


OP here:

I hate having to narrow it down by city, because for me it's really more about the firm itself rather than the location. But since we have to abide by OCI etiquette, I'm looking mostly at NYC and DC, with an occasional Texas boutique (undergrad ties to the area) or California.

But my focus is mostly on NYC and DC.

Are people saying W&C/MTO/et al. wouldn't be worth a bid b/c OP wouldn't get an interview? Or are interviews easy to get, but OP stands no chance of getting called back or hired?


Assuming the latter, which is a fair assessment.

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:26 pm

NOT OP here:

I am interested in bidding on many of the same firms as I, too, am interested in litigation (and have a resume that speaks to that preference: USAO, AG, admin. agency, and District Court work experience). I'm around the top 10% or so at CCN, with law review.

Question is: are these considered reaches? Are any absolutely off the table for me? That is, are any essentially wasted bids?

Thanks guys.

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby 270910 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are people saying W&C/MTO/et al. wouldn't be worth a bid b/c OP wouldn't get an interview? Or are interviews easy to get, but OP stands no chance of getting called back or hired?


The firms OP is discussing only attend schools with lotteries, so it has nothing to do with getting an interview. The best schools all have a lottery rather than pre-select system, so your credentials are irrelevant to obtaining interviews.

The reason I bring up not bidding on W&C, which is worth slight elaboration, is that it's as close to impossible as something gets in this world for OP to get hired at W&C. They have a very small class size and, based on data I have seen, never (note that I did not say rarely) call back or hire people outside of the top 15%, and it's overwhelmingly more like top 5%+. OP is free to bid and may well get an interview, but the problem is that for OP it's "just a bid" - but when the dozens of students with no chance at W&C bid on them, it makes it much harder for people who do have a chance to make intelligent choices in their bidding process.

Not a huge deal, but that's why I mentioned it. Obviously for OP it's no problem to toss a bid on it because OP has strong credentials and plenty of other bids for firms that are closer to targets.

In 2006, more than 60 people bid on W&C for less than 4 callbacks from Columbia - and I guarantee you those 4 weren't top thirders with strong pre-LS credentials.

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby 270910 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:NOT OP here:

I am interested in bidding on many of the same firms as I, too, am interested in litigation (and have a resume that speaks to that preference: USAO, AG, admin. agency, and District Court work experience). I'm around the top 10% or so at CCN, with law review.

Question is: are these considered reaches? Are any absolutely off the table for me? That is, are any essentially wasted bids?

Thanks guys.


W&C, Susman, MTO, Wachtell (hey, they do have a big lit department...) and possibly a few others will be reach-y but neither impossible nor a waste of a bid, especially with LR.

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:03 pm

CCN poster from above:

Great! Thanks for the info. Any others that are either "reach-y" or farther out of grasp for me? (I'm thinking, Cravath, Covington, Skadden, DPW, Debevoise, Wilmer, S&C, and basically any other V20 or so that has not already been mentioned).

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby 270910 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:CCN poster from above:

Great! Thanks for the info. Any others that are either "reach-y" or farther out of grasp for me? (I'm thinking, Cravath, Covington, Skadden, DPW, Debevoise, Wilmer, S&C, and basically any other V20 or so that has not already been mentioned).


Covington maybe depending on the location (they're pretty selective in DC). Every other firm you listed shouldn't be hard for you based on grades. You'll have to seal the deal in the interview, you may fit better or worse at various firms, people with better grades than you might have a slightly easier time, etc. Cravath made offers to almost a full 7% of Columbia's class one year, as an example. I really wouldn't consider anything in the V20 outside of W&C and WLRK as "reaches" if you're top 10% + LR at CCN, but I also wouldn't expect 20 offers, you know?

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:58 pm

You know, unless my firm is the only one in the country that is like this, there are some really cool small botique firms not recognized by tons of people that get you litigating right away and, if my estimates are correct, counting bonuses make as much or even more than a first year biglaw associate.

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby smashedpumpkins » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You know, unless my firm is the only one in the country that is like this, there are some really cool small botique firms not recognized by tons of people that get you litigating right away and, if my estimates are correct, counting bonuses make as much or even more than a first year biglaw associate.



How does one find out about these firms? Do they do OCI as well?

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:05 pm

disco_barred wrote:The firms OP is discussing only attend schools with lotteries, so it has nothing to do with getting an interview. The best schools all have a lottery rather than pre-select system, so your credentials are irrelevant to obtaining interviews.

The reason I bring up not bidding on W&C, which is worth slight elaboration, is that it's as close to impossible as something gets in this world for OP to get hired at W&C. They have a very small class size and, based on data I have seen, never (note that I did not say rarely) call back or hire people outside of the top 15%, and it's overwhelmingly more like top 5%+. OP is free to bid and may well get an interview, but the problem is that for OP it's "just a bid" - but when the dozens of students with no chance at W&C bid on them, it makes it much harder for people who do have a chance to make intelligent choices in their bidding process.

Not a huge deal, but that's why I mentioned it. Obviously for OP it's no problem to toss a bid on it because OP has strong credentials and plenty of other bids for firms that are closer to targets.

In 2006, more than 60 people bid on W&C for less than 4 callbacks from Columbia - and I guarantee you those 4 weren't top thirders with strong pre-LS credentials.


You are forgetting that many elite firms take part in off-campus interview programs, which involve preselects (not bids).

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:10 pm

smashedpumpkins wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You know, unless my firm is the only one in the country that is like this, there are some really cool small botique firms not recognized by tons of people that get you litigating right away and, if my estimates are correct, counting bonuses make as much or even more than a first year biglaw associate.



How does one find out about these firms? Do they do OCI as well?


I got EXTREMELY lucky with my firm. No, they'd never do OCI. They are kind of a "come knock on our door and show us what you've got" kind of firm. You can, however, find a firm like this if you look at the writing on the wall plastered everywhere, especially in local newspapers.

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby smashedpumpkins » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
smashedpumpkins wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You know, unless my firm is the only one in the country that is like this, there are some really cool small botique firms not recognized by tons of people that get you litigating right away and, if my estimates are correct, counting bonuses make as much or even more than a first year biglaw associate.



How does one find out about these firms? Do they do OCI as well?


I got EXTREMELY lucky with my firm. No, they'd never do OCI. They are kind of a "come knock on our door and show us what you've got" kind of firm. You can, however, find a firm like this if you look at the writing on the wall plastered everywhere, especially in local newspapers.


Just out of curiosity, do they regularly (every year? every 2 years?) hire entry-level attorneys? Are they as credential driven as some of the other places listed? (W&C, MTO, Susman, etc.)

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby NYAssociate » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:13 pm

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Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

smashedpumpkins
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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby smashedpumpkins » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:15 pm

NYAssociate wrote:You don't go to wachtell for lit. You go there for corporate or money.



They do quite a lot of antitrust/merger review work. And don't the lit people get paid the same bonuses as corp?

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby NYAssociate » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:21 pm

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Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A'nold
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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby A'nold » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:25 pm

smashedpumpkins wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
smashedpumpkins wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You know, unless my firm is the only one in the country that is like this, there are some really cool small botique firms not recognized by tons of people that get you litigating right away and, if my estimates are correct, counting bonuses make as much or even more than a first year biglaw associate.



How does one find out about these firms? Do they do OCI as well?


I got EXTREMELY lucky with my firm. No, they'd never do OCI. They are kind of a "come knock on our door and show us what you've got" kind of firm. You can, however, find a firm like this if you look at the writing on the wall plastered everywhere, especially in local newspapers.


Just out of curiosity, do they regularly (every year? every 2 years?) hire entry-level attorneys? Are they as credential driven as some of the other places listed? (W&C, MTO, Susman, etc.)


No dude, I'm talking really local, really small firms started by ex-biglaw guys that branch out on their own and do trial work on high profile cases. At my firm, they would hire a barely accreditted student if they liked them. It is not credential oriented at all b/c it is not corporate, i.e., you work closely with the founding attorney and he cares more about work product and personality than anything else. In fact, when I was being interviewed, they kept telling me how grades (I had very good grades) do not translate to performance.

The firm is growing and they seem to be hiring 1 or 2 entry level attorneys each year. I believe they plan on expanding quicker into the future. But, the salary is crazy good when you factor in bonuses and the work is very satisfying.

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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:39 pm

Two of my friend's dads work at Susman Godfrey. They are a tremendously impressive firm, but their stated top 10 percent interview rule has always been interesting to me. Do other firms have stated rules?

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vamedic03
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Re: Litigation boutiques

Postby vamedic03 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:What city do you want to be in? There are plenty of large firms with strong lit practices that you don't have listed


OP here:

I hate having to narrow it down by city, because for me it's really more about the firm itself rather than the location. But since we have to abide by OCI etiquette, I'm looking mostly at NYC and DC, with an occasional Texas boutique (undergrad ties to the area) or California.

But my focus is mostly on NYC and DC.

Are people saying W&C/MTO/et al. wouldn't be worth a bid b/c OP wouldn't get an interview? Or are interviews easy to get, but OP stands no chance of getting called back or hired?


Assuming the latter, which is a fair assessment.



If you're looking at DC - then look at Hogan, Steptoe, etc.

If you're looking at NYC - Debevoise, Patterson Belknap, etc




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