Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

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At best, straight Ps at YLS probably lands you a job at a:

V5
15
18%
V10
10
12%
V25
22
27%
Hell If I Know
35
43%
 
Total votes: 82

NYAssociate
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby NYAssociate » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:29 am

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Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:30 pm

NYAssociate wrote:
OK, I'm reporting what I hear from my firm and extrapolating. But I wouldn't be surprised if other firms felt the same way (except for a few of the V5 and the crazy DC V10s/V20s).


which are these?

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
NYAssociate wrote:
OK, I'm reporting what I hear from my firm and extrapolating. But I wouldn't be surprised if other firms felt the same way (except for a few of the V5 and the crazy DC V10s/V20s).


which are these?


Not the same poster but I'm sure that straight P's are not enough for firms like Williams and Connolly, Covington DC, Jenner Block DC, and Kellog Huber.

NYAssociate
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances

Postby NYAssociate » Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:58 pm

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Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:25 pm

How selective are the non-NYC branches of firms like Skadden, SullCrom, Simpson Thacher, etc? Are these usually easier to land than their NYC counterparts?

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby NYAssociate » Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:28 pm

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Last edited by NYAssociate on Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:46 pm

for what it's worth, there are at least three yls kids with all p's going to V10s in new york, including one to what i think is a v5 (i wasn't looking in ny so don't know the rankings by heart).

as for where all p's puts you in the class, i think it's the case that 5th percentile and median are basically equivalent (yes, i know this isn't exactly right if you stick to the "real" definition of percentile), because there are virtually no lp's, but i think a large part of the class gets all p's.

as long as i'm here, i also feel like commenting on the "show them you want to work at a firm" thing. one way to do that would seem to be classes, but there are plenty of people who did clinic, a softie seminar, and one blackletter class who did fine. i, for example, took (1) one blackletter that has nothing to do with my professed practice areas of interest, (2) a fluffy seminar, (3) a few units of directed research, in which i wrote a paper, and (4) a clinic. i got exactly one question about whether i want to work at a firm and was pretty successful overall.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:for what it's worth, there are at least three yls kids with all p's going to V10s in new york, including one to what i think is a v5 (i wasn't looking in ny so don't know the rankings by heart).


Thanks so much for your input. Do you mind naming the firms?

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby RVP11 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:How selective are the non-NYC branches of firms like Skadden, SullCrom, Simpson Thacher, etc? Are these usually easier to land than their NYC counterparts?


IDK about S&C, but Skadden, STB, etc. are probably easiest to get in NYC. The NYC offices take huge classes.

And LOL @ this thread. Of course a YLS person with straight Ps can get V5. See: Skadden NYC. Wouldn't be shocked if Cravath, S&C, and DPW would also take someone with straight Ps who had a great interview.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:37 am

Congrats on being a total failure at law school, but still able to get biglaw on the virtue of your ugpa/LSAT score.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:07 am

RVP11 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How selective are the non-NYC branches of firms like Skadden, SullCrom, Simpson Thacher, etc? Are these usually easier to land than their NYC counterparts?


IDK about S&C, but Skadden, STB, etc. are probably easiest to get in NYC. The NYC offices take huge classes.

And LOL @ this thread. Of course a YLS person with straight Ps can get V5. See: Skadden NYC. Wouldn't be shocked if Cravath, S&C, and DPW would also take someone with straight Ps who had a great interview.


This. I'm a rising YLS 2L and plenty of my friends who have mostly Ps have offers from from these firms. It seems it's not what your grades are but how serious you are about wanting to work for BigLaw. There are quite a few with all Ps or are recent transfers who got offered by the top DC firms too.

Any Yalie who's motivated enough will get a V5/V10 firm offer regardless. Unless of course you're a social freak or terrible at interviews. :wink:

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romothesavior
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby romothesavior » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:31 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Congrats on being a total failure at law school, but still able to get biglaw on the virtue of your ugpa/LSAT score.


I really hope this is sarcasm.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:44 am

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War Cardinal
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby War Cardinal » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:45 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Congrats on being a total failure at law school, but still able to get biglaw on the virtue of your ugpa/LSAT score.


Many things wrong with this vile display of idiocy, but I only have time to correct one: it's not just "biglaw," it's NYC ELITE BIGLAW.

Sorry for pushing the suppository a little farther up your ass.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:39 pm

romothesavior wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Congrats on being a total failure at law school, but still able to get biglaw on the virtue of your ugpa/LSAT score.


I really hope this is sarcasm.


In what amounts to an uncurved system, the dude got 2 Ps and 7 "Crs", which may as well be code for "LP but the prof didn't want to give them out." That's laughable - he did about as poorly at Yale as you reasonably do without assaulting a professor. So yeah, he's going to get biglaw - probably at a high V firm in NYC - entirely on the strength of his UGPA and LSAT score (and whatever softs managed to get him in at Yale,) because, as NYAssociate pointed out, firms are 'desperate' to get Yallies.

So no, no sarcasm here. Just amusement.

Edit: Willing to restract statement, eat my shoe and appologize if credible information is presented that lots of profs at Yale give Crs instead of Ps, thus giving only HPs and Crs.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:48 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Congrats on being a total failure at law school, but still able to get biglaw on the virtue of your ugpa/LSAT score.


Actually that really does deserve a congrats---that's pretty awesome if you think about it. You were good to go for a six figure job as soon as you finished undergrad and taking the LSAT. That sounds pretty badass to me.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:54 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Congrats on being a total failure at law school, but still able to get biglaw on the virtue of your ugpa/LSAT score.


I really hope this is sarcasm.


In what amounts to an uncurved system, the dude got 2 Ps and 7 "Crs", which may as well be code for "LP but the prof didn't want to give them out." That's laughable - he did about as poorly at Yale as you reasonably do without assaulting a professor. So yeah, he's going to get biglaw - probably at a high V firm in NYC - entirely on the strength of his UGPA and LSAT score (and whatever softs managed to get him in at Yale,) because, as NYAssociate pointed out, firms are 'desperate' to get Yallies.

So no, no sarcasm here. Just amusement.

Edit: Willing to restract statement, eat my shoe and appologize if credible information is presented that lots of profs at Yale give Crs instead of Ps, thus giving only HPs and Crs.


First of all, all first-semester courses at YLS are graded Credit ("CR")/Fail. Clinics are also graded on this basis. As are journals, reading groups, etc.

Beginning second semester, the majority of courses are graded H/P/LP/F. Even then, some courses are offered solely CR/F.

The OP has 3Ps (from second semester courses) and 7 CRs--4 first semester courses and 3 others (probably a clinic, a journal, and a reading group).

A CR is in no way "code for 'LP but the prof didn't want to give them out.'" To say that this individual "did about as poorly at Yale as you reasonably do without assaulting a professor" is to reveal the extent of your idiocy. Don't try to speak with authority when you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

And don't bother eating shoe, go eat shit.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:55 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:[In what amounts to an uncurved system, the dude got 2 Ps and 7 "Crs", which may as well be code for "LP but the prof didn't want to give them out." That's laughable - he did about as poorly at Yale as you reasonably do without assaulting a professor. So yeah, he's going to get biglaw - probably at a high V firm in NYC - entirely on the strength of his UGPA and LSAT score (and whatever softs managed to get him in at Yale,) because, as NYAssociate pointed out, firms are 'desperate' to get Yallies.

So no, no sarcasm here. Just amusement.

Edit: Willing to restract statement, eat my shoe and appologize if credible information is presented that lots of profs at Yale give Crs instead of Ps, thus giving only HPs and Crs.


Yeah, it's fantastic to relax at YLS after years and years of intense sleepless overachieving and gunning to reach the Holy Grail. I really seriously appreciate not having to compete with my classmates anymore and focus on my goals, knowing I'll achieve them with the Yale name behind me.

What the profs will do is random and seemingly depend on their mood. It's unpredictable when they'll give out Hs - the entire class could get it or none, unlike HLS where I think it's based on a pre-determined curve.

But for you to equate CR with LP shows the extend of your ignorance of how things are done at YLS.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:10 pm

There are those with straight Hs and no offers, however, so it's not all flowers and light. Grades matter much less than background. Such folks are less likely to chime in here.

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romothesavior
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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby romothesavior » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:There are those with straight Hs and no offers, however, so it's not all flowers and light. Grades matter much less than background. Such folks are less likely to chime in here.


I find this absurdly difficult to believe, even ITE. The only way you could get high honors at Yale and not get an offer is if you were this guy:

Image

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:There are those with straight Hs and no offers, however, so it's not all flowers and light. Grades matter much less than background. Such folks are less likely to chime in here.


But I went straight from UG and don't have that much WE compared to many of my much-more accomplished friends and classmates, and I still have multiple offers from top NYC firms. Must be my good looks and charming personality. :lol:

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:07 pm

romothesavior wrote:Anonymous User wrote:
There are those with straight Hs and no offers, however, so it's not all flowers and light. Grades matter much less than background. Such folks are less likely to chime in here.


I find this absurdly difficult to believe, even ITE. The only way you could get high honors at Yale and not get an offer is if you were this guy:


Ouch. I have straight Hs at Yale, and I didn't do all that great at OCI. I've got one offer at a firm I really like, so I'm happy with my results, but firms definitely weren't falling all over themselves to hire me.

Sure, there are some other factors that may have led to fewer offers than normal (I have weird interests and wasn't shy about letting firms know that). But, ultimately, I think that grades just don't matter all that much here. That not only means that Ps can get you to top firms, it also means that Hs don't guarantee anything.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:. . . ultimately, I think that grades just don't matter all that much here. That not only means that Ps can get you to top firms, it also means that Hs don't guarantee anything.


The clerkship process should be different. I imagine judges value grades more than firms do.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby clintonius » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:35 pm

That's certainly possible, but it's also possible that Hs don't matter as much because people who hire are aware that grades at YLS don't often mean too much. It could be that all Ps and all Hs are on the same field, hiring-wise, for exactly this reason.

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Re: Straight Passing at YLS: OCI Chances - Poll

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:06 pm

E.K., YLS 2L, "On Life Without Grades" wrote:I am often asked some form of the following: “I know Yale doesn’t have grades. But do you really not have grades? And doesn’t that just mean that you are more competitive in other aspects?” The answers to those questions are yes, we do have grades, and yes, there is competition. But both are of a completely different sort than what you will find at any other law school. Let me explain.

First, our grading system is officially demarcated into Honors, Pass, Low Pass, and Fail, although I personally have never heard of anyone failing. But for all intents and purposes, grades are Honors or Pass, with the proportion of each doled out in any given class left almost to the complete discretion of the professor. The question I am usually asked next is how important are Honors? And to that I answer, not very. Undoubtedly, people with all Hs do very well in the job-search process, but so do people with all Ps. The differences exist at the margins. If you want a job with a litigation boutique that accepts only a dozen or so summer associates per year, then having a few Honors will surely help you to secure that job. Likewise, if you want a clerkship with a judge who sends clerks to the Supreme Court every year, the more Hs you have, the better. But there are plenty of incredibly interesting, prestigious jobs that do not require all, or even a majority of Hs. Experience, demonstrated interest, recommendations, and academic writing are usually valued more than the number of Hs on your transcript. This leads me to my second point.

Our grading system and curriculum allow a level of flexibility and freedom that is unparalleled. Students can tailor their educations however they see fit. They can do clinics, research with professors, write papers, participate in journals and other activities, perform community service, and do all of the many things that my fellow classmate listed in his March 19 post. Yale allows you to make your education truly yours without worrying about grade competition. And it is the myriad of ways that students do this that allows them to be unique, to market themselves to prospective employers, and to secure the variety of jobs that lead to the many incredibly interesting careers upon which YLS graduates embark. We compete not with each other, but with ourselves. We set our own goals, and we work hard to achieve them.

The YLS community is comprised of some of the best and most renowned faculty and administrators in the legal profession. They have a vested interest in helping the students here succeed. But equally important are the students themselves. People do not get into Yale solely because of their GPA and LSAT combination. People get into Yale because of who they are and what they have done. The students bring such diverse backgrounds to the law school that one learns from them and benefits from their existence just as much as one does from the faculty. And because of our size, we do all know each other and converse with each other on a daily basis. Students draw off of this combined energy, resources, and talent to do things many would not think possible prior to coming to Yale. It really is an unparalleled experience that many fail to appreciate until they come. For that reason, I would encourage any prospective student to visit the school, talk to the people, and sit in on classes. Do so with a critical eye, for Yale is not for everyone. But I do think Yale is for most people who are admitted, and most people admitted reach that conclusion themselves. Come see for yourself why grades really are such a small part of who we are and what we are able to accomplish.

http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/4881.htm




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