Suit Question

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athenian
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Re: Suit Question

Postby athenian » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:16 pm

If going to go the black suit route, ditch the jacket as soon as possible (if they're ok with it). Black slacks with a shirt and tie are infinitely easier to pull off than the full black suit (you will look like you work at a funeral home).

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BunkMoreland
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Re: Suit Question

Postby BunkMoreland » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:17 am

I'm pleased that my fellow brethren have heartily denounced the black suit in this thread. Go go men's fashion!

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jayn3
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Re: Suit Question

Postby jayn3 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:33 am

Thomas Jefferson wrote:Novice advice, at best.


aren't you an 0L?

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Grizz
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Re: Suit Question

Postby Grizz » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:35 am

Thomas Jefferson wrote:Novice advice, at best.


+1

People who don't know any better see dark suits (dark navy/charcoal) and assume they are black.

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Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Suit Question

Postby Thomas Jefferson » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:45 am

jayn3 wrote:
Thomas Jefferson wrote:Novice advice, at best.


aren't you an 0L?


Yes, but how does that matter as to fashion advice? Anyone advising men to wear black suits isn't giving good fashion advice. I don't need law school experience to know that. Some of the advice was decent, such as NEVER have wrinkles; some was eh, such as color and pattern matching (patterns can be matched if done right, it's just very hard to do, and it's best if your tie goes with but doesn't have the same color as your shirt, such as a light blue shirt with a yellow tie, but it is still wise to tell people to avoid pattern matching unless they know how to do it and an exact-color matching tie is better than a clashing tie); and some was bad, such as telling men to wear a black suit.

Edited for grammar.
Last edited by Thomas Jefferson on Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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ConMan345
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Re: Suit Question

Postby ConMan345 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:47 am

So I've worked in formal business environments and know people who have (I just polled them--wall street, biglaw, etc.). Black suits aren't the norm, but they definitely don't seem to be any kind of faux pas.

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thesealocust
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Re: Suit Question

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:50 am

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ConMan345
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Re: Suit Question

Postby ConMan345 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:59 am

thesealocust wrote:
ConMan345 wrote:So I've worked in formal business environments and know people who have (I just polled them--wall street, biglaw, etc.). Black suits aren't the norm, but they definitely don't seem to be any kind of faux pas.


I still strongly suspect people are just dumb. In my entire life, I don't think I've ever seen somebody wearing a black suit at work. I've seen some mighty charcoaly charcoals, but not straight up black.

Haha, well, they're not dumb, but I could see their (and my) memories being fuzzy on dark charcoal versus BLACKEST BLACK JET.

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angiej
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Re: Suit Question

Postby angiej » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:08 am

Please accept my deepest apologies for trying to be helpful and giving my own $0.02. And thank you for reminding me what ass holes most of you people are.

I do not contribute to these boards unless I think I can be helpful. My intentions were good. I am going on my EIGHTH year working in the legal world. My first three years, while not in NY, were in Chicago, which I think is a pretty good gauge on fashion. Part of my duties at my current firm are to organize and schedule 3L interviews. This means I am speaking with the partners about the interviews and hearing their comments about resumes, professionalism, which credentials they are looking for (or believe are required) and which things they are willing to look over. The post I quoted was created after a long conversation with 3-4 of the partners about how frusturating it is to have all of these "idiot law students who have obviously never been in the real world" and their non-black suits and wrinkles and matching a patterned shirt with a patterned tie. I'm glad TLSers are apparently a step above this, but I thought some of you would find my real world experience helpful. I'm guessing a lot of you have never spent more than a summer working at a law firm (at best). Most of you are obviously clueless, you have made comments/concerns with concerns about looking too formal for an INTERVIEW. Hello!? Its not a garden party!!! You want to look formal! You want to look like you belong to be working there! Its better to be over dressed than under. But believe me, a black suit is the norm.

A'nold - best of luck on your interview.

yabbadabbado
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Re: Suit Question

Postby yabbadabbado » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:55 am

Black suits are bad, but I've seen far worse on men at OCI and job fairs. Dirty, unpolished shoes (usually duckbill slip-ons, yuck), sneakers with suits, dirty ties, novelty ties, suits that are too big/too small, jackets that still have the basting thread on the vent or the tag still on the sleeve, improperly altered suits, dark blue, red, khaki, and even black shirts, long hair, beards, etc.

Bottom line is that most interviewers are going to cut a little slack if you don't look absolutely perfect. They know law students these days have know clue about how to dress professionally and such. Just do your best to look neat, clean, pressed, and presentable.

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snowpeach06
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Re: Suit Question

Postby snowpeach06 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:33 am

angiej wrote:Please accept my deepest apologies for trying to be helpful and giving my own $0.02. And thank you for reminding me what ass holes most of you people are.

I do not contribute to these boards unless I think I can be helpful. My intentions were good. I am going on my EIGHTH year working in the legal world. My first three years, while not in NY, were in Chicago, which I think is a pretty good gauge on fashion. Part of my duties at my current firm are to organize and schedule 3L interviews. This means I am speaking with the partners about the interviews and hearing their comments about resumes, professionalism, which credentials they are looking for (or believe are required) and which things they are willing to look over. The post I quoted was created after a long conversation with 3-4 of the partners about how frusturating it is to have all of these "idiot law students who have obviously never been in the real world" and their non-black suits and wrinkles and matching a patterned shirt with a patterned tie. I'm glad TLSers are apparently a step above this, but I thought some of you would find my real world experience helpful. I'm guessing a lot of you have never spent more than a summer working at a law firm (at best). Most of you are obviously clueless, you have made comments/concerns with concerns about looking too formal for an INTERVIEW. Hello!? Its not a garden party!!! You want to look formal! You want to look like you belong to be working there! Its better to be over dressed than under. But believe me, a black suit is the norm.

A'nold - best of luck on your interview.


What do females usually wear to interviews? I HATE suits. Can we pull off a fancy shift dress (you know what that is right?), or pencil skirt and top? Or is that stuff too fashiony and makes it seem like we care more about the outfit than being professional?

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angiej
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Re: Suit Question

Postby angiej » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:29 am

snowpeach06 wrote:
angiej wrote:Please accept my deepest apologies for trying to be helpful and giving my own $0.02. And thank you for reminding me what ass holes most of you people are.

I do not contribute to these boards unless I think I can be helpful. My intentions were good. I am going on my EIGHTH year working in the legal world. My first three years, while not in NY, were in Chicago, which I think is a pretty good gauge on fashion. Part of my duties at my current firm are to organize and schedule 3L interviews. This means I am speaking with the partners about the interviews and hearing their comments about resumes, professionalism, which credentials they are looking for (or believe are required) and which things they are willing to look over. The post I quoted was created after a long conversation with 3-4 of the partners about how frusturating it is to have all of these "idiot law students who have obviously never been in the real world" and their non-black suits and wrinkles and matching a patterned shirt with a patterned tie. I'm glad TLSers are apparently a step above this, but I thought some of you would find my real world experience helpful. I'm guessing a lot of you have never spent more than a summer working at a law firm (at best). Most of you are obviously clueless, you have made comments/concerns with concerns about looking too formal for an INTERVIEW. Hello!? Its not a garden party!!! You want to look formal! You want to look like you belong to be working there! Its better to be over dressed than under. But believe me, a black suit is the norm.

A'nold - best of luck on your interview.


What do females usually wear to interviews? I HATE suits. Can we pull off a fancy shift dress (you know what that is right?), or pencil skirt and top? Or is that stuff too fashiony and makes it seem like we care more about the outfit than being professional?


I hate suits too - when I have to dress up I do a 3/4 length skirt or dress (or shorter - as long as it is below the knee) combined with a suit jacket or a suit jacket that has 3/4 sleeves (my favorite). Pencil skirts are great and the shift dress should work as long a sit fits your body well (I've seen some that look like a big night shirt). It still looks professional BUT feminine and young. I feel so "old" in "Hilary Style" pantsuits. I think a common misconception is that for younger ladies, to look professional means boring or too old. I'll PM you a link to something I wrote about this (to avoid the flack I previously received).

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snowpeach06
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Re: Suit Question

Postby snowpeach06 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:35 am

angiej wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:
angiej wrote:Please accept my deepest apologies for trying to be helpful and giving my own $0.02. And thank you for reminding me what ass holes most of you people are.

I do not contribute to these boards unless I think I can be helpful. My intentions were good. I am going on my EIGHTH year working in the legal world. My first three years, while not in NY, were in Chicago, which I think is a pretty good gauge on fashion. Part of my duties at my current firm are to organize and schedule 3L interviews. This means I am speaking with the partners about the interviews and hearing their comments about resumes, professionalism, which credentials they are looking for (or believe are required) and which things they are willing to look over. The post I quoted was created after a long conversation with 3-4 of the partners about how frusturating it is to have all of these "idiot law students who have obviously never been in the real world" and their non-black suits and wrinkles and matching a patterned shirt with a patterned tie. I'm glad TLSers are apparently a step above this, but I thought some of you would find my real world experience helpful. I'm guessing a lot of you have never spent more than a summer working at a law firm (at best). Most of you are obviously clueless, you have made comments/concerns with concerns about looking too formal for an INTERVIEW. Hello!? Its not a garden party!!! You want to look formal! You want to look like you belong to be working there! Its better to be over dressed than under. But believe me, a black suit is the norm.

A'nold - best of luck on your interview.


Tell me about it. I feel no desire to sacrifice my sense of style, and feel like a frumpy old lady when I'm not. Anyway, thanks for the advice.

What do females usually wear to interviews? I HATE suits. Can we pull off a fancy shift dress (you know what that is right?), or pencil skirt and top? Or is that stuff too fashiony and makes it seem like we care more about the outfit than being professional?


I hate suits too - when I have to dress up I do a 3/4 length skirt or dress (or shorter - as long as it is below the knee) combined with a suit jacket or a suit jacket that has 3/4 sleeves (my favorite). Pencil skirts are great and the shift dress should work as long a sit fits your body well (I've seen some that look like a big night shirt). It still looks professional BUT feminine and young. I feel so "old" in "Hilary Style" pantsuits. I think a common misconception is that for younger ladies, to look professional means boring or too old. I'll PM you a link to something I wrote about this (to avoid the flack I previously received).

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Cardboardbox
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Re: Suit Question

Postby Cardboardbox » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:58 am

Oh no, not this argument again, didn't we have the same one just a few months ago?

Being a 0L I can't comment on the legal world, but definently in the finance world in NYC, black is far from a no-no in professional settings. I've worked at a major invesment bank before and am working at another one now. The one I work at now is a lot more of a relaxed atmosphere as opposed to the old one, and while I don't see black suits often here, I do see them and these people aren't some kind of pariahs. The interesting thing is, at the one I worked before, which was A LOT more uptight, black almost seemed the norm.

06072010
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Re: Suit Question

Postby 06072010 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:03 am

Cardboardbox wrote:Oh no, not this argument again, didn't we have the same one just a few months ago?

Being a 0L I can't comment on the legal world, but definently in the finance world in NYC, black is far from a no-no in professional settings. I've worked at a major invesment bank before and am working at another one now. The one I work at now is a lot more of a relaxed atmosphere as opposed to the old one, and while I don't see black suits often here, I do see them and these people aren't some kind of pariahs. The interesting thing is, at the one I worked before, which was A LOT more uptight, black almost seemed the norm.


This is what I was saying. I didn't see black often (and my firm has a strict dress code) but when i did the other lawyers weren't throwing poo on them. But it was pretty rare to see a black suit. I kept one black suit on my door as an "oh shit" suit and wore the other one once or twice when the dry cleaning peeps didn't hold up their "by 7pm" side of the bargain. Nobody threw me out of the office. But I usually made sure I wore a patterned or colored shirt with it. Black suit, white shirt makes me feel like Elwood Blues.

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Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Suit Question

Postby Thomas Jefferson » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:40 pm

angiej wrote:Please accept my deepest apologies for trying to be helpful and giving my own $0.02. And thank you for reminding me what ass holes most of you people are.

I do not contribute to these boards unless I think I can be helpful. My intentions were good. I am going on my EIGHTH year working in the legal world. My first three years, while not in NY, were in Chicago, which I think is a pretty good gauge on fashion. Part of my duties at my current firm are to organize and schedule 3L interviews. This means I am speaking with the partners about the interviews and hearing their comments about resumes, professionalism, which credentials they are looking for (or believe are required) and which things they are willing to look over. The post I quoted was created after a long conversation with 3-4 of the partners about how frusturating it is to have all of these "idiot law students who have obviously never been in the real world" and their non-black suits and wrinkles and matching a patterned shirt with a patterned tie. I'm glad TLSers are apparently a step above this, but I thought some of you would find my real world experience helpful. I'm guessing a lot of you have never spent more than a summer working at a law firm (at best). Most of you are obviously clueless, you have made comments/concerns with concerns about looking too formal for an INTERVIEW. Hello!? Its not a garden party!!! You want to look formal! You want to look like you belong to be working there! Its better to be over dressed than under. But believe me, a black suit is the norm.

A'nold - best of luck on your interview.


You call us clueless, yet we're the assholes? Yes there is such a thing as looking too formal, and it is bad, you wouldn't say it's ok to wear a tux to an interview would you? Maybe it's better than showing up in khakis and a polo, but saying over-dressed is better than under-dressed is a false choice, just dress appropriately. I would bet you any amount of money that a truly black suit is not the norm in professional business settings. I also don't get what your problem is. I said you gave some good advice. Some of it was also stuff that fails mens fashion 101 (black suits are a no-no outside off funerals (although I do think you can do some fun things with them as evening wear) is one of the first pieces of fashion advice to give any guy).

Whoever mentioned unpolished shoes and un/poorly-tailored suits as among the worst fashion mistakes gets a cookie from the 0L fashion police.
Image

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NayBoer
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Re: Suit Question

Postby NayBoer » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:48 pm

I'm much more ambivalent than everyone else on the black suit thing, but maybe that's just because San Francisco is a dress-down sort of place. But I don't even own a black suit now.

I think wearing the same tie twice is much worse than wearing the same suit three times.

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ConMan345
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Re: Suit Question

Postby ConMan345 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:58 pm

From the GQ style guy, who I trust far more than anyone here:

"Some of the gents up at the GQ office wear black suits by day, and they certainly look sharp. I like to look slightly more dull, personally. I also find that in broad daylight, black suits tend to give off a funereal, clerical, Amish, or possibly satanic vibe. I say save your black suit for funerals and nights on the town. Black is not wrong or forbidden, and it does work for that certain kind of guy who wears experimental footwear and a Caesar haircut, but for those of us who like to blend in, it’s a bit severe."

It is far from settled.

I prefer charcoal anyway.

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jayn3
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Re: Suit Question

Postby jayn3 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:02 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:What do females usually wear to interviews? I HATE suits. Can we pull off a fancy shift dress (you know what that is right?), or pencil skirt and top? Or is that stuff too fashiony and makes it seem like we care more about the outfit than being professional?

what about those of us who hate skirts? can we wear a pantsuit without looking exceedingly boring? i feel way more professional in pants than in skirts.

06072010
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Re: Suit Question

Postby 06072010 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:39 pm

jayn3 wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:What do females usually wear to interviews? I HATE suits. Can we pull off a fancy shift dress (you know what that is right?), or pencil skirt and top? Or is that stuff too fashiony and makes it seem like we care more about the outfit than being professional?

what about those of us who hate skirts? can we wear a pantsuit without looking exceedingly boring? i feel way more professional in pants than in skirts.


I think both are fine. I saw far more skirts than pantsuits, though.

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ozarkhack
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Re: Suit Question

Postby ozarkhack » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:44 pm

Image

Man. I'm gonna miss the South.

keg411
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Re: Suit Question

Postby keg411 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:33 pm

jayn3 wrote:
snowpeach06 wrote:What do females usually wear to interviews? I HATE suits. Can we pull off a fancy shift dress (you know what that is right?), or pencil skirt and top? Or is that stuff too fashiony and makes it seem like we care more about the outfit than being professional?

what about those of us who hate skirts? can we wear a pantsuit without looking exceedingly boring? i feel way more professional in pants than in skirts.


The rule of thumb for women and business is always wear a skirt suit for interviews because you never know how "formal/traditional" the employer is (at least in fields like law/business; if you know the interview is somewhere more casual, you can adjust accordingly).

Oh and women can wear black suits; it's different for us :).

jhett
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Re: Suit Question

Postby jhett » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:50 pm

Man, this is why I love Hawaii. Throw on an aloha shirt and some khakis and you're good to go. No arbitrary fashion rules. I'm seriously thinking about practicing there after putting in a couple years at my East coast white-shoe firm.

Incidentally, I dress less conservatively (bold colors and patterns, European styles) than most others but there have been no repercussions as far as I can tell.

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BunkMoreland
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Re: Suit Question

Postby BunkMoreland » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:54 pm

Some of you are using anecdotal evidence in support of your position that the black suit is appropriate in professional business attire for men. This evidence seems limited to observing that "everyone does it" or at least "no one has been harangued for wearing black." In an age of duck-billed slip-ons, dark blue shirts with "J Garcia" ties from JC Penney being the norm, I humbly submit that evidence of what the typical law grad wears is far from sound advice on what is appropriate and proper, especially in a somber conservative profession like law.

notanumber
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Re: Suit Question

Postby notanumber » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:59 pm

Disclaimer: I'm just a 0L, but I am several years out of undergrad and have work experience in cognate fields.

Wearing a black suit to an interview will likely not be a huge problem, but in the eyes of many (as can be seen by the reaction on this forum) it screams "clueless" and "immature." Why risk coming off like that when you have a perfectly serviceable charcoal suit?

And yes, get a navy suit if you can. If OTR fits you then you can sometimes get great deals at a place like Nordstrom Rack. Well taken care of, it will last you for years.




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