Berkeley OCIP

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rayiner
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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby rayiner » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:35 pm

JPU wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 40-45% is still GREAT odds at oci? I mean its only 1 means of finding a job and the employers come to you.


Yes.

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interalia
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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby interalia » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:42 pm

rayiner wrote:
JPU wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 40-45% is still GREAT odds at oci? I mean its only 1 means of finding a job and the employers come to you.


Yes.



It's all about expectations. If you are coming from a TT or worse, where only a miniscule amount of grads can rely on oci for jobs, then of course 40-45% is going to seem great.

But if you're at a top school, you're feeling like you got into the castle but there isn't much treasure in the chest.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:52 pm

doyleoil wrote:Dropped in to say good luck to you guys. I agree with worldtraveler (it's always worth a shot).

On a somewhat unrelated note, Berkeley, and a hell of a lot of other schools, should really think about using the downturn as an excuse to move their grading systems back to something employers can rely on to distinguish the middle part of the class. All these attempts to cushion the bottom (not just at Berkeley, but at a lot of other places too) made sense when employers were hiring hand over fist. Now all those "reforms" do is damage people hovering right around the median.


AMEN! I was above median in every class, according to information provided by professors. I am the 5P 1H person/IP person. Pretty sure the Berkeley peeps know who this is by now. (lolz, sigh) This puts me in the bottom third of my class. At a school with traditional grading I'd be at least a bit above median, if not in the top 40%. Being a median dweller really wouldn't be that bad at a top school like Boalt, and especially with an IP-relevant background and WE. It is exceptionally frustrating.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby doyleoil » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
doyleoil wrote:Dropped in to say good luck to you guys. I agree with worldtraveler (it's always worth a shot).

On a somewhat unrelated note, Berkeley, and a hell of a lot of other schools, should really think about using the downturn as an excuse to move their grading systems back to something employers can rely on to distinguish the middle part of the class. All these attempts to cushion the bottom (not just at Berkeley, but at a lot of other places too) made sense when employers were hiring hand over fist. Now all those "reforms" do is damage people hovering right around the median.


AMEN! I was above median in every class, according to information provided by professors. I am the 5P 1H person/IP person. Pretty sure the Berkeley peeps know who this is by now. (lolz, sigh) This puts me in the bottom third of my class. At a school with traditional grading I'd be at least a bit above median, if not in the top 40%. It is exceptionally frustrating.


Rightfully so. This is something you should mention to the relevant people in administration. People's careers are at stake. And though you are fortunate at least to have IP to shield you a little bit, the liberal arts crowd isn't so lucky. They should have a means of distinguishing themselves to employers, without having to fight to give weak explanations of what looks like (but really isn't) a below-average transcript.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Lawl Shcool » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:03 pm

interalia wrote:
rayiner wrote:
JPU wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 40-45% is still GREAT odds at oci? I mean its only 1 means of finding a job and the employers come to you.


Yes.



It's all about expectations. If you are coming from a TT or worse, where only a miniscule amount of grads can rely on oci for jobs, then of course 40-45% is going to seem great.

But if you're at a top school, you're feeling like you got into the castle but there isn't much treasure in the chest.


I wasn't around for the "boom times." but did people really only rely on oci to get jobs? That seems so counter-intuitive to the hard work it takes getting into and then performing in school. I mean, if your willing to do the work up until that point, you would think people would be willing to put the work into networking and stuff too rather than just rely on oci.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:04 pm

JPU wrote:
interalia wrote:
rayiner wrote:
JPU wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 40-45% is still GREAT odds at oci? I mean its only 1 means of finding a job and the employers come to you.


Yes.



It's all about expectations. If you are coming from a TT or worse, where only a miniscule amount of grads can rely on oci for jobs, then of course 40-45% is going to seem great.

But if you're at a top school, you're feeling like you got into the castle but there isn't much treasure in the chest.


I wasn't around for the "boom times." but did people really only rely on oci to get jobs? That seems so counter-intuitive to the hard work it takes getting into and then performing in school. I mean, if your willing to do the work up until that point, you would think people would be willing to put the work into networking and stuff too rather than just rely on oci.


Yes, and a lot still do. A lot firms don't generally hire outside of OCI. I will say, though, I did manage to get 2 interviews outside of OCI (before OCI) so far though via networking. And those 2 firms come to our OCI, so I would advise not being shy.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
doyleoil wrote:Dropped in to say good luck to you guys. I agree with worldtraveler (it's always worth a shot).

On a somewhat unrelated note, Berkeley, and a hell of a lot of other schools, should really think about using the downturn as an excuse to move their grading systems back to something employers can rely on to distinguish the middle part of the class. All these attempts to cushion the bottom (not just at Berkeley, but at a lot of other places too) made sense when employers were hiring hand over fist. Now all those "reforms" do is damage people hovering right around the median.


AMEN! I was above median in every class, according to information provided by professors. I am the 5P 1H person/IP person. Pretty sure the Berkeley peeps know who this is by now. (lolz, sigh) This puts me in the bottom third of my class. At a school with traditional grading I'd be at least a bit above median, if not in the top 40%. Being a median dweller really wouldn't be that bad at a top school like Boalt, and especially with an IP-relevant background and WE. It is exceptionally frustrating.


I know who you are, and you probably know who I am. Same thing happened to me first semester. Sorry about your 2nd semester grades. I was rooting for you :(.

But seriously, you are going to be FINE. You have a whole lot more going for you than your transcript shows.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
doyleoil wrote:Dropped in to say good luck to you guys. I agree with worldtraveler (it's always worth a shot).

On a somewhat unrelated note, Berkeley, and a hell of a lot of other schools, should really think about using the downturn as an excuse to move their grading systems back to something employers can rely on to distinguish the middle part of the class. All these attempts to cushion the bottom (not just at Berkeley, but at a lot of other places too) made sense when employers were hiring hand over fist. Now all those "reforms" do is damage people hovering right around the median.


AMEN! I was above median in every class, according to information provided by professors. I am the 5P 1H person/IP person. Pretty sure the Berkeley peeps know who this is by now. (lolz, sigh) This puts me in the bottom third of my class. At a school with traditional grading I'd be at least a bit above median, if not in the top 40%. Being a median dweller really wouldn't be that bad at a top school like Boalt, and especially with an IP-relevant background and WE. It is exceptionally frustrating.


I know who you are, and you probably know who I am. Same thing happened to me first semester. Sorry about your 2nd semester grades. I was rooting for you :(.

But seriously, you are going to be FINE. You have a whole lot more going for you than your transcript shows.


If this is OP, I know who you are I believe. I was rooting for you too. :( Good luck with law review though....

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Lawl Shcool » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Yes, and a lot still do. A lot firms don't generally hire outside of OCI. I will say, though, I did manage to get 2 interviews outside of OCI (before OCI) so far though via networking. And those 2 firms come to our OCI, so I would advise not being shy.


Ya that's my game plan. To set-up as many pre-OCI interviews as I can in my home market, do OCI targeting other markets, then get to work networking in the Bay Area. Just starting reading the Guerilla Guide and am very excited to get the ball rolling on this.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:19 pm

JPU wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Yes, and a lot still do. A lot firms don't generally hire outside of OCI. I will say, though, I did manage to get 2 interviews outside of OCI (before OCI) so far though via networking. And those 2 firms come to our OCI, so I would advise not being shy.


Ya that's my game plan. To set-up as many pre-OCI interviews as I can in my home market, do OCI targeting other markets, then get to work networking in the Bay Area. Just starting reading the Guerilla Guide and am very excited to get the ball rolling on this.


I am almost convinced I want to go to a larger strictly (or at least mostly) IP firm as well (nerdy personality and interests issue), and they fortunately tend to be a bit less grade conscious, but there aren't that many larger strictly/mostly IP firms either. I am also looking at my "home market" and not the bay area (by choice), but my home market is still one of the major legal markets.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:22 pm

Just chiming in to say that I'm also an all-P kiddo, and like "anonymous" above (I know who you are :)), I'm frustrated after meeting with professors and hearing I was a point or two shy of an H, and knowing that's in no way reflected on my transcript. Hey, at least we're not alone...?

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rayiner
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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby rayiner » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:32 pm

JPU wrote:
interalia wrote:
rayiner wrote:
JPU wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 40-45% is still GREAT odds at oci? I mean its only 1 means of finding a job and the employers come to you.


Yes.



It's all about expectations. If you are coming from a TT or worse, where only a miniscule amount of grads can rely on oci for jobs, then of course 40-45% is going to seem great.

But if you're at a top school, you're feeling like you got into the castle but there isn't much treasure in the chest.


I wasn't around for the "boom times." but did people really only rely on oci to get jobs? That seems so counter-intuitive to the hard work it takes getting into and then performing in school. I mean, if your willing to do the work up until that point, you would think people would be willing to put the work into networking and stuff too rather than just rely on oci.


Yes, people relied mainly on OCI, because OCI is the main way to get big firm jobs. You *can* network your way into big firm jobs, but it's rare. It's not like in most other industries. OCI is the formal procedure for getting hired at a big firm, so networking involves, to a certain extent, getting around that formal procedure.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby rayiner » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:35 pm

This is also why NU's grading system is the bomb. Enough grade inflation to not make the bottom of the class look bad, but a nice wiiide curve to allow everyone to differentiate themselves, combined with a lack of transparency to make it impossible for employers to use arbitrary "top 31%"-type cut-offs.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby doyleoil » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:42 pm

rayiner wrote:This is also why NU's grading system is the bomb. Enough grade inflation to not make the bottom of the class look bad, but a nice wiiide curve to allow everyone to differentiate themselves, combined with a lack of transparency to make it impossible for employers to use arbitrary "top 31%"-type cut-offs.


possibly true - though the worry would be that sooner or later everyone will catch on that an nu 3.75 means something like "barely above literate"

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby rayiner » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:51 pm

doyleoil wrote:
rayiner wrote:This is also why NU's grading system is the bomb. Enough grade inflation to not make the bottom of the class look bad, but a nice wiiide curve to allow everyone to differentiate themselves, combined with a lack of transparency to make it impossible for employers to use arbitrary "top 31%"-type cut-offs.


possibly true - though the worry would be that sooner or later everyone will catch on that an nu 3.75 means something like "barely above literate"


What is median at Chi again? One-hundred-seventy-eight?!

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doyleoil
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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby doyleoil » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:07 pm

rayiner wrote:
doyleoil wrote:
rayiner wrote:This is also why NU's grading system is the bomb. Enough grade inflation to not make the bottom of the class look bad, but a nice wiiide curve to allow everyone to differentiate themselves, combined with a lack of transparency to make it impossible for employers to use arbitrary "top 31%"-type cut-offs.


possibly true - though the worry would be that sooner or later everyone will catch on that an nu 3.75 means something like "barely above literate"


What is median at Chi again? One-hundred-seventy-eight?!


Yeah we traded Coase for the Arby's theorem: Different is better.

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rayiner
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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby rayiner » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:41 pm

doyleoil wrote:
rayiner wrote:
doyleoil wrote:
rayiner wrote:This is also why NU's grading system is the bomb. Enough grade inflation to not make the bottom of the class look bad, but a nice wiiide curve to allow everyone to differentiate themselves, combined with a lack of transparency to make it impossible for employers to use arbitrary "top 31%"-type cut-offs.


possibly true - though the worry would be that sooner or later everyone will catch on that an nu 3.75 means something like "barely above literate"


What is median at Chi again? One-hundred-seventy-eight?!


Yeah we traded Coase for the Arby's theorem: Different is better.


:D

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:22 pm

JPU wrote:
interalia wrote:
rayiner wrote:
JPU wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 40-45% is still GREAT odds at oci? I mean its only 1 means of finding a job and the employers come to you.


Yes.



It's all about expectations. If you are coming from a TT or worse, where only a miniscule amount of grads can rely on oci for jobs, then of course 40-45% is going to seem great.

But if you're at a top school, you're feeling like you got into the castle but there isn't much treasure in the chest.


I wasn't around for the "boom times." but did people really only rely on oci to get jobs? That seems so counter-intuitive to the hard work it takes getting into and then performing in school. I mean, if your willing to do the work up until that point, you would think people would be willing to put the work into networking and stuff too rather than just rely on oci.


~85% at MVPB got an offer at OCIP/OCI/OGI in the "boom times," so yes, people relied on OCI to get jobs. (Back then probably 95% at Columbia got an offer from OCI.)

Boalt's 30% this past OCI, in comparison to "boom times," is really bad.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:14 am

This is the third Anon poster from the first page [talking about how I'm thinking of bidding at V10's-50's, even with my almost-all P's]. I don't care to be anon; I'm an old poster. But I want to keep the anon shtick up for the sake of this thread.

Yes, I share the frustration - most of the P's I got were above the 50th percentile. If Berkeley had traditional grading, I would probably be right above or around median. Oh well. Who knows, though. Maybe slackers wouldn't be the same. Median at Berkeley isn't anything to be excited about anyway. So the hell with all these counterfactuals.

The main issue here is: what next? CDO flat out told me that grades will make or break the OCIP. So I am going to go at it with full glory; behold my swagger as I haughtily enter the dank and dingy Hotel Durant rooms, smiling my Michael Clayton smile, but all the while oozing beta-ness, ready to work 8-8, Mon-Sun, 350 days a year [is it good or is it bad that I don't look anything like George Clooney? I'll find out I guess]. I am going to pwn the shit out of the lousy partners and bored associates before I get pwned, to borrow xoxo lingo. If I am to go down, I will go down trying.

[in before someone self-righteous comes along and lectures me about wasting bids that could help someone with "good" grades: fuck off].

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby worldtraveler » Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:This is the third Anon poster from the first page [talking about how I'm thinking of bidding at V10's-50's, even with my almost-all P's]. I don't care to be anon; I'm an old poster. But I want to keep the anon shtick up for the sake of this thread.

Yes, I share the frustration - most of the P's I got were above the 50th percentile. If Berkeley had traditional grading, I would probably be right above or around median. Oh well. Who knows, though. Maybe slackers wouldn't be the same. Median at Berkeley isn't anything to be excited about anyway. So the hell with all these counterfactuals.

The main issue here is: what next? CDO flat out told me that grades will make or break the OCIP. So I am going to go at it with full glory; behold my swagger as I haughtily enter the dank and dingy Hotel Durant rooms, smiling my Michael Clayton smile, but all the while oozing beta-ness, ready to work 8-8, Mon-Sun, 350 days a year [is it good or is it bad that I don't look anything like George Clooney? I'll find out I guess]. I am going to pwn the shit out of the lousy partners and bored associates before I get pwned, to borrow xoxo lingo. If I am to go down, I will go down trying.

[in before someone self-righteous comes along and lectures me about wasting bids that could help someone with "good" grades: fuck off].


I posted something like this already, but I don't think people should listen to the CDO's predictions. In my experience, they aren't that accurate, and regardless of their predictions you should still give OCI your best shot. There are some non-IP students out there with less than stellar grades who got offers last year. I also know someone at the top or nearly the top of the class who got nothing due to really bad interviewing and just a general off-putting personality (I'm guessing). There are things that matter besides grades.

Also, there are some people who had success from mass mail last year. It may be a long shot, but maybe worth the shot?

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
doyleoil wrote:Dropped in to say good luck to you guys. I agree with worldtraveler (it's always worth a shot).

On a somewhat unrelated note, Berkeley, and a hell of a lot of other schools, should really think about using the downturn as an excuse to move their grading systems back to something employers can rely on to distinguish the middle part of the class. All these attempts to cushion the bottom (not just at Berkeley, but at a lot of other places too) made sense when employers were hiring hand over fist. Now all those "reforms" do is damage people hovering right around the median.


AMEN! I was above median in every class, according to information provided by professors. I am the 5P 1H person/IP person. Pretty sure the Berkeley peeps know who this is by now. (lolz, sigh) This puts me in the bottom third of my class. At a school with traditional grading I'd be at least a bit above median, if not in the top 40%. Being a median dweller really wouldn't be that bad at a top school like Boalt, and especially with an IP-relevant background and WE. It is exceptionally frustrating.


OP again - and I am sure this poster knows who I am, as well. I was a high P (1 point away from an H in one class, and only a couple points away in others), and this grading system really hurts me. I got some letters of recommendation from profs attesting to my ability, but that will only take me so far. I think we should keep this thread alive through OCIP and report back with updates.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
doyleoil wrote:Dropped in to say good luck to you guys. I agree with worldtraveler (it's always worth a shot).

On a somewhat unrelated note, Berkeley, and a hell of a lot of other schools, should really think about using the downturn as an excuse to move their grading systems back to something employers can rely on to distinguish the middle part of the class. All these attempts to cushion the bottom (not just at Berkeley, but at a lot of other places too) made sense when employers were hiring hand over fist. Now all those "reforms" do is damage people hovering right around the median.


AMEN! I was above median in every class, according to information provided by professors. I am the 5P 1H person/IP person. Pretty sure the Berkeley peeps know who this is by now. (lolz, sigh) This puts me in the bottom third of my class. At a school with traditional grading I'd be at least a bit above median, if not in the top 40%. Being a median dweller really wouldn't be that bad at a top school like Boalt, and especially with an IP-relevant background and WE. It is exceptionally frustrating.


I know who you are, and you probably know who I am. Same thing happened to me first semester. Sorry about your 2nd semester grades. I was rooting for you :(.

But seriously, you are going to be FINE. You have a whole lot more going for you than your transcript shows.


If this is OP, I know who you are I believe. I was rooting for you too. :( Good luck with law review though....


That was not me - it was someone else who was in your corner. But thanks - and good luck with law review to you, too! Although I doubt anything will come of that now, since they're the same people I competed against for Hs! lol It is what it is...... :D

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:52 pm

Is there a good DC/NYC presence @ b-line?

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Kurama
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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby Kurama » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:46 am

JPU wrote:
interalia wrote:
rayiner wrote:
JPU wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 40-45% is still GREAT odds at oci? I mean its only 1 means of finding a job and the employers come to you.


Yes.



It's all about expectations. If you are coming from a TT or worse, where only a miniscule amount of grads can rely on oci for jobs, then of course 40-45% is going to seem great.

But if you're at a top school, you're feeling like you got into the castle but there isn't much treasure in the chest.


I wasn't around for the "boom times." but did people really only rely on oci to get jobs? That seems so counter-intuitive to the hard work it takes getting into and then performing in school. I mean, if your willing to do the work up until that point, you would think people would be willing to put the work into networking and stuff too rather than just rely on oci.


Were you a poster on this site back in 2007? It was a completely different world then. Honestly, if you talk to Top 14 grads from those days, look at TLS, and read the Vault guides from the boom era you will quickly see why people see 40-45 percent as horrible odds. My friend who graduated from Duke Law in 06 was telling me that I didn't need to worry about my grades at UVA; she said that I would get a firm job as long as I wanted one and didn't drop out. Really during the boom times bottom of the class at GULC had a good shot at biglaw. I remember reading the Vault student employment responses and the way people were talking about prospects at UVA I couldn't even distinguish between prospects there and at Harvard when reading both schools responses. It's amazing how much things have changed.

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Re: Berkeley OCIP

Postby NYAssociate » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:50 am

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Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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