How important is 1L summer job?

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Mich33
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How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Mich33 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:34 am

Hey all! I have a quick question that I hope the wise minds of TLS will help me answer.

I have been working at a tiny firm (only 4 lawyers) for almost 2 years now. It's in my hometown and where I went to college. Next week, I will be moving 12 hours away to attend a T30 law school. On my last day of work, one of the lawyers approached me and offered me a job for next summer (the summer after 1L). It's a paid position and I'd make almost double what I make now. The firm I work for is in the process of expanding and they plan on doing OCI at the local tier 2 this August but they said the job is mine if I want it. So, I'm not sure what to do. I don't know whether I want to come home and work there after law school because I don't think the pay would be enough to cover the loans I'm taking out. Would I be an idiot to turn down a paid 1L position in an area where I would have very little expenses (I'd live at home)? Or is it stupid to take a position somewhere I don't want to work when I graduate unless I have no other options?

Thanks for any help y'all give. I know that in this economy, I should probably be thankful they're willing to pay me next summer.

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dvd
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby dvd » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:36 am

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Last edited by dvd on Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Danteshek
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Danteshek » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:38 am

First of all, thank him. The most important thing is to do something legal after 1L. So this fits the bill. You can, depending on the strength of your relationship, ask him for some time to think about it. But chances are this will be your best option.

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vanwinkle
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:39 am

What's most important about 1L summer work is that you have a 1L summer job. If you have a paid gig lined up already, by all means, take the money and run. It won't hurt you at all.

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Mich33
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Mich33 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:40 am

Should I assume that my chances of getting a paid job (or any job at all) elsewhere are pretty slim?

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como
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby como » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:42 am

My god, take it. You could be working in TTT law firm LPP, bumfucksville, NB and firms in NY will not care. The experiences and skills you gain are what matter.

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como
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby como » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:43 am

Mich33 wrote:Should I assume that my chances of getting a paid job (or any job at all) elsewhere are pretty slim?


You should assume that chances of getting a paid job elsewhere are nonexistent.

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vanwinkle
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:43 am

Mich33 wrote:Should I assume that my chances of getting a paid job (or any job at all) elsewhere are pretty slim?

For 1L summer? Slim to none. Coming from a T14, most of my classmates did not get paid work 1L summer, unless they were RAs for a professor. Paid 1L jobs are becoming a thing of myth and legend.

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Mich33
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Mich33 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:48 am

Thanks! You all made my decision really easy!

Flanker1067
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Flanker1067 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:54 am

Mich33 wrote:Thanks! You all made my decision really easy!



I wish I had a 1L summer job lined up already. Especially paying.

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Mich33
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Mich33 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:56 am

Flanker1067 wrote:
Mich33 wrote:Thanks! You all made my decision really easy!



I wish I had a 1L summer job lined up already. Especially paying.


Yea, I dunno why but I thought that usually where you spent your 1L summer is where you end up working. I guess it doesn't matter though!

270910
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby 270910 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:06 pm

Mich33 wrote:
Flanker1067 wrote:
Mich33 wrote:Thanks! You all made my decision really easy!



I wish I had a 1L summer job lined up already. Especially paying.


Yea, I dunno why but I thought that usually where you spent your 1L summer is where you end up working. I guess it doesn't matter though!


Nope, that's 2L summer. The overwhelming majority of 1Ls, even from top schools, work for free where they can get taken or are RAs for profs (not a bad gig, but also not great exposure to the market).

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pjo
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby pjo » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:08 pm

would this advice hold if one were offered a similiar deal at a small Personal Injury firm in a small town? OP, I'm in almost the same position. Thing is, I really don't want to work PI after graduation. I thought I'd be able to find a job in the city where my school is considering many 1L's at the school have found work (albeit unpaid) in the city over the summer. The only plus is that I would most likely get a pretty decent amount of litigation experience (prepping/discovery etc). at the PI firm. My thinking was an unpaid position in a field I actually hope to work in > a paid position in a field I know I don't want to work in. What do you all think?

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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby 270910 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:24 pm

pjo wrote:would this advice hold if one were offered a similiar deal at a small Personal Injury firm in a small town? OP, I'm in almost the same position. Thing is, I really don't want to work PI after graduation. I thought I'd be able to find a job in the city where my school is considering many 1L's at the school have found work (albeit unpaid) in the city over the summer. The only plus is that I would most likely get a pretty decent amount of litigation experience (prepping/discovery etc). at the PI firm. My thinking was an unpaid position in a field I actually hope to work in > a paid position in a field I know I don't want to work in. What do you all think?


You may be correct from the bird's eye view. But what you do 1L summer can only ever make a difference on the margins. So many things are more important, and it is so unnecessary. If you also want to work at the small PI firm and would get paid, I would do it. Applying for 1L jobs is an uber stressful, never ending, crapshooty crap shoot. Yeah, if you get a 4.4 and a LoR from half your faculty by December you'll kick yourself for taking the PI gig - but you know what they say about the bird in hand...

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vanwinkle
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:28 pm

pjo wrote:would this advice hold if one were offered a similiar deal at a small Personal Injury firm in a small town? OP, I'm in almost the same position. Thing is, I really don't want to work PI after graduation. I thought I'd be able to find a job in the city where my school is considering many 1L's at the school have found work (albeit unpaid) in the city over the summer. The only plus is that I would most likely get a pretty decent amount of litigation experience (prepping/discovery etc). at the PI firm. My thinking was an unpaid position in a field I actually hope to work in > a paid position in a field I know I don't want to work in. What do you all think?

Take the PI firm job. Best case scenario, you'll get valuable litigation experience that you can talk about during interviews with law firms, and that'll be a plus for you if you really want to do litigation. Worst case, you had a paid 1L job and want to do something else after, which is fine, many people do different things 2L summer than what they did 1L. The important thing either way is getting work experience during 1L, where you get it doesn't make a huge difference for the most part.

Anonymous User
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:19 pm

A question in relation to this thread: I have a family friend who made partner at a firm in the V100. This person invited me to reach out to him for a position for my 1L summer, although he immediately said he doesn't have that kind of pull for a 1L SA (understandably so).

I'm a bit unfamiliar with what options might be available to me. Has anybody worked a 1L summer in a big firm, but not hired on as an SA? If so, what did you do? Was it helpful in building up a resume? How did your work differ from the SAs?

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Matthies
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Matthies » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:45 pm

disco_barred wrote:
Mich33 wrote:
Flanker1067 wrote:
Mich33 wrote:Thanks! You all made my decision really easy!



I wish I had a 1L summer job lined up already. Especially paying.


Yea, I dunno why but I thought that usually where you spent your 1L summer is where you end up working. I guess it doesn't matter though!


Nope, that's 2L summer.


And that was back in 2007. :P What was the number i just saw the other day, sub 50% offer rate for 2L SAs this summer.

OP take this freaking job, keep in conaact over the summer and come back and work your ass off. Just becuase the firm you pratice at over 1L summer does not do waht you want to do does not mean the lawyers you are working for don't know people who do.

And for the love of god people do some freaking research about what lawyers do/get jobs. This is scary to see all these threads, I bet everyone one of you could arrtle off to me all top 50 law schools in oder, but have no clue what lawyers actaully do or how they do it. If you have decied on a law school that, and geting that, should be the thing you research more than anything else. Its like people stop doing research on a profesion they want to enter as soon as they pick a school and just think the rest just sort of happens. It don't folks.

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Waterman47
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Waterman47 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:17 pm

Would like to reiterate what everyone else said: take the job and run.

Reasons:

1) It doesn't matter where you work in the legal field after 1L, as long as you are employed somewhere.

2) No guarantee at all that you'll land any sort of firm job elsewhere. Not worth the gamble to look for a better one.

3) While many classmates will be putting off studying to look for jobs during the semester, you'll have one already lined up.

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General Tso
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby General Tso » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:25 pm

Waterman47 wrote:Would like to reiterate what everyone else said: take the job and run.

Reasons:

1) It doesn't matter where you work in the legal field after 1L, as long as you are employed somewhere.

2) No guarantee at all that you'll land any sort of firm job elsewhere. Not worth the gamble to look for a better one.

3) While many classmates will be putting off studying to look for jobs during the semester, you'll have one already lined up.


when people make fun of Waterman is it you or D.H20man

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Waterman47
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Waterman47 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:26 pm

General Tso wrote:
Waterman47 wrote:Would like to reiterate what everyone else said: take the job and run.

Reasons:

1) It doesn't matter where you work in the legal field after 1L, as long as you are employed somewhere.

2) No guarantee at all that you'll land any sort of firm job elsewhere. Not worth the gamble to look for a better one.

3) While many classmates will be putting off studying to look for jobs during the semester, you'll have one already lined up.


when people make fun of Waterman is it you or D.H20man


DKDC

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Mich33
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Mich33 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:30 pm

Matthies wrote:And that was back in 2007. :P What was the number i just saw the other day, sub 50% offer rate for 2L SAs this summer.

OP take this freaking job, keep in conaact over the summer and come back and work your ass off. Just becuase the firm you pratice at over 1L summer does not do waht you want to do does not mean the lawyers you are working for don't know people who do.

And for the love of god people do some freaking research about what lawyers do/get jobs. This is scary to see all these threads, I bet everyone one of you could arrtle off to me all top 50 law schools in oder, but have no clue what lawyers actaully do or how they do it. If you have decied on a law school that, and geting that, should be the thing you research more than anything else. Its like people stop doing research on a profesion they want to enter as soon as they pick a school and just think the rest just sort of happens. It don't folks.


I have done my research and I've worked in this firm for 2 years so I do know what lawyers do (hence my desire to enter the legal profession). I just didn't know if taking a job at a firm would reduce my chances of being hired elsewhere after graduation. The bolded is great advice but there was no need for the little rant at the end.

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Matthies
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Matthies » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:35 pm

Mich33 wrote:
Matthies wrote:And that was back in 2007. :P What was the number i just saw the other day, sub 50% offer rate for 2L SAs this summer.

OP take this freaking job, keep in conaact over the summer and come back and work your ass off. Just becuase the firm you pratice at over 1L summer does not do waht you want to do does not mean the lawyers you are working for don't know people who do.

And for the love of god people do some freaking research about what lawyers do/get jobs. This is scary to see all these threads, I bet everyone one of you could arrtle off to me all top 50 law schools in oder, but have no clue what lawyers actaully do or how they do it. If you have decied on a law school that, and geting that, should be the thing you research more than anything else. Its like people stop doing research on a profesion they want to enter as soon as they pick a school and just think the rest just sort of happens. It don't folks.


I have done my research and I've worked in this firm for 2 years so I do know what lawyers do (hence my desire to enter the legal profession). I just didn't know if taking a job at a firm would reduce my chances of being hired elsewhere after graduation. The bolded is great advice but there was no need for the little rant at the end.


The little rant at the end is for other people reading this thread who have not done what you have done.

texasforever
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby texasforever » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:13 pm

I worked for a small firm full time for three summers during undergrad and clerked for a district judge in the other. As someone who is about to be a 1L, do you think having four years of legitimate legal work on the resume will provide an advantage over someone in the same grade range (top15% at a T50 for instance) that has never had a job or internship in the legal field?

270910
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby 270910 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:15 pm

texasforever wrote:I worked for a small firm full time for three summers during undergrad and clerked for a district judge in the other. As someone who is about to be a 1L, do you think having four years of legitimate legal work on the resume will provide an advantage over someone in the same grade range (top15% at a T50 for instance) that has never had a job or internship in the legal field?


Of course it will!

(Be carefully about calling what you did 'clerking' - a lot of people throw the term around inaccurately, even judges and attorneys. But technically judicial clerks are full time law graduates, and calling anything else 'clerking' could raise some eyebrows).
Last edited by 270910 on Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Matthies
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Re: How important is 1L summer job?

Postby Matthies » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:29 pm

disco_barred wrote:
texasforever wrote:I worked for a small firm full time for three summers during undergrad and clerked for a district judge in the other. As someone who is about to be a 1L, do you think having four years of legitimate legal work on the resume will provide an advantage over someone in the same grade range (top15% at a T50 for instance) that has never had a job or internship in the legal field?


Of course it will!

(Be carefully about calling what you did 'clerking' - a lot of people through the term around inaccurately, even judges and attorneys. But technically judicial clerks are full time law graduates, and calling anything else 'clerking' could raise some eyebrows).


Agree 100% with the first part.

The second part is regional to a degree, and not as common at the city/county level in many states. Here city and county judges have judicial clerks, but they are not lawyers. The city/county does not pay enough for them to hire attorneys for clerks, nor do the local rules require you to be an attorney to clerk. As an aside this is a common misunderstanding with "doc review" because in NYC the bar ethics rules require a lawyer and only a lawyer to review certain types of documents. hence NYC firms must hire lawyers to do doc review, and lots of them. Other jurisdictions allow those same types of documents to be reviewed by paralegals, so the type of doc review sweatshops people love to refer to in TLS jargon don't exist equally everywhere. As well some places, again regionally, refer to any legal work, like at a firm, done by a law student as 'clerking" not just for judges. This comes from the old days when you clerked for a laywer to learn the law rather then went to law school. radom useless knownladge I have collected over the years. Like you know why they call them "hornbooks"? Cuase in the old days the covers used to be decorated with horn.




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