Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

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Anonymous User
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Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:04 am

I'm a rising 2L at CCN with a GPA of somewhere in the top 10%+ (Estimated). I have already made up my mind to try to transfer (mostly personal reasons), but my questions is whether it is worth it to transfer. I don't know if I'll make LR (at my school it's largely a crapshoot). I harbor some doubt as to whether I will be able to transfer, but assuming it's possible, I still have more doubts about whether it would be a good decision or not. Some threads on this forum have expressed the opinion that transferring is in general not worth it unless there is a huge jump. Others have expressed that employers tend to judge you based on your 1L performance and school pedigree. My aspirations are mainly to work for a good law firm, with a slight possibility of academia/clerking in the future.

Could transferring end up hurting my job prospects?

sophie316
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby sophie316 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:47 am

Where to?

Anonymous User
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:51 am

It can mes you up if you're not smart about it. I know people who claim the transfer hurt them - I don't believe it was literally the transfer (as in, employers didn't go "BAH, you got X GPA at Y law school where we would have hired you, but as soon as you transferred to Z law school - well no sir!"). What I do think can happen is if you transfer for potentially crappy reasons, weren't really competitive prior to the transfer for the jobs you try to get after the transfer (you're going to be viewed as a student from your old school even if you get more interviews at the new school - a transfer from Michigan to Yale is probably going to beat a transfer from Illinois to Yale), or otherwise have an ego/personality problem, you will run into issues. But if your transfer is smart then it won't present any problems at all.

At the end of the day, transferring raises questions - and if you can't answer them very well you're going to have problems.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:56 am

Possibly. There are some firms that you would have a shot at from the top 10% at CCN that you would not have a shot at from the median of HYS. Of course, it's impossible to determine where you would land at HYS. However, it seems illogical that an individual would give up a bird in hand (top 10%) for a shot at better prospects.

Ultimately, I would recommend that you not transfer for better prospect reasons.

Anonymous User
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:59 am

sophie316 wrote:Where to?


OP here. To HYS.

Edit: If it helps encourage debate, I'm paying sticker at CCN right now.

yabbadabbado
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby yabbadabbado » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:29 pm

If you can get in to HYS and it's your dream to go there, maybe you should do it. I highly doubt it will hurt you if you're talking about getting a regular firm job out of LS via 2L OCI. At worst, they are just going to judge you based on your 1L school and performance, so I can't see how you'd be in a worse position there.

The only way it *might* hurt is for clerkships, since being on LR is important and getting on LR as a transfer is usually harder. But it sounds like you won't know if you make LR before you switch schools.

However, if you're transferring to Y, it might not matter at all, since they do the best in terms of clerkships/academia anyway. I'd post this to the transferapps yahoo group and see if you can kick this around with someone who was in your shoes before.

Renzo
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby Renzo » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:36 pm

yabbadabbado wrote:The only way it *might* hurt is for clerkships.

Not true.

First, it will hurt you for clerkships. You're going to be behind the ball in making the kind of relationships with profs that get you good recommendations.

Second, close your eyes and imaging the following:

It's August, you're doing EIW at your new school with a screener from a firm you really want. The interviewer looks at your resume, and notices (unbeknownst to you) that you transferred out of his alma matter. Without saying so, he asks, "so, why did you leave [CCN] for [YHS]?" The next words out of your mouth might answer the question in a way that makes sense to the interviewer (oh, I really wanted to be close to my dying mother in her final months), or it might deeply offend them (I really felt like your alma mater just wouldn't offer me the kind of opportunities that [HYS] would).

rando
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby rando » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:42 pm

Renzo wrote:
yabbadabbado wrote:The only way it *might* hurt is for clerkships.

Not true.

First, it will hurt you for clerkships. You're going to be behind the ball in making the kind of relationships with profs that get you good recommendations.

Second, close your eyes and imaging the following:

It's August, you're doing EIW at your new school with a screener from a firm you really want. The interviewer looks at your resume, and notices (unbeknownst to you) that you transferred out of his alma matter. Without saying so, he asks, "so, why did you leave [CCN] for [YHS]?" The next words out of your mouth might answer the question in a way that makes sense to the interviewer (oh, I really wanted to be close to my dying mother in her final months), or it might deeply offend them (I really felt like your alma mater just wouldn't offer me the kind of opportunities that [HYS] would).


The damage done based on not having LR at HY is probably not that damning. And being able to get onto a secondary journal is certainly not out of the question. As for recs, OP still has a year to build those relationships if dead set on clerking.

For interviewing. Very true. But OP should research who the interviewers are. Not to mention, the opposite can always be true... transferring into interviewers school.

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burtonrideclub
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby burtonrideclub » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:43 pm

I wouldn't transfer, I think you are in a great position right now. Congratulations on your stellar grades. Out of curiosity, how many hours would you say you spent on school per week (including class etc)

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thesealocust
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:46 pm

Edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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underdawg
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby underdawg » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:56 pm

at least pre-ITE, the only good reason to transfer from CCN --> HYS is perhaps academia (well Y specifically). the other ones were striving/prestige. maybe people at WLRK don't worry that you're too much of a striver. after all, where else are you gonna strive to? i'm guessing any firm that legitimately thinks that it's the best law firm in the country won't really care.

maybe cravath thinks people really would rather work almost-WLRK hours at CSM and only earn CSM pay, or maybe even cravath realizes that the whole firm is most likely WLRK/munger/etc rejects. i wonder if S&C is the same way. from dpw/simpson/skadden on down, you will hear "quality of life" as a reason to go to said firm and thus i can plausibly believe that some people there chose it over higher ranked firms.

but maybe even at WLRK, the worry is that you'd jump ship to be a partner at ____ even though you might be partner material at WLRK in a few years. who knows? firms like WLRK promote just from within, i think.

so my wild guess is that it will depend on (1) the school of your interviewers (i think you will still run into some CCNers at callbacks at least); (2) how good the firm thinks it is; (3) whether it's a firm that poaches partners or one that develops them; (4) whether the firm thinks you're just trying to pay some bills til you can make academia.

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bwv812
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby bwv812 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:01 pm

.
Last edited by bwv812 on Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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underdawg
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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby underdawg » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:08 pm

iuno every once in a while i hear skadden is a cool place to work. wlrk often gets mentioned as cool but insane hours. s&c and csm never get mentioned as "cool," ever in my experience

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Re: Can transferring hurt my job prospects?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:52 am

burtonrideclub wrote:I wouldn't transfer, I think you are in a great position right now. Congratulations on your stellar grades. Out of curiosity, how many hours would you say you spent on school per week (including class etc)


OP here - First of all, thanks for the discussion. I did well, but I didn't really understand why my first semester. Towards the end of second semester I began to get a better idea of how I did on tests. Perhaps I absorbed more through osmosis. To answer your question, I'm not especially gifted; I just studied my ass off. I briefed every case, had my outlines done before finals began, took 4-5 practice tests (or all available) before the actual final. Keep in mind though, there isn't an exact 1:1 correlation between how much I worked and the grade I got.

I'm not too worried about my reasons for transferring. I have a fairly legitimate one (geographic preference + type of law I want to practice). Not sure what "striverness" means. What I'm more worried about is getting lost within the pack, whereas at my old school I would perhaps stand out more. But from what I'm hearing, it sounds like employers will recognize a good 1L performance no matter what school you're at when you go through OCI.




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