3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

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BruceWayne
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:15 pm

What are some keys to getting a USAO internship for 1L? How hard is it to get one?

Voyager
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby Voyager » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:17 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
Voyager wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:Thanks for the informative post. As a 3L graduating in May that still can't find a job, I appreciate hearing about other people's experiences with the struggle.

You mentioned you applied to a shit ton of jobs. Did you look outside of big urban areas like NYC, DC, etc? I'm at an east coast t-14, and I'm trying to expand my job search to some areas that t-14 grads don't generally feed in to. I've gotten a few questions so far about why I would want to end up in some of these markets (like Pittsburgh, Memphis and Baltimore). Got any advice on how to handle them?



My posts above describe the entirety of what I did. Yes, I looked at DC... but was only considering the PMF there.

As for why a specific market. Get creative. You have family there (cousins, 2nd cousins, a dude you know that your best friend's cousin considers to be "kind of a brother"). You always planned on moving there. Who knows ? That should be the easy part of the sale. The difficult part is why they should hire you at all.

Yeah, I've just been making up a girlfriend that is from the area. Hopefully that'll work out eventually.


Heh. There you go. I think you should focus much more on the firm itself. Here is what I did for all my interviews:

1) Think about the target company. How do they see themselves? How do they describe themselves?

2) Extrapolate the sort of traits they are screening for based on (1). Yes, most law firms will be looking for similar things.

3) Build 3-4 stories that demonstrate those traits. Each story should be about 5-6 minutes long max.

4) Rehearse those stories until you have them down cold

Voyager
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby Voyager » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:20 pm

BruceWayne wrote:What are some keys to getting a USAO internship for 1L? How hard is it to get one?


Confidence, intelligence, knowledge about what AUSAs do. Decent grades from a good school. A COMMITTMENT TO PUBLIC SERVICE (this is huge).

Military service goes a looooong way towards landing a gig there as well.

I think it is fairly difficult to land an internship.

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johnnyutah
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby johnnyutah » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:24 pm

Voyager wrote:Heh. There you go. I think you should focus much more on the firm itself. Here is what I did for all my interviews:

1) Think about the target company. How do they see themselves? How do they describe themselves?

2) Extrapolate the sort of traits they are screening for based on (1). Yes, most law firms will be looking for similar things.

3) Build 3-4 stories that demonstrate those traits. Each story should be about 5-6 minutes long max.

4) Rehearse those stories until you have them down cold

That's good advice, I think. Honestly, I haven't been able to score an interview anywhere yet (other than "informational interviews" over the phone), but I will definitely follow this process once I get one.

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:32 pm

Voyager wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you very much for making this thread. I'm a 2L, also at CLS, who struck out during OCI. I also had below median grades 1L year.

1) How did 3L OCI (I know the autoadmit people like to say LOLCI) go for your class this year? Did you do 3L OCI? Also, I graduated in 2010. I did not do 3L OCI as I (rightly) decided it would be a waste of my time. That said, you SHOULD try it. At the very least, it is good interview training.

2) I'm doing a clinic next semester and also working a job at a small law firm. Obviously, I won't (nor do I really want to) have a ton of time to devote to classwork. Do you think I should quit the job to focus on school (I only need like 6 credits or 2 classes) and get my grades up? I still don't know how I did this semester.

3) Did you suffer any malaise or depression as a result of having to search, and how did you get through that?

4) What kinds of jobs 2L summer will set me up best for the 3L job search? I'm really flexible in what practice area and type of work I want to do.


1) Carnage. Absolute carnage. 3L LOLCI was ridiculous. I don't know if it was better this past fall, but I doubt it.

2) I can't answer this one. Only you can. Are you able to handle the work and stay afloat in your classes? I think if you can keep the job, you should. Not for the money, but for the experience and contacts.

3) Yes. Of coure. I was a complete stress case. Feelings of hoelessness, etc.. I got through it the same way Marines dealt with being outnumber 10 to 1 by Chinese at Chosin: I attacked immediately with everything I had. You need to be focused on the SEARCH not on unemployment. To do that you need to be searching. Figure out options. Apply! Set up interview! Focus on interview prep. BUt yeah. those 6 months were awful.

4) I can't answer this without knowing what you want to do. Generally, I would say the best bet is to get a biglaw offer. Barring that? Do you want to be a prosecutor?


2) I guess the answer will depend on how well I did holding the job and doing more classwork this semester, but I won't know for awhile (as you probably know getting grades back quickly isn't high on the list of priorities here).

4) I'm already pretty screwed w/r/t biglaw. Honestly I really have no clue about the practice of law. I don't feel like I gained any knowledge of about the actual day to day activities of a lawyer or what it's like to be a prosecutor vs biglawyer vs public defender during my first year in law school. I was a RA first summer and actually was told by one DA that it made her doubt that I really wanted to practice (I just took the first paid job that came along).

How receptive were the professors (the ones who practiced or still practice) to just sitting down and explaining what they did as lawyers? I feel like I need that right now so I can go into interviews and feel comfortable that I am not spouting canned lines but that I really have some idea what my interviewer does for a living.

Voyager
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby Voyager » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:42 pm

Professors are very receptive to sitting down with students. At least, mine were. Approach them and ask. It would take a real dick to deny you.

Your comments in (4) are refreshingly honest for a poster on this site. Most people here claim they know all about being a lawyer. I think you are doing the right thing by pursing internships during the school year. As for what that ADA said... I suppose she is an aggressive hard charger who expects people who want to be ADAs to aggressively pursue work that will get them involved in cases... not research for professors. I fear you may find that attitude for many ADAs and probably many small firms. Again, I think your internship at the firm this semester is a good idea.

I think sitting down with some professors is a great idea. Pick their brains. THEN ask them to put you in touch with some of their practicing friends. Meet those people. Ask them about what they do. Get a feel for their work. From there, try to parlay something into a job.

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rowlf
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby rowlf » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:44 pm

Voyager wrote:Well ITE is brutal. That said, I doubt a firm will rescind a post clerkship offer... after all, you are bringing something to the table they can sell to clients. On the other hand, I have certainly heard of people losing offers while on their clerkship. Hopefully, with business picking up, law firms won't be doing that any more.

A consulting company places no value in your clerkship. However, because the screening process is so brutal, if you can get through it some firms will let you start with a hefty break between acceptance and start date. Worth looking in to. I don't know about clerkship deferrals at ADA positions or DOJ honors, but your career services office would.

No a federal clerkship should not cause you to risk losing your job. It will be a career booster for you and will open a bunch of doors. 2009 and 2010 were awful. 2011 is looking better. I wrote most of the above having personally survived the dark times. Things should be getting better.


Thanks!

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:07 pm

1) Did you apply for any career judicial clerk positions? (are they called staff clerks?) I've heard these usually go to lawyers who have been practicing a few years and they are hard to come by because there are not many spots open. Just curious to know what what thoughts/experiences on this area.

2) What would you think is the most valuable use of a 1L's summer? My goal has been to try and get a judicial internship for the first part of the summer and maybe try to be an RA for the second half (in Texas, so split summers). Thoughts?

Thanks for this thread. It's been extremely helpful.

Voyager
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby Voyager » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:44 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:1) Did you apply for any career judicial clerk positions? (are they called staff clerks?) I've heard these usually go to lawyers who have been practicing a few years and they are hard to come by because there are not many spots open. Just curious to know what what thoughts/experiences on this area.

2) What would you think is the most valuable use of a 1L's summer? My goal has been to try and get a judicial internship for the first part of the summer and maybe try to be an RA for the second half (in Texas, so split summers). Thoughts?

Thanks for this thread. It's been extremely helpful.


1) No. I don't know anything about htat.

2) RA is probably a poor use of the summer. USAO is great. Judicial internship might be good as well. DA internship too. How about DOJ's SLIP program?

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prezidentv8
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:32 pm

Broad question, so no need to specifically direct an answer at me:

2L here, no summer job yet. Got firm callbacks, thought I interviewed well, but apparently not. I have some pretty broad interests (corp, tax, real estate, venture cap, plaintiffs lit), but am pretty much out of good ideas for places to apply. Thus, I need to find a way to find places to apply to. Any good resources out there that a career office wouldn't have mentioned?

Voyager
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby Voyager » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:05 pm

Well what did you think of all of the resources/places to look that have been mentioned above?

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prezidentv8
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:23 pm

Voyager wrote:Well what did you think of all of the resources/places to look that have been mentioned above?


Odds are I missed something, because I don't read that carefully on internet forums, but:

*Profs - talked with a few about the no-job issue, no results, feeling like it's too late for this to help at this point.

*Personal Contacts - I don't have any. My degrees of separation, outside of the law school, to the nearest law-related-career person is like 3. Tried one earlier today, we'll see if it pans into anything.

*Alumni/Other Networking - I cannot figure out for the life of me how this ever works. Tried it a few times, can barely get an e-mail returned, much less establish a relationship.


Of course, I'm still hacking at two of those, but it seems like a pretty useless exercise. At this point, the plan is literally just to keep doing stuff to try and find work. I have no idea if the stuff I'm doing is effective in any way, and, like I said, have no idea where to apply. This is probably bad.

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johnnyutah
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby johnnyutah » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:28 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:*Alumni/Other Networking - I cannot figure out for the life of me how this ever works. Tried it a few times, can barely get an e-mail returned, much less establish a relationship.

This is what I'm trying to work now. I've got a pretty poor email/response ratio too. but I think the right thing is just to spend as much time as possible personalizing your emails and making sure you're just looking to network and not to find a job per se.

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prezidentv8
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:35 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:*Alumni/Other Networking - I cannot figure out for the life of me how this ever works. Tried it a few times, can barely get an e-mail returned, much less establish a relationship.

This is what I'm trying to work now. I've got a pretty poor email/response ratio too. but I think the right thing is just to spend as much time as possible personalizing your emails and making sure you're just looking to network and not to find a job per se.


Yeah I think the problem is that the timing of the whole thing comes off as really insincere. Frankly, I should have probably done it prior to law school for it to be of much use.

Voyager
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby Voyager » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:46 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:*Alumni/Other Networking - I cannot figure out for the life of me how this ever works. Tried it a few times, can barely get an e-mail returned, much less establish a relationship.

This is what I'm trying to work now. I've got a pretty poor email/response ratio too. but I think the right thing is just to spend as much time as possible personalizing your emails and making sure you're just looking to network and not to find a job per se.


Yeah I think the problem is that the timing of the whole thing comes off as really insincere. Frankly, I should have probably done it prior to law school for it to be of much use.



I suppose it depends on some luck and how you sell it. That said it is wirth the effort.

I guess I have listed all of the ideas I came up with in the thread when I was going through it. I'll think about the problem a bit and see if I can suggest any more ideas.

Patrick84
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Re: 3L Taking Questions on Finding a Job (

Postby Patrick84 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:05 am

Voyager wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm guessing you are doing consulting. Whats the recruiting like for consulting firms? What type of background do you need other than solid law school credentials (I assume these are inconsequential to some extent)


ok. yes. I am going to consulting.

VERY VERY difficult to get hired for anyone,let alone law students. The firm I went to hires 1% (ONE PERCENT) of everyone it invites to the first round interviews. Those odds are bad. Frankly, I thought the whole thing was a long shot right up until the third round when I finally had a 50-50 chance of an offer.

The interviews are 3-4 hours long. You do 3 rounds of them. Each interview involves multiple case studies (basically, analyzing a business and trying to solve a business problem... it also involves lots of math) and resume questions.

I prepped VERY hard for those interviews and could probably write another prep guide...

In a nutshell: (1) Buy Case In Point. Read it. Learn the lingo/concepts. Note that the book wants you to memorize 14 frameworks each of which has 20 or more factors to memorize. Recognize that this is impossible. So...

(2) Check out: http://www.caseinterview.com/ That site was a god send. Victor Chen is a Stanford Business Alum and a former McKinsey consultant. He teaches FOUR frameworks to memorize. You can do that. Do it.

(3) TONS of problems. TONS.


ALSO, you need to get very good at math. You will solving moderately tricky math work problems on the fly, in front of the interviewer under timed conditions. If the kids who did "Mathletes" in high school had their version of Top Gun, this would be it.

CREDENTIALS: (1) They are looking for people from the very top law schools. The y don't care very much about greades.
(2) While they don't require a specific background it is VERY helpful to have work experiences in which you had some responsibility. It makes your resume question answers MUCH stronger.

Ideally, you had actual management responsibility where you efffected changein an organization. That is huge since that is what consultants are doing: going int o strange places, analyzing how to improve them and then coming up with a solution.

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