wealth from being an associate

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eddietx12
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby eddietx12 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:15 am

leron wrote:your analysis wasn't perfect but made some sense until all of a sudden you threw out 90% expenses just so you could have the joy of saying 10% savings rate.

I didn't say 90% to assert 10%, -3% is the true national savings rate as of March '10. I get 10k per year savings on 90k post-tax income over the first seven years by the following Math:

7k take home per month
-2k student loans
-3k mortgage+utilities+insurance
-1k other costs
= 1k savings per month

And yes, over a 7 year associate career, you will have a 7k per month take home even if you include bonuses - assuming a 50% tax AND assuming you make big law.

The mortgage as an investment is a fine argument to make if you consider real estate as a sensible long-term dollar cost averaged fixed-interest rate inflation-beating investment, heck - with superinflation all but a certainty, I'd say a 6% deal for 30 years is a fine investment, sure, whatever, get your mortgage - you're going to probably get a HELOC and update your garage just to keep up with the Joneses anyway, then there's home insurance, HOA fees, property taxes, maintenance, warranty, its just such a horrible investment compared to the S&P 500, which is a toilet investment anyway. Sure, mortgage counts I guess.

eddietx12
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby eddietx12 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:18 am

ok so 50% may be too high, whatever, 40%, I assure you my $1k in "lifestyle" expenses per month in my savings Math is wayyyyyyyyy stupider than anything I've ever said on this forum.

You will mingle with lawyers, and god forbid, clients - who are much richer than lawyers in general - and you'll spennnnnnnd it away homie.

sbalive
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby sbalive » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:19 am

I have no idea why I'm contributing to this retarded fail of a thread, except that I'm bitter to find no actually useful information in the "Legal Employment" forum ahead of bidding season :evil:

Anyway, $70K is well above median net worth for the typical age someone would be at that point (33-ish), and if they're married to someone with a similar financial position, I'm pretty sure they would be comfortably above 25th percentile as a household.

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enygma
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby enygma » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:20 am

eddietx12 wrote:ok so 50% may be too high, whatever, 40%, I assure you my $1k in "lifestyle" expenses per month in my savings Math is wayyyyyyyyy stupider than anything I've ever said on this forum.

You will mingle with lawyers, and god forbid, clients - who are much richer than lawyers in general - and you'll spennnnnnnd it away homie.


so the solution is to give up a career you love to go to your basement and create retarded inventions that create no actual value and won't pan out?

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doyleoil
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby doyleoil » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:20 am

sbalive wrote:I have no idea why I'm contributing to this retarded fail of a thread, except that I'm bitter to find no actually useful information in the "Legal Employment" forum ahead of bidding season :evil:


you're on the wrong site for that

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PSLaplace
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby PSLaplace » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:21 am

eddietx12 wrote:
PSLaplace wrote:
Expenses (student loans, mortgage scam, wife, etc., = 90%), marginal rate of saving = 0.10
An average national savings rate is considered to be 10%


It's not even remotely accurate to apply the average savings rate to the top 5% of income earners. Economics 101 tells you that an actor's marginal propensity to save increases as his salary increases.


Um, average national savings is nowhere close to 10%, its more like -3% right now. I'm being pretty damn generous at 10%.


Um, then maybe you shouldn't specify 10% as the national average.

What kinda expenses do you think you're gonna have pulling in 7k a month post tax averaged over 7 years? 5k after student loans, 3k after mortgage/insurance/utilities, 1k after the "lifestyle", there's your 10k per year in savings.

Not that crazy is it.


5K/month in student loans? x 12 months x 7 years? Who the hell owes $420,000 in (discounted value) loans?

You would have to borrow $180,000 at an insane interest rate of 1.13%--and then not pay back a dime for seven years--to arrive at such an absurd figure. And let's not forget interest on student loans is tax-deductible.

If you change your mind and go to law school, I implore you: don't be a tax lawyer.

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Ty Webb
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby Ty Webb » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:22 am

Life failure coming to a message board talking downing a situation that he would kill for, then talking to himself repeatedly. Throw in the "I'm going to ________ <--insert unrealistic dream here" rhetoric and it looks like we are hosting one of the most pathetic people to ever grace the internet. That's saying something, too.

eddietx12
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby eddietx12 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:23 am

sbalive wrote:I have no idea why I'm contributing to this retarded fail of a thread, except that I'm bitter to find no actually useful information in the "Legal Employment" forum ahead of bidding season :evil:

Anyway, $70K is well above median net worth for the typical age someone would be at that point (33-ish), and if they're married to someone with a similar financial position, I'm pretty sure they would be comfortably above 25th percentile as a household.

you gonna marry another lawyer?

eddietx12
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby eddietx12 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:23 am

PSLaplace wrote:
eddietx12 wrote:
PSLaplace wrote:
Expenses (student loans, mortgage scam, wife, etc., = 90%), marginal rate of saving = 0.10
An average national savings rate is considered to be 10%


It's not even remotely accurate to apply the average savings rate to the top 5% of income earners. Economics 101 tells you that an actor's marginal propensity to save increases as his salary increases.


Um, average national savings is nowhere close to 10%, its more like -3% right now. I'm being pretty damn generous at 10%.


Um, then maybe you shouldn't specify 10% as the national average.

What kinda expenses do you think you're gonna have pulling in 7k a month post tax averaged over 7 years? 5k after student loans, 3k after mortgage/insurance/utilities, 1k after the "lifestyle", there's your 10k per year in savings.

Not that crazy is it.


5K/month in student loans? x 12 months x 7 years? Who the hell owes $420,000 in (discounted value) loans?

You would have to borrow $180,000 at an insane interest rate of 1.13%--and then not pay back a dime for seven years--to arrive at such an absurd figure. And let's not forget interest on student loans is tax-deductible.

If you change your mind and go to law school, I implore you: don't be a tax lawyer.


I said 2k a month.. 7k became 5k after the 2k loan payment, you misunderstood what i was saying

sbalive
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby sbalive » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:24 am

doyleoil wrote:
sbalive wrote:I have no idea why I'm contributing to this retarded fail of a thread, except that I'm bitter to find no actually useful information in the "Legal Employment" forum ahead of bidding season :evil:


you're on the wrong site for that


The right sites were making me cry. I think I'll go over to archive.org, look at some pages from 2007, and pretend.

leron
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby leron » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:24 am

actually, at a 160k salary and contributing 16.5k per year to your 401k and after 2k in other pretax expenses and the applicable federal, california, medicare, oasdi and ca sdi tax rates you will be taking home $7,059/mo. yes, i have calculated it. note that your 401k contributions mean you are saving 16.5k per year on that basis alone.

GTFO

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romothesavior
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:27 am

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL at your figures.

leron
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby leron » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:28 am

romothesavior wrote:LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL at your figures.


you must mean him, not me

eddietx12
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby eddietx12 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:28 am

leron wrote:actually, at a 160k salary and contributing 16.5k per year to your 401k and after 2k in other pretax expenses and the applicable federal, california, medicare, oasdi and ca sdi tax rates you will be taking home $7,059/mo. yes, i have calculated it. note that your 401k contributions mean you are saving 16.5k per year on that basis alone.

GTFO


well i sure got pwned, i didn't even think about the 401k match shit. Ok, so you earn a lil bit more, I assure you that your mortgage isn't as cool of an investment as you think it is with the property taxes, ridiculous fees, and home owner's insurance in there.

And oh yeah, don't have babies ever.

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romothesavior
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:30 am

Referring to OP.

leron
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby leron » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:34 am

eddietx12 wrote:well i sure got pwned, i didn't even think about the 401k match shit. Ok, so you earn a lil bit more, I assure you that your mortgage isn't as cool of an investment as you think it is with the property taxes, ridiculous fees, and home owner's insurance in there.

And oh yeah, don't have babies ever.


actually, that is without even considering an employer's match. that's just employee contributions. boy, 25% employer matching will make it just that much better.

and about mortgages, somebody else was right that you're putting money into an investment. sure, it might go down, but, on average, it will go up x% annually like any other average asset. say 8% per year. then consider the tax-free gain which you'll likely qualify for. if you're in the 35% tax bracket, that's a much better investment than your average 8% per year asset.

plus, the mortgage interest and real estate taxes are deductible so that will reduce your tax liability further. you'll be out of pocket more on a monthly basis, but the tax free gain will put your ahead assuming you make gains comparable to other options.

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Cosmo Kramer
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby Cosmo Kramer » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:34 am

eddietx12 wrote:this algorithm has a lot of value in it.

1) attach a wi-fi add-on to your cable box, connects to home network
2) download and install software given by cable provider, which does exactly what big-brother Google does to you (spies on your shit)
3) Comcast sells this information to a third party for a fafillion dollars to American corporations who want to use this info to replace the common-ads you get alongwith your neighbor - with tailormade ads for your personalized interests that the Comcast box uploads from its software over the Wifi network.
4) people who willingly+knowingly download+install this software get a sizeable subscription fee discount.


This is a whole system that I'm working on from my basement, and I'm going to make a LOT of money one day. This is not a patentable invention, you're combining existing technology in an obvious way to those skilled in the art. This shit likely exists in some form or another.

The smart-ad shit hasn't taken off on television because TV doesn't interact with the customer. I'm going to make TV interact with the customer indirectly by backdooring info using this Comcast-software.

I don't care about detailing my idea on this web-site because everybody on here is real angsty to get on the hamster-wheel that is biglaw, where the hamster gets more treats based on how long he runs on the wheel.


This sounds like a great idea. I too am into brainstorming business ideas. My bladder system for oil tankers would have ended maritime oil spills! The gulf accident has shifted attention to the actual drills, though, so now I'm thinking about going with the make your own pizza shop. Whatdya think?

eddietx12
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby eddietx12 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:37 am

well whateva dude, im not an accountant, im just making numbers up clearly - a lot of this is hand-waving, but there's gotta be some truth to my numbers, I'm not making up a figure of 7k (takehome) minus 2k (student loans) minus 3k (mrtg+ homs ins + prop tax + repair) minus 2k (lifestyle) = 0k take home.

2k lifestyle per month isn't crazy, it might sound like it to law "students," but I can assure you $2000 can be spent pretty quickly on a monthly basis. I have personally never spent that much money in a month, but you will once you become a lawyer.

Hell you'll spend that much on auto insurance, gas, and groceries in California, hahahahaha.
Last edited by eddietx12 on Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

leron
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby leron » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:39 am

well, i am a cpa. and i have calculated all this shit including how long it will take to pay off student loans. everyone should have before they got into it.

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Ty Webb
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby Ty Webb » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:40 am

eddietx12 wrote:
leron wrote:actually, at a 160k salary and contributing 16.5k per year to your 401k and after 2k in other pretax expenses and the applicable federal, california, medicare, oasdi and ca sdi tax rates you will be taking home $7,059/mo. yes, i have calculated it. note that your 401k contributions mean you are saving 16.5k per year on that basis alone.

GTFO


well i sure got pwned, i didn't even think about the 401k match shit. Ok, so you earn a lil bit more, I assure you that your mortgage isn't as cool of an investment as you think it is with the property taxes, ridiculous fees, and home owner's insurance in there.

And oh yeah, don't have babies ever.


No one said a mortgage is a "cool" investment. They simply corrected your assertion that a mortgage was some sort of "sunk" cost of living. It's not.

eddietx12
Posts: 50
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby eddietx12 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:42 am

Ty Webb wrote:
eddietx12 wrote:
leron wrote:actually, at a 160k salary and contributing 16.5k per year to your 401k and after 2k in other pretax expenses and the applicable federal, california, medicare, oasdi and ca sdi tax rates you will be taking home $7,059/mo. yes, i have calculated it. note that your 401k contributions mean you are saving 16.5k per year on that basis alone.

GTFO


well i sure got pwned, i didn't even think about the 401k match shit. Ok, so you earn a lil bit more, I assure you that your mortgage isn't as cool of an investment as you think it is with the property taxes, ridiculous fees, and home owner's insurance in there.

And oh yeah, don't have babies ever.


No one said a mortgage is a "cool" investment. They simply corrected your assertion that a mortgage was some sort of "sunk" cost of living. It's not.


I think investing in ticker symbol SPY is a better investment than paying off a 6% loan, property taxes, insurance, etc (costs that the SPY instrument doesn't have). Just keep buying SPY per month instead of making your mortgage payment, and live in some stupid rental and treat that as your taxes/insurance costs. the US public equity market >>> US real estate over a long period of time, look at the numbers

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romothesavior
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:45 am

eddietx12 wrote:well whateva dude, im not an accountant, im just making numbers up clearly - a lot of this is hand-waving, but there's gotta be some truth to my numbers, I'm not making up a figure of 7k (takehome) minus 2k (student loans) minus 3k (mrtg+ homs ins + prop tax + repair) minus 2k (lifestyle) = 0k take home.


Where are you getting this 7k take-home number? That's assuming a tax of 50%?
Where are you getting this 2k per month lifestyle?
You aren't factoring in bonuses, which can be tens of thousands of dollars.
How's about getting an apartment and paying 1k a month tops on rent?

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Ty Webb
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby Ty Webb » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:46 am

eddietx12 wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:
eddietx12 wrote:
leron wrote:actually, at a 160k salary and contributing 16.5k per year to your 401k and after 2k in other pretax expenses and the applicable federal, california, medicare, oasdi and ca sdi tax rates you will be taking home $7,059/mo. yes, i have calculated it. note that your 401k contributions mean you are saving 16.5k per year on that basis alone.

GTFO


well i sure got pwned, i didn't even think about the 401k match shit. Ok, so you earn a lil bit more, I assure you that your mortgage isn't as cool of an investment as you think it is with the property taxes, ridiculous fees, and home owner's insurance in there.

And oh yeah, don't have babies ever.


No one said a mortgage is a "cool" investment. They simply corrected your assertion that a mortgage was some sort of "sunk" cost of living. It's not.


I think investing in ticker symbol SPY is a better investment than paying off a 6% loan, property taxes, insurance, etc (costs that the SPY instrument doesn't have). Just keep buying SPY per month instead of making your mortgage payment, and live in some stupid rental and treat that as your taxes/insurance costs. the US public equity market >>> US real estate over a long period of time, look at the numbers



Yeah, but this isn't the fucking Sims game. This is life, and I'd rather own my own home than screw with a landlord.

And guess what, the salary provided (hypothetically) by a big firm will allow me to do that...comfortably (especially given your massive monthly housing allotment).

fenway
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby fenway » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:48 am

OP should have condensed all this bullshit to come back towards his principal proposal--that you won't (necessarily) be accruing bank rolls and flippin straight cash homey while blowing coke off blonde strippers in your estranged wife's Escalade. If one was willing to take it easy and live on the light side (and why not, you'll be working all the time anyways) so one could pay off loans/invest some paper, the numbers OP proposed might seem to be a little gloom-i-fied. If you act like a f*cking moron with your money, you will not be a baller. If you are a baller with your money, you won't act like a f*cking moron. It's pretty damn hard to fuck up your finances when you are getting paid space money. lower the pretentious expectations for a few years, drag out college life a little longer-shits more fun than getting some Bro-pad on your own where you can (almost) bring cute girls back but then theyll ask why you have a heart shaped bed and then they leave and you are left thinking,...."BECAUSE ITS SEXY".

I shed no tears for your hypothetical sad story. Manage a college budget for 3-5 yrs. You'd be out of debt, and up the ranks on the partner chain. Also, we are all fucking hamsters running in balls, don't try to make that a distinction solely for Big Law

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romothesavior
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Re: wealth from being an associate

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:56 am

The entitled, whiny bitch attitude of our generation is staggering.




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