Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

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Renzo
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby Renzo » Wed May 26, 2010 9:47 pm

How is not being able to count a C&F issue, even if you get fired for it?

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Matthies
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby Matthies » Wed May 26, 2010 10:02 pm

Renzo wrote:How is not being able to count a C&F issue, even if you get fired for it?


The getting fired for it is a C&F issue in that you have to discopsle to them if you have ever been terminated, fired or asked to leave a job, inclduing expalining all cercosnatces behind it, the date, the name of your supervirosor, ther adress and phone number.

At least my app did, and I had to answer the question. bascily when working at a car parts store I asked the shift manager if I could take one of the tools home that we lent out for prople to work on thier cars. He told me fine, have it back in the morning. I got there for my shift at 9AM, but somome was in the store needing the tool at 8AM wehn the manager opend the doors. I told the head boss i had it and gave it to him, and he said I should have asked him if I coulf borrow it not shift supervsior so i was fired for misapprarating company equitment. The bar did not seem to care about that at all, or my 2 DUIs, or my public intox. But boy did they come dwon on me and a clammsate hard for not swtiching over our DL to the state of our school with in 30 days of moving here. I had to prove (in addition to having no tcikets for 10 years) that my DL from my sate was real, with a certifed letter and driving reciornd. then I had to write an expmlination on why I broke the law of not changing my DL over which had to be a sworn and notrited affidavit sent to the supremre court. Other people got called on for other, seemningly randon stuff compared to the stuff they did disclose, that it appeard to me and my freind that you coulf diclose that you spent 10 years in the fed pen abd be fine, but forget to list the adress of a house you lived in for six months five years ago in a state halfawa across the US and they put the goon ssquard on you.

Renzo
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby Renzo » Thu May 27, 2010 12:07 am

Matthies wrote:
Renzo wrote:How is not being able to count a C&F issue, even if you get fired for it?


The getting fired for it is a C&F issue in that you have to discopsle to them if you have ever been terminated, fired or asked to leave a job, inclduing expalining all cercosnatces behind it, the date, the name of your supervirosor, ther adress and phone number.

At least my app did, and I had to answer the question. bascily when working at a car parts store I asked the shift manager if I could take one of the tools home that we lent out for prople to work on thier cars. He told me fine, have it back in the morning. I got there for my shift at 9AM, but somome was in the store needing the tool at 8AM wehn the manager opend the doors. I told the head boss i had it and gave it to him, and he said I should have asked him if I coulf borrow it not shift supervsior so i was fired for misapprarating company equitment. The bar did not seem to care about that at all, or my 2 DUIs, or my public intox. But boy did they come dwon on me and a clammsate hard for not swtiching over our DL to the state of our school with in 30 days of moving here. I had to prove (in addition to having no tcikets for 10 years) that my DL from my sate was real, with a certifed letter and driving reciornd. then I had to write an expmlination on why I broke the law of not changing my DL over which had to be a sworn and notrited affidavit sent to the supremre court. Other people got called on for other, seemningly randon stuff compared to the stuff they did disclose, that it appeard to me and my freind that you coulf diclose that you spent 10 years in the fed pen abd be fine, but forget to list the adress of a house you lived in for six months five years ago in a state halfawa across the US and they put the goon ssquard on you.


I realize not disclosing it could be a C&F issue, but why would the bar care if you said, "yeah, turns out I can't count, so they fired me. My bad."

Oh, and are you on an iPhone or are you drunk?

Action Jackson
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby Action Jackson » Thu May 27, 2010 12:20 am

Renzo wrote:I realize not disclosing it could be a C&F issue, but why would the bar care if you said, "yeah, turns out I can't count, so they fired me. My bad."


Because it involves money. If you're accused of stealing money from your employer you've got a much bigger C&F issue than if you just screwed up at your job and got fired.

Posner
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby Posner » Thu May 27, 2010 2:45 am

...
Last edited by Posner on Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Action Jackson
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby Action Jackson » Thu May 27, 2010 9:15 am

Posner wrote:This is nothing complicated. Anyone who has taken Pro Res or passed the MPRE understands the basics, and can make a general statement towards the policies.


Exactly. The most basic red flag C&F in every state looks for is indiscretion in the workplace involving money. EVERY C&F cares about that. Whether or not a situation like OP might face, where an employer might accuse an employee of stealing $1000, is so serious that he might be disqualified is something ONLY an expert in the rules of a particular state can answer. Because, you know, basic legal research involves looking up cases. You did learn that, right?

But what's your advice for OP. Do nothing? Don't worry about it? That's fine, but if this turns out to be a major issue and OP is denied admission to the bar over it I'm sure he'll appreciate your advice.

And this is really my point to OP: Don't think this isn't serious. Don't freak out, but don't just do nothing and hope it goes away. Even if you think it's gone away today, in 3 years it might resurface very differently. Just be smart.

Finally, law school costs tens of thousands of dollars, at least. More like $100-$200k, for most. Adding in, what, a grand, max, to get real, professional legal advice about something that could potentially make a law degree worthless is a completely negligible cost. Again, if this was just as simple as "I forgot to put the right cover on my TPS report" no one would advise wasting money on a lawyer. But for something something that might amount to stealing from your boss? Just talk to a lawyer. You should be networking anyway.

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MURPH
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby MURPH » Thu May 27, 2010 9:22 am

If you offer to pay it back with your own money, then pull out a wad of cash equalling $1000, that would look really bad. :lol:

Action Jackson
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby Action Jackson » Thu May 27, 2010 9:28 am

Posner wrote:On the issue of bribe, I said "essentially bribe", as in this payment can be construed as "I am guilty, please do not report me." From the perspective of anyone with some work experience, no reasonable person would offer up $1k out of pocket for a mistake when they did not really do anything wrong.


Again, this is not the same as "Oops, the client decided to go with someone else." Someone handed OP a wad of cash and OP did not verify that he was given the correct amount of money. OP did something wrong. Period. If you go into a store and buy something and you're supposed to get $2000 back but only get $1000 you sure as hell aren't going to be like, "Oh well. No fault, no foul."

This is not just a simple workplace mistake. Like forgetting to refill the coffeemaker or ordering the wrong color pens. The rules for people that handle money is different, and often industry/workplace specific.

And we come back to my original suggestion: Just ask them if they want you to cover the loss. I find it so bizarre that people seem to somehow think that's an admission of guilt. "I know I screwed up. You can take it out of my wages" = "I stole your money"? What kind of idiot thinks like that?

As I mentioned in my original post, his employers likely have insurance that will cover the loss, so they might not even care, but at least he's trying to take responsibility for his mistake and show good faith in fixing it. That will help keep his employers that thinking, "He must have stolen it." Of course, I don't know OP's employers. They might not think that. Maybe they were super cool about this and the whole thing was put to bed quickly. But who knows? The alternative advice, given by Posner and others, is to just say and do nothing. Hmmm... who's more likely to have stolen money, the guy that offers to cover the loss out of his paycheck or the guy that just goes about his business and pretends like nothing has happened? Come on, is that really a tough call?

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby T14_Scholly » Thu May 27, 2010 9:57 am

There are engineers out there who accidentally drop $10,000 pieces of equipment and don't lose their job.

Action Jackson
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby Action Jackson » Thu May 27, 2010 10:49 am

T14_Scholly wrote:There are engineers out there who accidentally drop $10,000 pieces of equipment and don't lose their job.


And there are engineers that accidentally drop a $5000 piece of equipment and are fired. Or:

The rules for people that handle money is different, and often industry/workplace specific.

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Matthies
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby Matthies » Thu May 27, 2010 1:35 pm

Renzo wrote:
Matthies wrote:
Renzo wrote:How is not being able to count a C&F issue, even if you get fired for it?


The getting fired for it is a C&F issue in that you have to discopsle to them if you have ever been terminated, fired or asked to leave a job, inclduing expalining all cercosnatces behind it, the date, the name of your supervirosor, ther adress and phone number.

At least my app did, and I had to answer the question. bascily when working at a car parts store I asked the shift manager if I could take one of the tools home that we lent out for prople to work on thier cars. He told me fine, have it back in the morning. I got there for my shift at 9AM, but somome was in the store needing the tool at 8AM wehn the manager opend the doors. I told the head boss i had it and gave it to him, and he said I should have asked him if I coulf borrow it not shift supervsior so i was fired for misapprarating company equitment. The bar did not seem to care about that at all, or my 2 DUIs, or my public intox. But boy did they come dwon on me and a clammsate hard for not swtiching over our DL to the state of our school with in 30 days of moving here. I had to prove (in addition to having no tcikets for 10 years) that my DL from my sate was real, with a certifed letter and driving reciornd. then I had to write an expmlination on why I broke the law of not changing my DL over which had to be a sworn and notrited affidavit sent to the supremre court. Other people got called on for other, seemningly randon stuff compared to the stuff they did disclose, that it appeard to me and my freind that you coulf diclose that you spent 10 years in the fed pen abd be fine, but forget to list the adress of a house you lived in for six months five years ago in a state halfawa across the US and they put the goon ssquard on you.


I realize not disclosing it could be a C&F issue, but why would the bar care if you said, "yeah, turns out I can't count, so they fired me. My bad."

Oh, and are you on an iPhone or are you drunk?


Its just the fact you have to disclose it, after which they send a letter to your old job, just make sure your story and thiers is the same. Also, neither, i'm dsylexic and text-to-specch does not work well in TLS box, so u have to read it in my native tounge

Renzo
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby Renzo » Thu May 27, 2010 7:46 pm

Matthies wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Matthies wrote:
Renzo wrote:How is not being able to count a C&F issue, even if you get fired for it?


The getting fired for it is a C&F issue in that you have to discopsle to them if you have ever been terminated, fired or asked to leave a job, inclduing expalining all cercosnatces behind it, the date, the name of your supervirosor, ther adress and phone number.

At least my app did, and I had to answer the question. bascily when working at a car parts store I asked the shift manager if I could take one of the tools home that we lent out for prople to work on thier cars. He told me fine, have it back in the morning. I got there for my shift at 9AM, but somome was in the store needing the tool at 8AM wehn the manager opend the doors. I told the head boss i had it and gave it to him, and he said I should have asked him if I coulf borrow it not shift supervsior so i was fired for misapprarating company equitment. The bar did not seem to care about that at all, or my 2 DUIs, or my public intox. But boy did they come dwon on me and a clammsate hard for not swtiching over our DL to the state of our school with in 30 days of moving here. I had to prove (in addition to having no tcikets for 10 years) that my DL from my sate was real, with a certifed letter and driving reciornd. then I had to write an expmlination on why I broke the law of not changing my DL over which had to be a sworn and notrited affidavit sent to the supremre court. Other people got called on for other, seemningly randon stuff compared to the stuff they did disclose, that it appeard to me and my freind that you coulf diclose that you spent 10 years in the fed pen abd be fine, but forget to list the adress of a house you lived in for six months five years ago in a state halfawa across the US and they put the goon ssquard on you.


I realize not disclosing it could be a C&F issue, but why would the bar care if you said, "yeah, turns out I can't count, so they fired me. My bad."

Oh, and are you on an iPhone or are you drunk?


Its just the fact you have to disclose it, after which they send a letter to your old job, just make sure your story and thiers is the same. Also, neither, i'm dsylexic and text-to-specch does not work well in TLS box, so u have to read it in my native tounge

Fair enough. I've just never noticed it in any of your previous posts, so it looked out of place.

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Matthies
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Re: Character and Fitness - stupid mistake on the job

Postby Matthies » Thu May 27, 2010 7:58 pm

Renzo wrote:
Matthies wrote:Its just the fact you have to disclose it, after which they send a letter to your old job, just make sure your story and thiers is the same. Also, neither, i'm dsylexic and text-to-specch does not work well in TLS box, so u have to read it in my native tounge

Fair enough. I've just never noticed it in any of your previous posts, so it looked out of place.


Depends on what I'm doing, if I'm working and doing speech to text i can't have anouther window open in word and type at the same time and spell check it, then copy past in chat box. So when I'm dicataing something else (like now) I just type in the chat box and ophe for the best. but when I'm not I can use MS Word to spell check it and readp please to read it back to me before I copy.paste it in here.




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