Proper Networking

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Patriot1208
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Proper Networking

Postby Patriot1208 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:24 pm

So my boss knows a couple of the AUSA's in my area, not well but enough that they would recgonize his name. I'm interested in seeing if I can sit down with one of them or see what they do on a daily basis for a couple days and my boss even said he wouldn't count it as leave if I took a day or two to go over there. My question is how to go about this and does it seem intrusive? I don't want to impose myself upon these guys as i'm sure they are busy. Any suggestions? And please don't flame just because i'm in still in undergrad.

Also, if I do contact them should I call or email?

Anonymous User
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Re: Proper Networking

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:45 pm

Before I answer your questions let me say this: Do not do this.

Since you will probably go ahead and do this, follow these steps to minimize the damage.

1. You ask your Boss to talk to the Attorney on your behalf. The conversation between B and A should go something like this: "Hey A, I have a guy that works for me that is interested in going to law school down the road. Would you be willing to meet or talk to Student about law school and the practice of law? Would it be okay if I passed along your phone number to S?" If A gives B the go ahead, you call A in a timely fashion and politely ask for a little bit of A's time (think coffee or lunch). DO NOT ASK TO COME TO HIS OFFICE OR OBSERVE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. At most ask for something that will take no more than an hour of A's time. Do whatever is convenient for A. If that means coffee at Starbucks at 5:30 in the morning b/c A is a morning person, suck it up. You can show respect for A’s time by telling him that you will call him the day before you’re scheduled to meet to confirm. This will give A an out should he become unexpectedly busy.

2. Your request to spend a day or more with him would be intrusive. Depending on A's relationship with your boss, A may feel compelled to do something he doesn't want to do.

3. Call. Email is too impersonal for a first conversation. It should go something like this: "A, this is S, I work for B and he passed along your phone number. [Exchange pleasantries]. Well, as someone who is trying to break into the industry I'm wondering if you could meet with me to share any advice you might have for a future law student. I'm interested in hearing about your perspective on the practice of law and where you think things are heading."

Ideally, you wait to do this until you at least have a semester of law school under your belt. That way you'll at least know what you have a realistic shot at and you can have something to discuss with A, even if it is something mundane like law school exams. For example, when I’ve gone down this route, I’ve had the person that knew me call the Attorney and say “hey A, X is somebody that works for me/my best friend/my cousin. X just finished up his Y year at Z law school and is doing really well, I think he said he is in the top % of his class, would you mind talking with X?” My point isn’t to show off, but to say that that phone call will certainly catch that Attorney’s attention. If he’s intrigued and has the time, he’ll want to meet. Additionally, any questions I had did not come across as presumptuous and people I’ve met with have been able to offer specific advice to my situation and circumstances.

Also, I wouldn’t think of what you are trying to do as networking. Networking is building trust with people by showing them what you bring to the table and what you can offer. If your last name is important (like Goldman or Sachs) then what you offer is pretty obvious. For most of us common folk, building trust and relationships with others is a much more time consuming process.

The introductory meeting that you would like to setup is what will decide if you will get the opportunity to network with the person you are meeting. It is almost like a date. If your meeting goes well, the attorney will very clearly invite you to contact him in the future or will invite you to some kind of low level event. If nothing from the meeting particularly interests the attorney, he’ll likely just wish you luck and send you on your way. Don’t get your feelings hurt either way. Send a hand written thank you note a few days later.

Renzo
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Re: Proper Networking

Postby Renzo » Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:13 pm

You're actually in a good position to do this, because as an undergrad they'll know you aren't trolling for a job they can't and wouldn't offer.

I agree with calling instead of emailing; emails are too easy to ignore. But calling risks catching them at a bad time and getting blown off. If you can time it right, I'd try and call when you're sure they won't be there and leave a voicemail telling them you'll follow up. This gives them the opportunity to contact you at their convenience, and makes it less likely you'll be ignored/annoying when you call or email again.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Proper Networking

Postby Patriot1208 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Before I answer your questions let me say this: Do not do this.

Since you will probably go ahead and do this, follow these steps to minimize the damage.

1. You ask your Boss to talk to the Attorney on your behalf. The conversation between B and A should go something like this: "Hey A, I have a guy that works for me that is interested in going to law school down the road. Would you be willing to meet or talk to Student about law school and the practice of law? Would it be okay if I passed along your phone number to S?" If A gives B the go ahead, you call A in a timely fashion and politely ask for a little bit of A's time (think coffee or lunch). DO NOT ASK TO COME TO HIS OFFICE OR OBSERVE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. At most ask for something that will take no more than an hour of A's time. Do whatever is convenient for A. If that means coffee at Starbucks at 5:30 in the morning b/c A is a morning person, suck it up. You can show respect for A’s time by telling him that you will call him the day before you’re scheduled to meet to confirm. This will give A an out should he become unexpectedly busy.

2. Your request to spend a day or more with him would be intrusive. Depending on A's relationship with your boss, A may feel compelled to do something he doesn't want to do.

3. Call. Email is too impersonal for a first conversation. It should go something like this: "A, this is S, I work for B and he passed along your phone number. [Exchange pleasantries]. Well, as someone who is trying to break into the industry I'm wondering if you could meet with me to share any advice you might have for a future law student. I'm interested in hearing about your perspective on the practice of law and where you think things are heading."

Ideally, you wait to do this until you at least have a semester of law school under your belt. That way you'll at least know what you have a realistic shot at and you can have something to discuss with A, even if it is something mundane like law school exams. For example, when I’ve gone down this route, I’ve had the person that knew me call the Attorney and say “hey A, X is somebody that works for me/my best friend/my cousin. X just finished up his Y year at Z law school and is doing really well, I think he said he is in the top % of his class, would you mind talking with X?” My point isn’t to show off, but to say that that phone call will certainly catch that Attorney’s attention. If he’s intrigued and has the time, he’ll want to meet. Additionally, any questions I had did not come across as presumptuous and people I’ve met with have been able to offer specific advice to my situation and circumstances.

Also, I wouldn’t think of what you are trying to do as networking. Networking is building trust with people by showing them what you bring to the table and what you can offer. If your last name is important (like Goldman or Sachs) then what you offer is pretty obvious. For most of us common folk, building trust and relationships with others is a much more time consuming process.

The introductory meeting that you would like to setup is what will decide if you will get the opportunity to network with the person you are meeting. It is almost like a date. If your meeting goes well, the attorney will very clearly invite you to contact him in the future or will invite you to some kind of low level event. If nothing from the meeting particularly interests the attorney, he’ll likely just wish you luck and send you on your way. Don’t get your feelings hurt either way. Send a hand written thank you note a few days later.


Could you elaborate on why you think I shouldn't do this? And I could always wait until after my LSAT in october.
BTW, why are you anonymous?

Anonymous User
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Re: Proper Networking

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:46 pm

Anonymous b/c I prefer not to out myself and I could pretty easily be identified by what I've posted in other threads. My personal preference. (If a mod doesn't think this is appropriate use of the Anon. feature please delete my postings on this thread).

I don't think you should do this b/c you had to ask if trying to spend a couple of days watching AUSA's would be intrusive. If it isn't blatantly obvious to you that something like that would be incredibly intrusive you are likely to inadvertently put your foot in your mouth should you manage to meet with these guys.

To use a golf analogy, if you have to ask about the rules of etiquette, then you probably shouldn’t be going to Augusta National just yet….

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Patriot1208
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Re: Proper Networking

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:52 am

Ya, I wasn't actually expecting to just meet up and ask if I could sit in. More like sit down with the guy and ask questions and maybe in the future. I respect your opinion but it does seem to me your condescending tone is pretty unfounded and your likely much more uptight than the average person. But thanks for taking time to post. Any other opinions?

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romothesavior
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Re: Proper Networking

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:05 pm

Renzo wrote:You're actually in a good position to do this, because as an undergrad they'll know you aren't trolling for a job they can't and wouldn't offer.

I agree with calling instead of emailing; emails are too easy to ignore. But calling risks catching them at a bad time and getting blown off. If you can time it right, I'd try and call when you're sure they won't be there and leave a voicemail telling them you'll follow up. This gives them the opportunity to contact you at their convenience, and makes it less likely you'll be ignored/annoying when you call or email again.


I'd try to have your contact put you in touch with the attorneys, but if not, what about an email requesting the opportunity to call? That's what I did with all of my conversations with attorneys. I said something like:

"My name is romothesavior and I work for X/got your name through Y/etc. I am planning to start law school at Washington University in St. Louis in the fall and I am interested in getting the perspective of of a practicing attorney. If you have time, I would love the opportunity to speak with you about your experience in the profession and hear any advice you may have. "

Usually they'll be like, "yeah sure... give me a call sometime," so then you can just set up a time to talk on the phone. And you may even get lucky and they'll take you out to lunch! A few of the attorneys I have been put in touch with took me out to eat, which allows for a very personal touch.

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Grizz
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Re: Proper Networking

Postby Grizz » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:08 pm

romothesavior wrote:
I'd try to have your contact put you in touch with the attorneys, but if not, what about an email requesting the opportunity to call? That's what I did with all of my conversations with attorneys. I said something like:

"My name is romothesavior and I work for X/got your name through Y/etc. I am planning to start law school at Washington University in St. Louis in the fall and I am interested in getting the perspective of of a practicing attorney. If you have time, I would love the opportunity to speak with you about your experience in the profession and hear any advice you may have. "

Usually they'll be like, "yeah sure... give me a call sometime," so then you can just set up a time to talk on the phone. And you may even get lucky and they'll take you out to lunch! A few of the attorneys I have been put in touch with took me out to eat, which allows for a very personal touch.


Plus free food. Yum.

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Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: Proper Networking

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:09 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Renzo wrote:You're actually in a good position to do this, because as an undergrad they'll know you aren't trolling for a job they can't and wouldn't offer.

I agree with calling instead of emailing; emails are too easy to ignore. But calling risks catching them at a bad time and getting blown off. If you can time it right, I'd try and call when you're sure they won't be there and leave a voicemail telling them you'll follow up. This gives them the opportunity to contact you at their convenience, and makes it less likely you'll be ignored/annoying when you call or email again.


I'd try to have your contact put you in touch with the attorneys, but if not, what about an email requesting the opportunity to call? That's what I did with all of my conversations with attorneys. I said something like:

"My name is romothesavior and I work for X/got your name through Y/etc. I am planning to start law school at Washington University in St. Louis in the fall and I am interested in getting the perspective of of a practicing attorney. If you have time, I would love the opportunity to speak with you about your experience in the profession and hear any advice you may have. "

Usually they'll be like, "yeah sure... give me a call sometime," so then you can just set up a time to talk on the phone. And you may even get lucky and they'll take you out to lunch! A few of the attorneys I have been put in touch with took me out to eat, which allows for a very personal touch.


Seems like solid advice, I may wait till next spring/summer when I know more about what I could be doing for law school.

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Bosque
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Re: Proper Networking

Postby Bosque » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:20 pm

This is NOT proper networking:

--ImageRemoved--

This is:

Image

HTH.

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Patriot1208
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: Proper Networking

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:25 pm

Bosque wrote:This is NOT proper networking:

--ImageRemoved--

This is:

Image

HTH.


That helps, i'm actually going to DOJ system administrator training for the wiretap networks next thursday and friday.




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