OCI Bidding for Median at Hastings Forum

[Anonymous User]

Though OCI is probably a long shot, I was curious as to what similiarly situated individuals at peer schools would consider the appropriate bidding strategy. Would it be prudent to double bid on less prestigious firms, or just bid where I would be interested in working and hope for the best.

I know its not incredibly liklely that anything would come out of this, I just want to try to best maximize my chances and was curious what everyone though the best strategy would be.

If anybody has any idea, how many interviews (even courtesty) ones someone in my position would be likely to obtain, that would be of great help. Career Services is very vague in answering these sorts of questions.

Thanks for any and all (constructive) help. I am by no means limiting my search to OCI, but would just like some guidance as to what would be the best strategy.

[270910]

God these threads are annoying.

1) Does your school even require you to make decisions with respect to bidding? I don't mean to be a prick, but almost every school outside of the top 14-20 or so has a pre-select process where you just apply to all of the firms coming and they select anybody they want to interview with. If that is the case, my advice is you bid on anything that happens to be a law firm and avoid using your OCI bids on things such as rocks or ebay items.

2) You will get exactly (I'm not making this up) as many interviews as you get. Not one more, not one less. If it's one, well, you'll have one interview then won't you! If it's four dozen, you should clock in at about 48 interviews. What good could knowing in advance POSSIBLY do you? I understand that everyone - myself included - is quite curious and nervous about our futures. I don't understand what utility there is behind asking about it on TLS.

Forgive the snark. I like to help, and will if I'm off base or you have a more particular question, but this just seems ridiculous and has been getting on my nerves lately.

[LSATrocks]

Well, the issue with Hastings is that they use a hybrid system, where 70% are employer selected, and the other 30% are school imposed selections on the employer.

I guess, what I was asking and I'm sorry if this has been asked before but I didn't really see anything terribly on point w/r to Hastings, or peer schools for that matter, what is the best way to bid. Given that Hastings is in a saturated legal market with two schools ahead of it, what is the most conservative or results-oriented approach to bidding for someone in my position.

The fact that 30% is basically random interviews makes it incredibly hard for someone in my shoes, who is arguably partially qualified to even be interviewing for these jobs to begin with, difficult to discern what is a firm-select (so they are actually interested to some degree) and what is not.

I'm sorry this if this is unclear, but I'm just trying to understand the best way to maximize my interview opportunities with the hand I have. Thanks, sorry if this was annoying or what not.

[Kohinoor]

Well, the issue with Hastings is that they use a hybrid system, where 70% are employer selected, and the other 30% are school imposed selections on the employer.

I guess, what I was asking and I'm sorry if this has been asked before but I didn't really see anything terribly on point w/r to Hastings, or peer schools for that matter, what is the best way to bid. Given that Hastings is in a saturated legal market with two schools ahead of it, what is the most conservative or results-oriented approach to bidding for someone in my position.

The fact that 30% is basically random interviews makes it incredibly hard for someone in my shoes, who is arguably partially qualified to even be interviewing for these jobs to begin with, difficult to discern what is a firm-select (so they are actually interested to some degree) and what is not.

I'm sorry this if this is unclear, but I'm just trying to understand the best way to maximize my interview opportunities with the hand I have. Thanks, sorry if this was annoying or what not.

TLS posters are overwhelmingly useless 0Ls. There is very little utility in requesting advice here.

[270910]

Well, the issue with Hastings is that they use a hybrid system, where 70% are employer selected, and the other 30% are school imposed selections on the employer.

I guess, what I was asking and I'm sorry if this has been asked before but I didn't really see anything terribly on point w/r to Hastings, or peer schools for that matter, what is the best way to bid. Given that Hastings is in a saturated legal market with two schools ahead of it, what is the most conservative or results-oriented approach to bidding for someone in my position.

The fact that 30% is basically random interviews makes it incredibly hard for someone in my shoes, who is arguably partially qualified to even be interviewing for these jobs to begin with, difficult to discern what is a firm-select (so they are actually interested to some degree) and what is not.

I'm sorry this if this is unclear, but I'm just trying to understand the best way to maximize my interview opportunities with the hand I have. Thanks, sorry if this was annoying or what not.

No problemo. Bid on the least selective firms. All of them, from least selective to xth least selective in your market of choice, where x is your number of bids. Ask career services for that information, TLS doesn't have it.

I should charge by the hour for this.

[HAMBONE]

Well, the issue with Hastings is that they use a hybrid system, where 70% are employer selected, and the other 30% are school imposed selections on the employer.

I guess, what I was asking and I'm sorry if this has been asked before but I didn't really see anything terribly on point w/r to Hastings, or peer schools for that matter, what is the best way to bid. Given that Hastings is in a saturated legal market with two schools ahead of it, what is the most conservative or results-oriented approach to bidding for someone in my position.

The fact that 30% is basically random interviews makes it incredibly hard for someone in my shoes, who is arguably partially qualified to even be interviewing for these jobs to begin with, difficult to discern what is a firm-select (so they are actually interested to some degree) and what is not.

I'm sorry this if this is unclear, but I'm just trying to understand the best way to maximize my interview opportunities with the hand I have. Thanks, sorry if this was annoying or what not.

No problemo. Bid on the least selective firms. All of them, from least selective to xth least selective in your market of choice, where x is your number of bids. Ask career services for that information, TLS doesn't have it.

I should charge by the hour for this.

+1. There is no point bidding on a firm you have no shot at and then awkwardly sitting through a 20 minute interview with someone who has no intention of hiring you. The odds of someone impressing the interviewer so much that they forget about the grades are incredibly low and probably not worth wasting a bid on.

[General Tso]

what kind of jobs are you applying for? PI? IP? Govt?

most firms i have looked at are top 33% req.

[General Tso]

you know what I do if I see a thread I consider useless? click back and continue with my day.

OP I am glad to discuss Hastings OCI

[Anonymous User]

you know what I do if I see a thread I consider useless? click back and continue with my day.

OP I am glad to discuss Hastings OCI

I appreciate the offer. I'm just curious as to, what a slightly above median student with basically no work experience, and a decent gig this summer, should shoot for at OCI.

A lot of the firms do have 1/3 requirements, a lot don't really list any requirements, and some list 3.0, LJ/LR/MC preferred, etc. I'm just curious, if firms at OCI, as a matter of practice, are really even willing to give someone in my position a decent look, not just an interview.

General Tsao; do you have any idea in the past what someone in my position or in a similiar position can expect in terms of number of interviews, callbacks, etc. I'm thinking about double bidding on what look like some of the less competitive firms and was curious to see if people thought this was a viable strategy.

Also, does anybody have any idea what percentage of students actually compete in OCI?

Thanks for any help.

[Anonymous User]

I'm not particularly interested in government, more in the business litigation, transactional type work, not necessarily Biglaw (not that I really have a shot though).

[hithere]

Hard to say--what are your softs (i.e., moot court/journal)?

[General Tso]

I appreciate the offer. I'm just curious as to, what a slightly above median student with basically no work experience, and a decent gig this summer, should shoot for at OCI.

A lot of the firms do have 1/3 requirements, a lot don't really list any requirements, and some list 3.0, LJ/LR/MC preferred, etc. I'm just curious, if firms at OCI, as a matter of practice, are really even willing to give someone in my position a decent look, not just an interview.

General Tsao; do you have any idea in the past what someone in my position or in a similiar position can expect in terms of number of interviews, callbacks, etc. I'm thinking about double bidding on what look like some of the less competitive firms and was curious to see if people thought this was a viable strategy.

Also, does anybody have any idea what percentage of students actually compete in OCI?

Thanks for any help.

did you read this yet? --LinkRemoved--

honestly, I think you should bid extremely conservatively. focus on smaller firms, and maybe those that aren't located in the bay area. I saw several firms in places like Sacramento and Fresno. I kind of expect the success rate to be extremely low.

if I were you I wouldnt wait on OCI results. you should be actively promoting yourself to smaller firms throughout the semester for a summer job.

if I had to guess about participation rate for OCI I'd guess about 40-50%.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks, that is kind of what I figured. I very much appreciate the information. Any others with thoughts?

[270910]

PSA: When a firm lists its GPA preference and requirements, you should do the following: Ignore them entirely and mother fucking ask career services.

Firms lie through their god damned teeth on those things, and I want to keep harping on it, because it is VERY IMPORTANT TO YOUR CAREER PROSPECTS. The firms are lying or naive or outsourching their symplicity profiles to India or who knows what, but if you ask a 3 year old with a box of crayons to draw you the cut off for a firm you'll get a better answer than the firms published cutoff on your OCI software.

Firms aren't consistently high, or consistently low - they're just consistently full of shit. A firm that says "top third require" might hire to median, it might hire from the top 3% without exception, and there's even a remote chance it will hire from the top third. But those pieces of data simply cannot be relied upon /at all/. Not even in a cursory way. Not for comparison's sake, not when nothing else will do. You need to completely disregard them, and beg/borrow/steal data from career services. Your (and that's the royal 'your' for everyone out their reading in paranoid law student land) career depends on it.

[Anonymous User]

PSA: When a firm lists its GPA preference and requirements, you should do the following: Ignore them entirely and mother fucking ask career services.

Firms lie through their god damned teeth on those things, and I want to keep harping on it, because it is VERY IMPORTANT TO YOUR CAREER PROSPECTS. The firms are lying or naive or outsourching their symplicity profiles to India or who knows what, but if you ask a 3 year old with a box of crayons to draw you the cut off for a firm you'll get a better answer than the firms published cutoff on your OCI software.

Firms aren't consistently high, or consistently low - they're just consistently full of shit. A firm that says "top third require" might hire to median, it might hire from the top 3% without exception, and there's even a remote chance it will hire from the top third. But those pieces of data simply cannot be relied upon /at all/. Not even in a cursory way. Not for comparison's sake, not when nothing else will do. You need to completely disregard them, and beg/borrow/steal data from career services. Your (and that's the royal 'your' for everyone out their reading in paranoid law student land) career depends on it.

tcr. Your career services should have GPA cutoffs from past students.

[RudeDudewithAttitude]

PSA: When a firm lists its GPA preference and requirements, you should do the following: Ignore them entirely and mother fucking ask career services.

Firms lie through their god damned teeth on those things, and I want to keep harping on it, because it is VERY IMPORTANT TO YOUR CAREER PROSPECTS. The firms are lying or naive or outsourching their symplicity profiles to India or who knows what, but if you ask a 3 year old with a box of crayons to draw you the cut off for a firm you'll get a better answer than the firms published cutoff on your OCI software.

Firms aren't consistently high, or consistently low - they're just consistently full of shit. A firm that says "top third require" might hire to median, it might hire from the top 3% without exception, and there's even a remote chance it will hire from the top third. But those pieces of data simply cannot be relied upon /at all/. Not even in a cursory way. Not for comparison's sake, not when nothing else will do. You need to completely disregard them, and beg/borrow/steal data from career services. Your (and that's the royal 'your' for everyone out their reading in paranoid law student land) career depends on it.

tcr. Your career services should have GPA cutoffs from past students.

Right on Disco. For what it's worth, I asked career services for some kind of cut off information. Career services at my school told me they do not keep that kind of information. They said I should apply to any firm I like and ignore the cut off requirements.

[let/them/eat/cake]

PSA: When a firm lists its GPA preference and requirements, you should do the following: Ignore them entirely and mother fucking ask career services.

Firms lie through their god damned teeth on those things, and I want to keep harping on it, because it is VERY IMPORTANT TO YOUR CAREER PROSPECTS. The firms are lying or naive or outsourching their symplicity profiles to India or who knows what, but if you ask a 3 year old with a box of crayons to draw you the cut off for a firm you'll get a better answer than the firms published cutoff on your OCI software.

Firms aren't consistently high, or consistently low - they're just consistently full of shit. A firm that says "top third require" might hire to median, it might hire from the top 3% without exception, and there's even a remote chance it will hire from the top third. But those pieces of data simply cannot be relied upon /at all/. Not even in a cursory way. Not for comparison's sake, not when nothing else will do. You need to completely disregard them, and beg/borrow/steal data from career services. Your (and that's the royal 'your' for everyone out their reading in paranoid law student land) career depends on it.

tcr. Your career services should have GPA cutoffs from past students.

Right on Disco. For what it's worth, I asked career services for some kind of cut off information. Career services at my school told me they do not keep that kind of information. They said I should apply to any firm I like and ignore the cut off requirements.

so what the F are they getting paid for? to not collect any useful information over a span of time so they can give informed advice? GD incompetents/incompetence.

[OperaSoprano]

PSA: When a firm lists its GPA preference and requirements, you should do the following: Ignore them entirely and mother fucking ask career services.

Firms lie through their god damned teeth on those things, and I want to keep harping on it, because it is VERY IMPORTANT TO YOUR CAREER PROSPECTS. The firms are lying or naive or outsourching their symplicity profiles to India or who knows what, but if you ask a 3 year old with a box of crayons to draw you the cut off for a firm you'll get a better answer than the firms published cutoff on your OCI software.

Firms aren't consistently high, or consistently low - they're just consistently full of shit. A firm that says "top third require" might hire to median, it might hire from the top 3% without exception, and there's even a remote chance it will hire from the top third. But those pieces of data simply cannot be relied upon /at all/. Not even in a cursory way. Not for comparison's sake, not when nothing else will do. You need to completely disregard them, and beg/borrow/steal data from career services. Your (and that's the royal 'your' for everyone out their reading in paranoid law student land) career depends on it.

tcr. Your career services should have GPA cutoffs from past students.

Right on Disco. For what it's worth, I asked career services for some kind of cut off information. Career services at my school told me they do not keep that kind of information. They said I should apply to any firm I like and ignore the cut off requirements.

so what the F are they getting paid for? to not collect any useful information over a span of time so they can give informed advice? GD incompetents/incompetence.

A lot of schools do not release this information to their students (presumably they keep it for their own edification.) In fact, I can think of only a handful of schools that do make GPA cutoffs easy to come by. OP's career services may only be able to offer more generalized help, but might be invaluable for things like resume/cover letter editing and mock interviewing.

[rundoxierun]

A lot of schools do not release this information to their students (presumably they keep it for their own edification.) In fact, I can think of only a handful of schools that do make GPA cutoffs easy to come by. OP's career services may only be able to offer more generalized help, but might be invaluable for things like resume/cover letter editing and mock interviewing.

Ive heard of ppl talking about these kind of services being "invaluable" before in undergrad but I've never really grasped why. Are there special, none common sense ways of editing resumes that you cant really see just by looking at resume sample?? Ive never been to our editing service, just used templates and general tips to do resumes, and now Im wondering if I should maybe schedule something before I graduate this fall.

[Emu Flu]

The IP offerings seem a bit light - especially in the patent prosecution side.

[imchuckbass58]

Thanks for any and all (constructive) help. I am by no means limiting my search to OCI, but would just like some guidance as to what would be the best strategy.

As other posters have said, try to figure out the least selective firms (either through career services or older students) and apply to them.

The thing I would add, however, is you should try to tailor it somewhat to your strengths/backgrounds if your prior experience allows you to demonstrate interest in a particular area of law. For instance if you've done tons of criminal defense work, it might be worth bidding on more selective firms that do a lot of crim law versus less selective firms that do all transactional (I am making up the practice areas here - I know relatively few big firms do criminal besides white collar).

[BioLaw]

I went through the process last year, and can answer any specific questions you have. From median it's obviously going to be tough to get interviews at the large firms, but you have a decent shot at some smaller firms and local government (PD, DA, etc.).

[Kohinoor]

A lot of schools do not release this information to their students (presumably they keep it for their own edification.) In fact, I can think of only a handful of schools that do make GPA cutoffs easy to come by. OP's career services may only be able to offer more generalized help, but might be invaluable for things like resume/cover letter editing and mock interviewing.

Ive heard of ppl talking about these kind of services being "invaluable" before in undergrad but I've never really grasped why. Are there special, none common sense ways of editing resumes that you cant really see just by looking at resume sample?? Ive never been to our editing service, just used templates and general tips to do resumes, and now Im wondering if I should maybe schedule something before I graduate this fall.

The most valuable service career services provides is by far those cutoffs.