How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
animalcrkrs
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:24 pm

How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby animalcrkrs » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:42 pm

I'm at NU and we have grades here but don't have a 'class rank'...I mean, you know generally where you stand based on your GPA but what IS the top 10%, top 30%, bottom 30% GPA for reasons of figuring out proper OCI bids?

I ask because I've read through a lot of threads in this legal employment forum that call out "Sidley/Kirkland/Mayer" etc. take top x% from these schools, top x% from these schools...and have no clue what that actually means at NU or a similar school that doesn't give rank/real grades beyond 'pass/high pass' or whatever. (and of course the blurbs on the OCI site for the school also say meaningless..."must have above median", "in top 10% of class" etc.).

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8449
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:05 am

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tautology
Posts: 434
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:40 pm

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby Tautology » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:08 am

I would really like to convince someone to do some research and figure out the normal grade correlation between classes for individual students (if it does stay relatively the same across schools) so that such things could be well estimated just from knowing the curve.

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby Renzo » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:15 am

My school doesn't rank either, but OCS was happy to tell me (roughly) where I was unofficially.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby rayiner » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:24 am

animalcrkrs wrote:I'm at NU and we have grades here but don't have a 'class rank'...I mean, you know generally where you stand based on your GPA but what IS the top 10%, top 30%, bottom 30% GPA for reasons of figuring out proper OCI bids?

I ask because I've read through a lot of threads in this legal employment forum that call out "Sidley/Kirkland/Mayer" etc. take top x% from these schools, top x% from these schools...and have no clue what that actually means at NU or a similar school that doesn't give rank/real grades beyond 'pass/high pass' or whatever. (and of course the blurbs on the OCI site for the school also say meaningless..."must have above median", "in top 10% of class" etc.).


NU is hard to calculate, partially because the curve isn't even normally distributed really.

I'm not sure firms even calculate a precise rank-equivalent. Rather, they just look for people in particular GPA-bands. You can look at the GPA charts on the Symplicity page to get an idea. Basically, the breakdown seems to be:

3.3 - 3.4 (median)
3.4 - 3.5 (above median)
3.5 - 3.6 (more selective)
3.6 - 3.7 (selective)

Nearly all the firms are somewhere in these bands. A few are out at 3.7+ (eg: W&C at like 4.0+) but just a handful.

User avatar
animalcrkrs
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:24 pm

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby animalcrkrs » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:44 am

thesealocust wrote:NU gives grades. WTF are you talking about?


Wow rude, welcome to my thread. Please re-read.

animalcrkrs wrote:I'm at NU and we have grades here but don't have a 'class rank'...


We have grades but no rank. So you know your GPA is 3.52 or 3.76 which gives you a ballpark of how well you are doing obviously. But no rank or % in the class.

rayiner wrote:
NU is hard to calculate, partially because the curve isn't even normally distributed really.

I'm not sure firms even calculate a precise rank-equivalent. Rather, they just look for people in particular GPA-bands. You can look at the GPA charts on the Symplicity page to get an idea. Basically, the breakdown seems to be:

3.3 - 3.4 (median)
3.4 - 3.5 (above median)
3.5 - 3.6 (more selective)
3.6 - 3.7 (selective)

Nearly all the firms are somewhere in these bands. A few are out at 3.7+ (eg: W&C at like 4.0+) but just a handful.


Oh Hi Ray! I've seen that little chart (it's 08 right? I think they are publishing the 09 soon...) but same thing...so does it make sense you think that...

3.3-3.4= 50%ish
3.4-3.5=top 40%ish
3.5-3.6=top 30%ish
3.6-3.7=top 20%?ish

and just for kicks...how would you even begin to do this for H's low/pass/high system?

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby rayiner » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:51 am

animalcrkrs wrote:
thesealocust wrote:NU gives grades. WTF are you talking about?


Wow rude, welcome to my thread. Please re-read.

animalcrkrs wrote:I'm at NU and we have grades here but don't have a 'class rank'...


We have grades but no rank. So you know your GPA is 3.52 or 3.76 which gives you a ballpark of how well you are doing obviously. But no rank or % in the class.

rayiner wrote:
NU is hard to calculate, partially because the curve isn't even normally distributed really.

I'm not sure firms even calculate a precise rank-equivalent. Rather, they just look for people in particular GPA-bands. You can look at the GPA charts on the Symplicity page to get an idea. Basically, the breakdown seems to be:

3.3 - 3.4 (median)
3.4 - 3.5 (above median)
3.5 - 3.6 (more selective)
3.6 - 3.7 (selective)

Nearly all the firms are somewhere in these bands. A few are out at 3.7+ (eg: W&C at like 4.0+) but just a handful.


Oh Hi Ray! I've seen that little chart (it's 08 right? I think they are publishing the 09 soon...) but same thing...so does it make sense you think that...

3.3-3.4= 50%ish
3.4-3.5=top 40%ish
3.5-3.6=top 30%ish
3.6-3.7=top 20%?ish

and just for kicks...how would you even begin to do this for H's low/pass/high system?


It's a bit non-linear, so for the last two categories I'd add 5%, (ie: I think 3.65 is a good estimate for top 25% ish).

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 3997
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 1981 12:25 am

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby Corsair » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:03 am

..

User avatar
TTT-LS
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby TTT-LS » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:27 am

.
Last edited by TTT-LS on Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby rayiner » Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:13 pm

TTT-LS wrote:Disclaimer on all of the above: I know next to nothing about statistics/math. As for selective, I'd bump that number up just a little higher, since the bigtime Chicago firms probably aren't hiring a lot of 3.6s ITE, at least without LR or a really strong pre-LS resume. If gollymolly or other rising 3Ls can get in here, they might be able to speak to that with greater accuracy. Certainly my 2L year 3.6 without LR was enough to land a great Chi firm, and even some of the stronger DC firms as well (e.g., Hogan).


Right. Just to clarify, my 3.6-3.7 = selective was for 2007-2008, which is the most recent year we have data for. Obviously, selective firms will probably bump their targets up for 2009-2010.

User avatar
altoidz
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:27 am

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby altoidz » Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:15 pm

rayiner your tar is so cute!!!

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby rayiner » Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:24 pm

altoidz wrote:rayiner your tar is so cute!!!


:D

User avatar
animalcrkrs
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:24 pm

Re: How do you know class % in school without rank/grades?

Postby animalcrkrs » Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:18 pm

Thanks for the post TTT-LS :)




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.