Pittsburgh Area Legal Market Forum

[smartin]

one would be astonished at how many lay people in Pittsburgh think Duquesne is a better law school than Pitt. I guess it's because the undergrad is better regarded, but still. FWIW, though, it probably has better employment prospects than many of its T4 peers bc of its location.

haha YES! This is funny but incredibly true. The red "D" ring has a characteristic all of its own in the city (and actually worldwide...so they claim)

I recently ran into an old middle school friend's mother, who asked what I was doing, and when I told her I was going to Vanderbilt Law her response was "oh that's nice, I hear that's a good school. Are you going to try to transfer to Duquesne if you do well?"

In high school, I got the same reaction when I informed people in my hometown that I would be attending Bryn Mawr/Smith/Mt. Holyoke.

Silliness.

[thesealocust]

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[joeshmo39]

We got a enough yinzers in here now to easily kill a case of IC Light and still be able to operate heavy machinery.

[budafied]

When I first thought of doing law, I was set on T14 or bust. But I realized after a couple years that I loved living in Pittsburgh and would be perfectly happy hitting 6 figures relatively early in my career and living in Pittsburgh all my life.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON

Where are the firms that pay (anywhere close to) 6 figure starting salaries and hire - collectively or otherwise - more than a tiny, tiny fraction of any school outside of the Top 14? Completely unrealistic goal even pre-ITE. I have no idea where you're getting this notion.

I've already been corrected, haha.

But it's important to note that 6 figures in NY/DC is like $60k in Pittsburgh, as a number of people pointed out above. The jobs in Pittsburgh available to Pitt grads in the top 20-30% seem to be pretty good, considering COL in the area.

[budafied]

We got a enough yinzers in here now to easily kill a case of IC Light and still be able to operate heavy machinery.

Oh Iron Shitty, you're almost as good as Keystone Light.

[badwithpseudonyms]

Great to come back and see people like pjo and joeshmo adding their insight. This thread is turning into a great resource for people interested in working in Pittsburgh.

One thing I'd add:

Remember, if you can manage a great scholly at ND or Vandy, you'll most likely have a full scholly at Pitt.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. Pitt only gave out seven full scholarships last year. My two-thirds in-state scholarship is the highest on LSN (compared to COA / There are a few OOS who have higher amounts). Now, my numbers weren't great, so maybe that had something to do with it. But they are significantly higher than either of Pitt's 75%s and I would have likely taken a full ride. They're just not in the business of giving out full scholarships. It was discussed in another thread, but it seems as though they prefer to spread the aid as wide as possible.

[jack duluoz]

Bad beat me to it. Pitt tends to hand out a little bit of money to a lot of people.

[joeshmo39]

Wow BadWithPseudonyms I didn't realize we were total numbers twins. Seeing your profile makes me feel better about my decision to ED UVA. I wouldn't have taken any of those over schollies over UVA, in fact BU probably would have ended up being about the same cost given what I'm paying for my apartment next year vs. Boston real estate.

In that vein, has anyone talked to firms in Pittsburgh for what they look for in associates? Top schools, local ties, local schools, etc.?

[pjo]

Great to come back and see people like pjo and joeshmo adding their insight. This thread is turning into a great resource looking for people interested in working in Pittsburgh.

One thing I'd add:

Remember, if you can manage a great scholly at ND or Vandy, you'll most likely have a full scholly at Pitt.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. Pitt only gave out seven full scholarships last year. My two-thirds in-state scholarship is the highest on LSN (compared to COA / There are a few OOS who have higher amounts). Now, my numbers weren't great, so maybe that had something to do with it. But they are significantly higher than either of Pitt's 75%s and I would have likely taken a full ride. They're just not in the business of giving out full scholarships. It was discussed in another thread, but it seems as though they prefer to spread the aid as wide as possible.

I was going to mention this but I didn't want to burst anyone's bubble. When I talked with Ms. Linsemeayer she said that Pitt flat out does not give Full scholarships (although I've heard a select few claim they or someone they know has gotten one). Badwithpsedonymns is being humble, his numbers were very good,he had 25%, 50% and 100% scholarship offers at other, much higher ranked schools. By all means, he wa a classic case of someone that out of mere leveraging should have recieved a full ride to Pitt. Fact is (as he stated) he didn't. This makes me believe that they just don't give out full rides. As was stated, they don't really play the numebrs game, but rather they like to give A LOT of medium and small scholarships, rather than try to steal high number candidates from other higher ranekd schools. I know you can leverage other scholarships with them; however, I wouldn't expect a full ride. I'm interest to see though if they begin to change how they do things because as I stated I think they're getting rid of their "Guaranteed" schoalrship, which may be funneled to offer more money to highly qualified applicants (maybe). I also think they were getting screwed by ppl applying super late in the cycle with numbers for the guaranteed scholarship forcing them to offer them money and probably messing up the way they budget scholarship. Why do I think this? Follow Pitt apps on LSN, you'll see at the end of the cycle they let in a lot of ppl off the waitlist surprisingly with scholly offers.

[OGR3]

Great to come back and see people like pjo and joeshmo adding their insight. This thread is turning into a great resource for people interested in working in Pittsburgh.

One thing I'd add:

Remember, if you can manage a great scholly at ND or Vandy, you'll most likely have a full scholly at Pitt.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. Pitt only gave out seven full scholarships last year. My two-thirds in-state scholarship is the highest on LSN (compared to COA / There are a few OOS who have higher amounts). Now, my numbers weren't great, so maybe that had something to do with it. But they are significantly higher than either of Pitt's 75%s and I would have likely taken a full ride. They're just not in the business of giving out full scholarships. It was discussed in another thread, but it seems as though they prefer to spread the aid as wide as possible.

Good point. I totally forgot about your example from earlier in the cycle.

[badwithpseudonyms]

Wow BadWithPseudonyms I didn't realize we were total numbers twins. Seeing your profile makes me feel better about my decision to ED UVA. I wouldn't have taken any of those over schollies over UVA, in fact BU probably would have ended up being about the same cost given what I'm paying for my apartment next year vs. Boston real estate.

In that vein, has anyone talked to firms in Pittsburgh for what they look for in associates? Top schools, local ties, local schools, etc.?

I didn't take any of them either. You know I'm actually ED too, right? (UVA considers an "early decision" February 27th!) I had a few negatives working against me (mediocre, relatively unknown UG, took a LSAT I wasn't prepared for), but overall it was an okay cycle. Still, UVA was head and shoulders above the next best thing. And, from the people I've met on TLS and my perception of UVA, the culture is a good fit.

I can't directly answer your question, but as far as you and me are concerned, Martindale lists 130 UVA grads in Pittsburgh, and between the Classes of 2007, 2008, and 2009, five UVA grads went to Buchanan Ingersoll, Jones Day, and K&L Gates. (Any of which I'd be more than okay with.) NOTE: I can't get the WVU grads out of my UVA search, so I'm not sure what the actual number is.

[badwithpseudonyms]

pjo, pm me and let me know how the LSAT went. I see there's an uprising over the 4th LG, but I haven't followed the discussion closely.

I think your point about Pitt being handcuffed to mediocre candidates applying late in the cycle is on point. They would be much better served to abandon the "guarantee", although I think that having such a cheap option locally does have its benefits.

[jack duluoz]

here a few good (but depressing) articles about the pitt legal market:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 42866.html

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 87151.html

[pjo]

here a few good (but depressing) articles about the pitt legal market:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 42866.html

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 87151.html

But what market, aside from Texas, is really doing all that well right now? I'm tempted to believe that the pittsburgh market realy isn't doing that bad. On a side note, does anyone happen to know of any list or anything of the top 10 legal markets for entry level associates at the moment? I only ask because anytime someone brings up such and such market someone always has something bad to say about it or how its not doing well. I'm just wondering which markets are currently the best of the worst

[thesealocust]

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[sdv]

Wow BadWithPseudonyms I didn't realize we were total numbers twins. Seeing your profile makes me feel better about my decision to ED UVA. I wouldn't have taken any of those over schollies over UVA, in fact BU probably would have ended up being about the same cost given what I'm paying for my apartment next year vs. Boston real estate.

In that vein, has anyone talked to firms in Pittsburgh for what they look for in associates? Top schools, local ties, local schools, etc.?

The most information I got was that firms look, first and foremost, for candidates with ties to the region and a real and honest desire to live and work in Pittsburgh. Beyond that, I confess my ignorance. As far as employment stats go, however, I think it's important to keep in mind the fact that there is less competition for Pittsburgh jobs than there is for jobs in many other cities - ny is something like 30 times bigger than Pittsburgh is, and is obviously much more in demand. Not to say anything is rosy or that prospects are even positive, but rather that numbers can be misleading when considering secondary markets.

[balzern]

Anyone want to comment on when the Pittsburgh legal market is expected to get back on its feet?

[thesealocust]

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[TTTGrad]

Anyone want to comment on when the Pittsburgh legal market is expected to get back on its feet?

May I suggest a time machine?

Set the timer to 1970 and hope everyday repeats itself like it did in "Groundhog Day."

[sdv]

I'm pretty sure Pittsburgh is in better shape than it was in 1970.

With that said, that's pretty much the city's m.o.: everyone there loves it, but there are no new jobs and so "new" adults are forced to leave in droves.

To give a non cynical answer, though, the city isn't going to do anything contrary to national trends. As long as the national job market is down, the local market will reflect that. The difference comes in degree; if national job placement is down, say, 50%, Pittsburgh may be down 25%. The reverse is also true. Never too high, never too low. One of the benefits of being a relatively unimportant city on a national and global economic scale, as well as being a city that relies on the eternally steady health care sector for economic stability.

[budafied]

here a few good (but depressing) articles about the pitt legal market:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 42866.html

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 87151.html

Those articles are (3) and (7) years old. They both were written before the economy crashed and are extremely outdated.

EDIT: Though they may still be correct...

[TTTGrad]

I'm pretty sure Pittsburgh is in better shape than it was in 1970.

With that said, that's pretty much the city's m.o.: everyone there loves it, but there are no new jobs and so "new" adults are forced to leave in droves.

To give a non cynical answer, though, the city isn't going to do anything contrary to national trends. As long as the national job market is down, the local market will reflect that. The difference comes in degree; if national job placement is down, say, 50%, Pittsburgh may be down 25%. The reverse is also true. Never too high, never too low. One of the benefits of being a relatively unimportant city on a national and global economic scale, as well as being a city that relies on the eternally steady health care sector for economic stability.

Pittsburgh was one of the ten most populated cities in America during the '70s and boasted many corporate headquarters. Today it is a shell of a city it used to be and corporate flight has decimated Pittsburgh's standing in the business community.

[sdv]

Pittsburgh was one of the ten most populated cities in America during the '70s and boasted many corporate headquarters. Today it is a shell of a city it used to be and corporate flight has decimated Pittsburgh's standing in the business community.

Sigh. Pittsburgh was one of the 10 most populated cities in America from 1907 (when it incorporated the city of Allegheny) until around the end of WWII. It's last appearance on the top 10 list was in 1940. The steel industry began to collapse in the 1960's, leading to the steady decline of the city's economy until the 90's when the city successfully transitioned to medicine, health care, and technology as the backbone of its economy. UPMC is, I believe, the largest health care corporation in the US (I could be wrong about that). the 1970's was a GREAT time to be a Pittsburgh sports fan, but the economy was already plummeting.


This is what the thread was originally about, right? totally!

[jack duluoz]

here a few good (but depressing) articles about the pitt legal market:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 42866.html

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 87151.html

Those articles are (3) and (7) years old. They both were written before the economy crashed and are extremely outdated.

EDIT: Though they may still be correct...

yea, sorry, i meant to mention the dates, but forgot.

For the record, I am starting at Pitt in the fall, and am not some JDU troll bearing bad news.

I have a nice anecdote that i feel sums up the legal market today, for most people outside of HYS type schools.

Last week, i talked to a parent whose kid transferred to a T40-50 institution from a rancid TTT, and wrote onto law review. They received an offer from every firm they interviewed with at OCI. The other day, i mentioned this to someone, and they said "oh, my relative was top 5% there, and is now doing doc review." Then they said "but it's cool, their significant other was in a similar class rank and is making a ton of money."

The moral of the story is that we're all taking a risk that may or may not pay off.

[smartin]

sigh

Maybe do some research in the history of Pennsylvania's second largest city before you post?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/featur ... orida.html

I'm pretty sure Pittsburgh is in better shape than it was in 1970.

With that said, that's pretty much the city's m.o.: everyone there loves it, but there are no new jobs and so "new" adults are forced to leave in droves.

To give a non cynical answer, though, the city isn't going to do anything contrary to national trends. As long as the national job market is down, the local market will reflect that. The difference comes in degree; if national job placement is down, say, 50%, Pittsburgh may be down 25%. The reverse is also true. Never too high, never too low. One of the benefits of being a relatively unimportant city on a national and global economic scale, as well as being a city that relies on the eternally steady health care sector for economic stability.

Pittsburgh was one of the ten most populated cities in America during the '70s and boasted many corporate headquarters. Today it is a shell of a city it used to be and corporate flight has decimated Pittsburgh's standing in the business community.