Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

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At best, straight Ps at YLS probably lands you a job at a:

V5
15
18%
V10
10
12%
V25
22
27%
Hell If I Know
35
43%
 
Total votes: 82

markymark
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby markymark » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:16 pm

thesealocust wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Can't imagine straight passing at YLS disqualifies you from any but the most selective firms (WLRK, CSM, S&C, W&C, and the elite boutiques). Wouldn't shock me if you could still get something at one of the less selective V10s or at any V20.


wut? You're kidding, right? Firms do like to see you perform in law school, even from Yale. There are Yale grads up and down the V100, I'm sure the 'lower' end firms with Yale grads are the ones w/o many Hs. Since Hs are discretionary (i.e. no limit per course), OP's performance is very likely bottom of the class. I wouldn't be surprised if big law were possible, but dude is NOT getting Skadden with straight Cr/P grades.



I know 2 people who are slightly above median at Skadden from my T10.

I'm guessing you are wrong.

miamiman
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby miamiman » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:22 pm

doyleoil wrote:
booyakasha wrote:my favorite Quinn Emanuel post on ATL is "CHECK YOU EMAIL."


i'm partial to the one that (immediately and almost certainly correctly) calls out this dude as a bottom-25%'er at hys

if i'm remembering right atl did eventually reveal that the guy was from yale

edit: ohhhh, post, not comment on this post - my bad - yeah that one was pretty funny too


link me? found it.

not as good as the repurposing Quinn fiasco

Anonymous User
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:32 pm

booyakasha wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
booyakasha wrote:DIAF


Although beggars can't typically be choosers, I'll pass on Latham.


how bout DLA Piper?


I wouldn't be too sure about DLA Piper either.

According to Vault:

Vault on Piper wrote:To illustrate how selective DLA Piper is, a midlevel associate reports, “We often interview 30 people and call back 10 to hire 1.” That being said, successful candidates must “demonstrate knowledge of our practice and willingness to work hard." A litigator describes the interview process as “extensive,” with “over 15 hours of meetings.”


Even the turdies are too selective for a YLSlacker

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:54 pm

thesealocust wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Can't imagine straight passing at YLS disqualifies you from any but the most selective firms (WLRK, CSM, S&C, W&C, and the elite boutiques). Wouldn't shock me if you could still get something at one of the less selective V10s or at any V20.


wut? You're kidding, right? Firms do like to see you perform in law school, even from Yale. There are Yale grads up and down the V100, I'm sure the 'lower' end firms with Yale grads are the ones w/o many Hs. Since Hs are discretionary (i.e. no limit per course), OP's performance is very likely bottom of the class. I wouldn't be surprised if big law were possible, but dude is NOT getting Skadden with straight Cr/P grades.


You know, I agreed with you until I read this:

What Skadden Wants
Vivia Chen

June 16, 2010

Editor's note: Steven Glaser informs us that the firm does have a trust and estates practice.

I'm continuing my series of hiring partner chats. (You'll recall that I also chatted with hiring partners Gregory Shumaker of Jones Day and Tom Leatherbury of Vinson & Elkins just a few weeks ago.)

Today I'm staying right here in New York to visit with Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom hiring partner Steven Glaser (pictured right).


Skadden is a mega, hypercharged firm with a sweatshop reputation where the odds of making partner are almost nil. Why do people want to work at your firm?
People desperately want good experience. I'm not sure that a very significant number of associates even want to be partners. I think the firm is good at fostering opportunities; it's supportive if you eventually want to work for the government or a client.

Is there a Skadden persona?
Confident, but not elitist. It's not a stuffy place. People have good credentials here, but once you're here, it doesn't matter where you went to school or who you clerked for.

Any difference between this year's crop of summer associates and past years?
The class is 50 percent smaller than last year; there are 100 students overall. By going to a smaller number, we had the luxury of getting people who are really enthusiastic about being at Skadden.

Besides that rah-rah spirit, what else do you look for?
The one thing I look for is someone who really wants to be a lawyer.

How can you tell? Do you give some kind of secret personality test?
I ask why they really want to be a lawyer. You want someone with some spark and passion for lawyering. A lot of people end up at law school because they don't know what else to do, and then they feel the work is beneath them. They want to write a novel or play the violin.


So firms should avoid the artsy-creative type?
No, no. Some of those people work out quite well. [Skadden partner] Greg Milmoe was a pianist, and now he's one of the leading restructuring lawyers.


Ever had a candidate who was great on paper but who blew the interview?
Yes. The ones who were totally unprepared and knew nothing about Skadden. Someone asked us about our T&E practice, which we don't have.


Does Skadden hire from third- or fourth-tier schools?
We will generally consider the top of the class at most any school. They might not get an offer, but we're open.




I imagine Skadden is pretty fussy about grades from even the top schools.
We are, but it depends on the school. At some schools the grading process is meaningless--like Yale, Stanford, and now Harvard.


Seems like if you go to one of those schools, you've got an automatic edge.
I'd say so. [But] most of those students would meet our criteria anyway.


What about students who go to one of the lesser law schools? What happens if they have a blemish on their transcript--are they forever banished from the Skadden kingdom?
A lot of schools don't allow us to prescreen candidates, so we end up interviewing some people who might not have made our grade cut. But if they have compelling reasons for an aberrant grade or semester, some [ultimately] get hired. We're human, and we understand.

So the lesson is for the student to be fearless?
If a bad grade is unexplained, it hurts them. It's good for students to bring up the issue and address it forthrightly.

If you have topics you'd like to discuss, or information to share for The Careerist, e-mail chief blogger Vivia Chen at VChen@alm.com.


See Miamiman's thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=120868

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thesealocust
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:58 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

12262010
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby 12262010 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:00 pm

who gives a shit if OP gets Skadden? OP is still going to get a killer job because OP goes to Yale.

Tautology
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby Tautology » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:00 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Syllogism:

1) There are Yale law grads at (most) every V100 law firm
2) There are objectively 'inferior' V100 law firms to skadden
3) OP is not fucking getting Skadden

The point of the interview is you didn't NEED to be the top of the class. He didn't say you COULD be at the bottom.


Although your conclusion may not be wrong, your syllogism blows.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby Mr. Matlock » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:01 pm

booyakasha wrote:who gives a shit if OP gets Skadden? OP is still going to get a killer job because OP goes to Yale.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:02 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Syllogism:

1) There are Yale law grads at (most) every V100 law firm
2) There are objectively 'inferior' V100 law firms to skadden
3) OP is not fucking getting Skadden

The point of the interview is you didn't NEED to be the top of the class. He didn't say you COULD be at the bottom.


Actually, he said you could be top, median, bottom, whatever. I think the term "meaningless" captures that fairly well.

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doyleoil
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby doyleoil » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:03 pm

this thread is getting good

12262010
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby 12262010 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:05 pm

doyleoil wrote:this thread is getting good


that tends to happen whenever thesealocust makes things up about OCI.

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NoleinNY
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby NoleinNY » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:06 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:Damn I'm old. I hear Cadwalader and all I can think of is this:

--ImageRemoved--

A V100 position for the first person to name that movie.


Fast Break

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby Mr. Matlock » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:07 pm

NoleinNY wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:Damn I'm old. I hear Cadwalader and all I can think of is this:

--ImageRemoved--

A V100 position for the first person to name that movie.


Fast Break

Offer will be sent in mail pending review and tit size.

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thesealocust
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:08 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

12262010
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby 12262010 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:09 pm

thesealocust wrote:
booyakasha wrote:
doyleoil wrote:this thread is getting good


that tends to happen whenever thesealocust makes things up about OCI.


It's like my job


to do other people a disservice by making shit up?

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thesealocust
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:12 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

12262010
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby 12262010 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:21 pm

thesealocust wrote:
booyakasha wrote:to do other people a disservice by making shit up?


See, I'm all about the good humor... but what precisely am I making up? Shit's important and so I'm trying to learn all I can. If something I am doing or saying is wrong, I really want to know because I'm about to bid and interview and my goal is to not screw it up. I feel like that necessitates a degree of discussion and speculation. For my part, I am absolutely mired in data. I've hunted down numbers and statistics from a range of top schools that I use to base my statements on. That hardly means they're all correct, but I really am trying to puzzle this out here, and if I'm failing, I am happy to be criticized and corrected - and to shut up if it's doing other people a disservice.

But don't be conclusion, because from where I'm sitting I don't understand what I've done that's so blatantly wrong as to be labeled making stuff up much less doing people a disservice. I honestly and deeply desire to do neither, so help me out?


based on your posts I've read in the bidding/career advice threads, you seem to be ill-informed or under-informed. most of the information you provide consists of broad generalizations that don't seem to have much basis in fact. I don't really think you should be giving advice in the bidding threads. If you do give advice, you should heavily qualify it.

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doyleoil
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby doyleoil » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:23 pm

booyakasha wrote: If you do give advice, you should heavily qualify it.


this

miamiman
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby miamiman » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:26 pm

I'd bet sealocust is actually right in his musing.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that not a single YLS student actually wants Cadwalader. (For the record, I suspect that's a fair assumption.) And we know that 4 / 190 (~2% of the class) ended up there. Is it so crazy to assume that straight Ps, even at YLS, place you below the acceptable "GPA" range for a V5 in this fucking awful economy? (You'd have to guess that the "median" YLS student has > 1 H, right?)

Just grasping in the air here but I dont think this an erroneous leap in logic.

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thesealocust
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:27 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

12262010
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby 12262010 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:29 pm

miamiman wrote:I'd bet sealocust is actually right in his musing.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that not a single YLS student actually wants Cadwalader. (For the record, I suspect that's a fair assumption.) And we know that 4 / 190 (~2% of the class) ended up there. Is it so crazy to assume that straight Ps, even at YLS, place you below the acceptable "GPA" range for a V5 in this fucking awful economy? (You'd have to guess that the "median" YLS student has > 1 H, right?)

Just grasping in the air here but I dont think this an erroneous leap in logic.


this post brings up a completely unrelated question I have about firm rankings... what's the fundamental difference between working at a V10 and something ranked slightly lower (like maybe 20-50)? job security (lol)? better bonuses/salary increases?

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Unemployed
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby Unemployed » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:30 pm

booyakasha wrote:
miamiman wrote:I'd bet sealocust is actually right in his musing.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that not a single YLS student actually wants Cadwalader. (For the record, I suspect that's a fair assumption.) And we know that 4 / 190 (~2% of the class) ended up there. Is it so crazy to assume that straight Ps, even at YLS, place you below the acceptable "GPA" range for a V5 in this fucking awful economy? (You'd have to guess that the "median" YLS student has > 1 H, right?)

Just grasping in the air here but I dont think this an erroneous leap in logic.


this post brings up a completely unrelated question I have about firm rankings... what's the fundamental difference between working at a V10 and something ranked slightly lower (like maybe 20-50)? job security (lol)? better bonuses/salary increases?


It think it's the employment equivalent of attending CLS.

12262010
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby 12262010 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:32 pm

thesealocust wrote:I mean, I'm happy to have the conversation end here if you don't want to drag it out into specifics - but if I'm improperly informed, it's not for lack of information. I'm staring at GPA cut offs and/or hiring numbers from multiple years of OCI from a half dozen or so schools here. As appeal to authority, that means nothing, maybe I'm totally wrong. But if you don't point out to me statement X, Y, or Z that seemed fallacious I have a hard time figuring out why others (who, I believe, are also rising 2Ls) chafe so much at the information I am providing.


where did you get info on GPA cutoffs? care to share?

maybe I'm perceiving your comments as misinformed because I'm just starting to get into all this data myself.

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thesealocust
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:33 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:37 pm

edit: n/m
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