Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

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Anonymous User
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:26 pm

TTT-LS wrote:Others: this is why, with perhaps a few very narrow exceptions (e.g., full ride), nobody should ever go straight through from UG to LS. I'm making an educated guess that OP did so, based on his perspective on the working world, but the point applies even if he didn't. If you don't really understand what kind of work you'll be getting into in advance, you shouldn't dive in right away. I'm sure OP would agree with at least that last sentence.


TTT-LS,

I'm the OP. You are correct. I definitely did go straight through and I wholeheartedly agree with you that it was a mistake.

As for the others, it is true this breakup is probably clouding my judgment. It was very recent. I'm not going to go into details, but the way it went down was pretty devastating to me. I think it was a bit hasty for me to consider dropping out of law school completely, but I am certainly open to the idea of abandoning the law entirely post-grad. I ultimately think I will just grit my teeth through one or two years of firm life to pay back the loans and then start thinking about other alternatives.

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bk1
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:TTT-LS,

I'm the OP. You are correct. I definitely did go straight through and I wholeheartedly agree with you that it was a mistake.

As for the others, it is true this breakup is probably clouding my judgment. It was very recent. I'm not going to go into details, but the way it went down was pretty devastating to me. I think it was a bit hasty for me to consider dropping out of law school completely, but I am certainly open to the idea of abandoning the law entirely post-grad. I ultimately think I will just grit my teeth through one or two years of firm life to pay back the loans and then start thinking about other alternatives.


I think this is the most reasonable plan for your situation and wish you luck (and hope that you one day find an area of the law that you want to work in).

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General Tso
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby General Tso » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:56 pm

TTTGrad wrote:Your story is all too common. And the SA days are supposed to be the best (i.e., courtship). It's downhill after that. I feel for you. I can relate to your story in that I lost a hot girlfriend because I ignored her during my 2L summer. My head was so far into the biglaw sky that I forgot what was real and what was unreal. The reality was I sold my soul into a miserable profession and lost perhaps the best piece of ass I ever had as a serious girlfriend. Do yourself a favor, finish your SA gig, make money, drop out, pay some of the loans with what you made and get back with your sweetheart (if you really dig her). If the economy ever picks up, you can always go back and finish your last year.


LOL @ Scott Bullock claiming to have worked as SA at a big firm.

Burned down Seton Hall yet? How's the electrician business? :lol:

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TTT-LS
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby TTT-LS » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:11 pm

,
Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kiersten1985
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby Kiersten1985 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:17 pm

THIS is exactly why everyone should work in the legal industry BEFORE going to law school.

Also...what did you think it would be like exactly if you thought everyone saying it was a "grind" was just exaggerating?

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Scallywaggums
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby Scallywaggums » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:31 pm

Glad yer past the dropout.

Why are you thinking about ditching law when your only perspective is the most cutthroat scene in the field?

If you're set on instant loan repayment then alright, but it's very possible for you to find & land a satisfying legal job with 40-55 hour work weeks. Sure, you'll take more time paying back the loans, but you'll avoid being totally miserable for a full year or two and you'll make far more out of the gate than as a teacher.

At the very least it can't hurt to look into it and seriously consider it. Just uhhhh, don't tell the firm about it, and if you decide to stick with the plan or you can't land such a position and are forced to stick with the plan, then the plan's still waiting for you.

lawgunner75
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby lawgunner75 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:34 pm

I really think you should stick it out and finish your degree. You never have to use it. But you will have it forever. Don't throw away 2 years of education because you have spent 2 weeks in a Big Law job that you hate. Just finish the third year and get your law degree. Then you can decide what to do, workwise. I really think that is the smartest thing to do. Hang in there and good luck!!!!!

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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby westbayguy » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:35 pm

Cautionary tale about a friend of mine:

Went to law school because my sibling went, and I got good LSAT score.

Quit 2 units short of JD because I decided I didn't like the law. Went back to trade school to learn how to cook.

Spent the rest of my life: twice divorced, my kids are still lliving with me (they're 30), and I haven't had the same job for more than a year. No savings to speak of, can't even afford a car or a phone. Did I like my jobs along the way? Well Iliked the creativity, but the hours and work were long, tedious and I hated my self centered obnoxious employers-HEY that's just like the law- but without the money. Would I do it again- uh- not really.

Man up. Think REAL hard about the alternatives. Give it 5 years- if you still hate it - move on. But until you've paid down your debt, figured out what you WANT to do AND have a real plan for attaining it- stick to it. Especially in thiis environment. Look for alternatives that let you use your skills and degree in a positive way. I suspect your life and BIG LAW are conspiring to bring you down. There are MANY alternatives that will allow you to grow and prosper.

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ozarkhack
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby ozarkhack » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:54 pm

You might not have to suffer the legal field beyond graduation.

From Studentaid.gov's IBR loan forgiveness info:

What types of public service jobs will qualify a borrower for loan forgiveness under this program?
The borrower must be employed full time (in any position) by a public service organization, or must be serving in a full-time AmeriCorps or Peace Corps position. For purposes of the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, the term “public service organization” means –
...
Public education;...


I could be missing something (because I haven't really been looking for this), but I've not yet read anything about IBR's Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program that requires you to work in the field for which you studied.

So, finish up, get the JD (which will come in handy later). And be a teacher for 10 years.

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clintonius
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby clintonius » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:42 pm

Iunno the details about most IBR plans, but that they're based in income might actually not help if you're a teacher with a JD. I started teaching at a public school in the northeast and made mid-40s, and I believe the starting for a doctoral-level teacher (which you would be, at least under this particular school system's plan) was somewhere around double that. Of course, that's also a fantastic boon if you're considering doing it long-term.

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ozarkhack
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby ozarkhack » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:54 pm

clintonius wrote:Iunno the details about most IBR plans, but that they're based in income might actually not help if you're a teacher with a JD. I started teaching at a public school in the northeast and made mid-40s, and I believe the starting for a doctoral-level teacher (which you would be, at least under this particular school system's plan) was somewhere around double that. Of course, that's also a fantastic boon if you're considering doing it long-term.

At $80K, an IBR-adjusted plan for one who is $150K in debt = $795/monthly debt payment. Still much better than standard repayment plan. ... Of course, if you didn't stay in public service for 10 years, you'd be proper fucked.

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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:28 am

I think you really need to finish it out this summer. If you quit and later decide you still want in, you will not be able to use the current firm as a reference. You don't want to be known as a quitter if you stay in law. You will be doomed if you stay in the field and quit your SA job. If you put the firm on your resume as a reference, you will not get a good recommendation. If you don't put them on at all, potential employers will wonder what you were doing all summer. Finish the job.

While you continue to work through the summer, you will have plenty of time to decide which direction to go. If you decide to stay the course, you won't burn any bridges. On the other hand, if you decide to quit, you can always put the work experience on your resume when you go for a different field. Personally, if you are thinking about doing something else, I would go in healthcare management/administration.

I understand you are thinking about becoming a high school teacher. That is great. I just think you may be able to utilize your law school experience for something else that may be another option. You could even look into finishing your JD and getting a Masters of Health Administration or MBA with a concentration in healthcare management.

You may not necessarily need your JD for that field. However, you will start off around 120k if you have both advanced degrees. I just don't see how realistic it is to pay off 200k in student loan debt as a teacher. Just think if you ever buy a house, that is like two mortgages. At this point, I would explore ALL your options and see what is best. As others have already said, you may decide later on in the summer that you want to stick with what you have. Keeping your options open is not a bad idea. I would just make sure you think about what you really want to do. As tough as the legal job market is out there, I really like the healthcare management as a fall back. Not only do those fields pay a nice salary that is comparable to a biglaw salary, there are PLENTY of jobs out there.

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MorningHood
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby MorningHood » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:34 am

I'd quit.

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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:44 pm

chicagolaw2013 wrote:
TTTGrad wrote:Your story is all too common. And the SA days are supposed to be the best (i.e., courtship). It's downhill after that. I feel for you. I can relate to your story in that I lost a hot girlfriend because I ignored her during my 2L summer. My head was so far into the biglaw sky that I forgot what was real and what was unreal. The reality was I sold my soul into a miserable profession and lost perhaps the best piece of ass I ever had as a serious girlfriend. Do yourself a favor, finish your SA gig, make money, drop out, pay some of the loans with what you made and get back with your sweetheart (if you really dig her). If the economy ever picks up, you can always go back and finish your last year.


Ummm, mods, can ya just perma-ban this dude? He's SO OBNOXIOUS.

News flash, TTTGrad, no one cares what you think. And I'm guessing this girl left you because you called her the "best piece of ass" you've ever had. Girls aren't attracted to unsuccessful assholes, you may want to work on that.


Says the guy at DePaul University. Selfpwn.

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bk1
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby bk1 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Says the guy at DePaul University. Selfpwn.


Excellent use of anonymous. Very brave!

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steve_nash
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby steve_nash » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:12 pm

TTT-LS wrote:OP: man up & realize that few jobs are fun, and that a huge % of your compensation as a SA, and ultimately as an associate is tied to the tedious nature of biglaw work. If the work was all, or even mostly challenging/fun/interesting, salaries would crater. You are, of course, free to pursue work outside of biglaw, such as gov or PI. I haven't read the whole thread closely, but I don't recall you seriously considering that avenue after graduation. You should. As for the teaching thing, the grass is always greener on the other side, and I doubt you've seriously reflected on the positives and negatives that would come with that career choice.

Others: this is why, with perhaps a few very narrow exceptions (e.g., full ride), nobody should ever go straight through from UG to LS. I'm making an educated guess that OP did so, based on his perspective on the working world, but the point applies even if he didn't. If you don't really understand what kind of work you'll be getting into in advance, you shouldn't dive in right away. I'm sure OP would agree with at least that last sentence.


What he said. As a side note, as someone who has a close family member teaching high school, it's a rough job.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:
TTTGrad wrote:Your story is all too common. And the SA days are supposed to be the best (i.e., courtship). It's downhill after that. I feel for you. I can relate to your story in that I lost a hot girlfriend because I ignored her during my 2L summer. My head was so far into the biglaw sky that I forgot what was real and what was unreal. The reality was I sold my soul into a miserable profession and lost perhaps the best piece of ass I ever had as a serious girlfriend. Do yourself a favor, finish your SA gig, make money, drop out, pay some of the loans with what you made and get back with your sweetheart (if you really dig her). If the economy ever picks up, you can always go back and finish your last year.


Ummm, mods, can ya just perma-ban this dude? He's SO OBNOXIOUS.

News flash, TTTGrad, no one cares what you think. And I'm guessing this girl left you because you called her the "best piece of ass" you've ever had. Girls aren't attracted to unsuccessful assholes, you may want to work on that.


Says the guy at DePaul University. Selfpwn.


1) I'm a girl. Have you read any of my past posts? Guess not. (P.S. TTTGrad we know you or one of your crazy TTT friends is posting anonymously haha way to try to be a douchebag incognito.)

2) What does going to DePaul (which I'm very happy with since I'm staying in Chicago) have to do with me knowing that TTTGrad is an insufferable piece of trash? He's probably fucking ugly too.

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:00 pm

bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Says the guy at DePaul University. Selfpwn.


Excellent use of anonymous. Very brave!


Agreed. And his RC fail of my other posts, since, ya know, I'm not really a noob here, is absolutely remarkable.
Last edited by chicagolaw2013 on Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Johannes de Silentio
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby Johannes de Silentio » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:17 pm

T-10 school with good grades (presumably a good rank as well), and you want to teach. Well, go get a Ph.D. and teach law school. Let Professor Levinson teach you the way!

--LinkRemoved--

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Scallywaggums
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby Scallywaggums » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:08 pm

^ +1.

OP, what is it specifically about "the law" that you want to avoid, which you don't believe exists in high school teaching?
You have not yet responded about how you might feel about a government job working 40-55 hour weeks.
You mentioned you've always been a "striver", but your attitude toward being a teacher sounds a lot more like "that'd be a really easy thing to get into with great hours" moreso than "wow guys, I've come to a realization that high school teaching is my calling and I'm gonna be great at it". Correct me if I'm wrong about that. [I have nothing against high school teachers - my dad is - I'm speaking specifically about OP]

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bwv812
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby bwv812 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:24 pm

.
Last edited by bwv812 on Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Scallywaggums
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby Scallywaggums » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:00 pm

bwv812 wrote:
Johannes de Silentio wrote:T-10 school with good grades (presumably a good rank as well), and you want to teach. Well, go get a Ph.D. and teach law school. Let Professor Levinson teach you the way!

--LinkRemoved--

Scallywaggums wrote:^ +1.

Don't think JdS was serious, but getting a PhD with the sole goal of teaching law is ludicrous, and I think that Levinson should consider a working forsome CSO given how optimistic he seems to be (Oh, once you get hired [which everyone with realistic credentials apparently does], it's easy to move to a good location/better school... but then why exactly is anyone teaching at TTTs in shitty locations, again?).

And please, can a mod talk to Scally? His/her m.o. seems to be to make ignorant statements, get called on them, excuse those comments on the basis of ignorance and good intentions, then self-righteously demand an apology from those calling out his/her ignorance.


I was +1'ing the idea of academia as another option for using a law degree. Granted, it's extremely difficult to pull off, but it can be added to a list of "law" jobs that might satisfy OP.

You could have just said "pretty sure JdS was kidding around" and I could have said "well maybe the PhD is silly, but the idea of academia is worthy of note"

bwv812, I am participating in this thread in a genuine effort to help OP, while you are apparently on a crusade against me, and have made it a hobby to attack me at every chance you get for trivial matters, de-railing thread after thread. Perhaps we should get together for some angry sex? Or maybe a duel to the death? Perhaps a beer and a game of darts?

For the record, you're absolutely wrong about my m.o.:
I have appreciated all the times that people have offered information to alter/correct/broaden my knowledge.
Only once did I ask for an apology, and I did not demand it: I asked either for a response, or for an apology, and the post in question did not "call out my ignorance", but rather told me to "drop it", it being a question about school vs school comparisons, on the sole ground that all such comparisons are worthless. I already explained this in great detail, but your flagrant misrepresentation of the situation has dragged me, yet again, to defend myself at the expense of a fine thread.

Think long and hard about which of us is being more disruptive.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:29 pm

Thanks for original post. It seems to me that a lot of people who go to law school end up either hating law school or hating being a lawyer unfortunately. Perhaps that is why there is a strong payment incentive for certain law jobs- to keep people doing work that may not be very personally fulfilling. I thought the advice re: looking into areas other than big firm work was good. I think there was also a suggestion to wait for emotional disturbances to calm down before making big decisions (if not, I think it would be a good suggestion). I personally think that sticking with it is probably the best option- you will have a prestigious law degree that you could possibly incorporate into a successful career (other than practicing law) if you are creative. There are many JDs who go successfully into business, journalism, management, politics and other fields after briefly practicing law as a licensed attorney. I just think it would be better to have the JD even if you don't directly use it, rather than just having a story of how you dropped out of law school. On the other hand, many very successful people do drop out of school programs (in fact it almost seems to me that MOST of the very top successful and fulfilled people in the world have in some way made dramatic shifts in their lives such as dropping out of school at some point in order to do what really interests them- however, those people often have unique talents and circumstances).

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yinz
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby yinz » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:48 pm

Lawquacious wrote:in fact it almost seems to me that MOST of the very top successful and fulfilled people in the world have in some way made dramatic shifts in their lives such as dropping out of school at some point in order to do what really interests them- however, those people often have unique talents and circumstances.


For every Bill Gates, there are tens of thousands of Jeffrey Lebowkis (Dudes, if you will). The odds are stacked highly against those thinking "I'll change the world!"

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romothesavior
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Re: Not liking firm life as SA-thinking about quitting LS

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:54 pm

yinz wrote:
Lawquacious wrote:in fact it almost seems to me that MOST of the very top successful and fulfilled people in the world have in some way made dramatic shifts in their lives such as dropping out of school at some point in order to do what really interests them- however, those people often have unique talents and circumstances.


For every Bill Gates, there are tens of thousands of Jeffrey Lebowkis (Dudes, if you will). The odds are stacked highly against those thinking "I'll change the world!"


Blatant anti-bowling, anti-White Russian, anti-Dudeness trolling.

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