Best non-T14 schools for big law?

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03121202698008
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri May 28, 2010 12:27 pm

Rawlsian wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Vandy is a good school, but I want to inject some skepticism ITT.

In the NLJ 2007 and 2008 rankings it was behind all other T14s and USC. In 2008 it was also behind BC.

The main point is that VULS actually made a slight % gain (possibly due to the top of the class choosing biglaw over clerking? wild speculation) and kept its position from the boom. No other school was able to make gains, and almost all others fell. GULC dropped from high 40s to low 40s and Cornell from low 60s to low 40s.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2428438260

The real question is how this will shake out in the future, as the market continues to change. I'm not sure anybody can answer that reliably.


A good point. But keep in mind that placement in clerkships has been enjoying parallel success, and Vandy is now outplacing several t-14's in art. III clerkships as well. Vandy is improving, and not just in placement statistics. Here are Vandy's recent classes' medians:

2010: 167, 3.74
2011: 168, 3.72
2012: 168, 3.71

I believe the median this year will move to 169. Granted, the median at several t14's will probably increase as well, but Vandy's student quality (understood by the numbers) is competitive with the lower t-14s; add a smaller class than most, and broad geographic placement, and I believe these placement trends will continue.

/end of my Vandy trolling


Medians are reflected in rankings but don't mean anything when it comes to employment.

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voice of reason
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby voice of reason » Fri May 28, 2010 7:34 pm

War Cardinal wrote:Yale is quite the Biglaw TTT


Just for the benefit of anyone reading this thread who doesn't understand why Yale's NLJ250 is similar to much lower-ranked schools: Yale sends a huge number of students to clerkships. These students get biglaw if they want it.

RisingMichigan3L
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby RisingMichigan3L » Fri May 28, 2010 8:02 pm

voice of reason wrote:
War Cardinal wrote:Yale is quite the Biglaw TTT


Just for the benefit of anyone reading this thread who doesn't understand why Yale's NLJ250 is similar to much lower-ranked schools: Yale sends a huge number of students to clerkships. These students get biglaw if they want it.


Man you need to stop sucking Yale's dick. There are people there who wanted biglaw and didn't get it. There are 3 Yalies at Cadwalader this summer. Somehow, if a Yale student is just overloaded with prestigious choices, I doubt they'd take Cadwalader.

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voice of reason
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby voice of reason » Fri May 28, 2010 8:13 pm

RisingMichigan3L wrote:
voice of reason wrote:
War Cardinal wrote:Yale is quite the Biglaw TTT


Just for the benefit of anyone reading this thread who doesn't understand why Yale's NLJ250 is similar to much lower-ranked schools: Yale sends a huge number of students to clerkships. These students get biglaw if they want it.


Man you need to stop sucking Yale's dick. There are people there who wanted biglaw and didn't get it. There are 3 Yalies at Cadwalader this summer. Somehow, if a Yale student is just overloaded with prestigious choices, I doubt they'd take Cadwalader.


Your comment is way out of bounds. Your example of Yalies at Cadwalader doesn't contradict my statement that they can have biglaw if they want it. People with Yale JDs and Article III clerkships can get biglaw. Yale's NLJ250 placement rate is comparable to Fordham and BC because more Yale graduates take clerkships than any other category of employment. Yale is unique in this respect but it illustrates why looking at NLJ250 placement alone can be misleading. Clearly if you want biglaw, Yale is a lot better than Fordham, but if you read the data naively, you might not understand why.

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Always Credited
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 28, 2010 8:17 pm

RisingMichigan3L wrote:
voice of reason wrote:
War Cardinal wrote:Yale is quite the Biglaw TTT


Just for the benefit of anyone reading this thread who doesn't understand why Yale's NLJ250 is similar to much lower-ranked schools: Yale sends a huge number of students to clerkships. These students get biglaw if they want it.


Man you need to stop sucking Yale's dick. There are people there who wanted biglaw and didn't get it. There are 3 Yalies at Cadwalader this summer. Somehow, if a Yale student is just overloaded with prestigious choices, I doubt they'd take Cadwalader.


This is a depressingly terrible comment, in all the various ways that a comment can be terrible.

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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby RisingMichigan3L » Fri May 28, 2010 8:17 pm

Your example of Yalies at Cadwalader doesn't contradict my statement that they can have biglaw if they want it.


Apparently you can't read. The first sentence in my thread does contradict your statement. And I definitely wasn't stating that Yale's biglaw placement is akin to Fordham's. I was stating that not everyone at Yale can get biglaw.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Sun May 30, 2010 2:01 am

Always Credited wrote:
RisingMichigan3L wrote:
voice of reason wrote:
War Cardinal wrote:Yale is quite the Biglaw TTT


Just for the benefit of anyone reading this thread who doesn't understand why Yale's NLJ250 is similar to much lower-ranked schools: Yale sends a huge number of students to clerkships. These students get biglaw if they want it.


Man you need to stop sucking Yale's dick. There are people there who wanted biglaw and didn't get it. There are 3 Yalies at Cadwalader this summer. Somehow, if a Yale student is just overloaded with prestigious choices, I doubt they'd take Cadwalader.


This is a depressingly terrible comment, in all the various ways that a comment can be terrible.


+1, most fail i've seen in a comment in at least . . . 30 minutes

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romothesavior
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby romothesavior » Sun May 30, 2010 2:52 pm

So in order to refute the claim that some Yale students cannot get biglaw, you point out that 3 of them are at Cadwalader? Not to get all LSAT-speak on you, but wow... talk about a proposition not supporting a conclusion.

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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby Grizz » Sun May 30, 2010 3:00 pm

RisingMichigan3L wrote:--ImageRemoved--

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romothesavior
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby romothesavior » Sun May 30, 2010 3:11 pm

--ImageRemoved--

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War Cardinal
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby War Cardinal » Sun May 30, 2010 3:20 pm

romothesavior wrote:--ImageRemoved--


False.

--ImageRemoved--

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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby blsingindisguise » Sun May 30, 2010 8:18 pm

It's important not to confuse NLJ 250 placement with "chances at BigLaw". 100% of Yale could get biglaw if they wanted it, but a significant percent of its student body makes other choices (prestigious clerkships, fellowships, govt stuff, boutiques, etc.), many of which are considerably more competitive than getting an NLJ 250 job. The same is probably going to be true of GULC relative to a lower-ranked school with higher NLJ 250 numbers (not that everyone at GULC could get BigLaw, but the chances are probably better than at lower-ranked schools).

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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby Rawlsian » Sun May 30, 2010 11:12 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:It's important not to confuse NLJ 250 placement with "chances at BigLaw". 100% of Yale could get biglaw if they wanted it, but a significant percent of its student body makes other choices (prestigious clerkships, fellowships, govt stuff, boutiques, etc.), many of which are considerably more competitive than getting an NLJ 250 job. The same is probably going to be true of GULC relative to a lower-ranked school with higher NLJ 250 numbers (not that everyone at GULC could get BigLaw, but the chances are probably better than at lower-ranked schools).


I think the bolded part is wrong. The only lower ranked school with higher NLJ numbers than GULC is Vandy;and Vandy does better with Art. III clerkships--the only other career path we can measure. Of course, perhaps GULC does better at PI (I know less than 10% of Vandy goes into PI, I don't know the numbers on GULC).

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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby Grizz » Mon May 31, 2010 11:43 am

Rawlsian wrote:Of course, perhaps GULC does better at PI (I know less than 10% of Vandy goes into PI, I don't know the numbers on GULC).


I blame this on Vandy's weak LRAP.

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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby DanInALionsDen » Mon May 31, 2010 12:16 pm

Obviously I have some bias here, but I think Georgetown isn't given a fair shake when considering biglaw rankings. Georgetown sends numerically more of its grads to biglaw than any other law school. I think it's pretty impressive that firms want almost 300 GULC grads a year.

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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby DanInALionsDen » Mon May 31, 2010 12:21 pm

Rawlsian wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:It's important not to confuse NLJ 250 placement with "chances at BigLaw". 100% of Yale could get biglaw if they wanted it, but a significant percent of its student body makes other choices (prestigious clerkships, fellowships, govt stuff, boutiques, etc.), many of which are considerably more competitive than getting an NLJ 250 job. The same is probably going to be true of GULC relative to a lower-ranked school with higher NLJ 250 numbers (not that everyone at GULC could get BigLaw, but the chances are probably better than at lower-ranked schools).


I think the bolded part is wrong. The only lower ranked school with higher NLJ numbers than GULC is Vandy;and Vandy does better with Art. III clerkships--the only other career path we can measure. Of course, perhaps GULC does better at PI (I know less than 10% of Vandy goes into PI, I don't know the numbers on GULC).


Again, I know the value of my opinion here may be suspect, but I spoke to the career services office at Georgetown and they told me that year after year they have a very difficult time getting students to apply for clerkships, which could affect this statistic. They also told me that many GULC students are unwilling to apply to any circuit court but second and DC. Just some insight I thought I'd throw out there.

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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby OG Loc » Mon May 31, 2010 12:37 pm

Rawlsian wrote:
A good point. But keep in mind that their placement in clerkships has been enjoying parallel success. And Vandy is now outplacing several t-14's in art. III clerkships. Vandy is improving, and not just in placement statistics. Here are Vandy's recent class medians:

2010: 167, 3.74
2011: 168, 3.72
2012: 168, 3.71

I believe the median this year will move to 169. Granted, the median at several t14's will probably increase as well, but Vandy's student quality (understood by the numbers) is competitive with the lower t-14s; add a smaller class than most, and broad geographic placement, and I believe these placement trends will continue.

/end of my Vandy trolling


I might be wrong, but I believe the ABA's change in multiple LSAT reporting policy (taking the high score instead of averaging them) didn't go into effect soon enough for the class of '10 to benefit.

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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby OG Loc » Mon May 31, 2010 12:41 pm

romothesavior wrote:--ImageRemoved--


Lol. Your Yale degree does not impress the prestige penguin.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby megaTTTron » Mon May 31, 2010 12:43 pm

OG Loc wrote:
romothesavior wrote:--ImageRemoved--


Lol. Your Yale degree does not impress the prestige penguin.


ahahahahah so poetic.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Mon May 31, 2010 9:07 pm

OG Loc wrote:
Lol. Your Yale degree does not impress the prestige penguin.


OG Loc wrote:
I might be wrong, but I believe the ABA's change in multiple LSAT reporting policy (taking the high score instead of averaging them) didn't go into effect soon enough for the class of '10 to benefit.


Wut?

Tautology
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby Tautology » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:06 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
If Vandy sold out and took splitters, they could hit 170.


There's nothing wrong with splitters!

09042014
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:08 pm

Tautology wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
If Vandy sold out and took splitters, they could hit 170.


There's nothing wrong with splitters!


We are lazy pieces of shit! But laziness can be cured!

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Grizz
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:11 pm

Tautology wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
If Vandy sold out and took splitters, they could hit 170.


There's nothing wrong with splitters!


Except for yalls pitiful GPAs...



kidding!

Seriously though, I agree with DF's sentiment.

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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby Tautology » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:19 pm

rad law wrote:
Tautology wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
If Vandy sold out and took splitters, they could hit 170.


There's nothing wrong with splitters!


Except for yalls pitiful GPAs...



kidding!

Seriously though, I agree with DF's sentiment.


:)

I agree with DF too, laziness can be cured, especially when you actually care about what you're doing, if that is in contrast to UG. Now all I have to do is prove it.

I just wanted someone to stand up for us.

09042014
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Re: Best non-T14 schools for big law?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:20 pm

Tautology wrote: :)

I agree with DF too, laziness can be cured, especially when you actually care about what you're doing, if that is in contrast to UG. Now all I have to do is prove it.

I just wanted someone to stand up for us.


I have to put up, before I talk shit. But my understanding that is that splitters do very well in law school, but that's a lot of anecdotal evidence.




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