Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby D. H2Oman » Thu May 06, 2010 4:23 pm

op-ti wrote:
Hopalong wrote:
Don't be scared unless that makes you study harder. Just work hard your first year. You'll be alright.



BUT, If everyone/majority of us work harder...then what? :?



Sabotage your classmates.

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General Tso
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby General Tso » Thu May 06, 2010 4:24 pm

miamiman wrote:
Matthies wrote:Jesus H Christ

So Mr. Ronisky, a 25-year-old student at Chicago's Northwestern University School of Law, spent the fall sending 50 resumes to law firms and government agencies, to no avail. Now, just days shy of graduation and with $150,000 of student loans, he plans to move back to his parents' home in San Diego and sell music and movies online.
"I wanted to use my education," he said. "But times change."


Way to be a go getter. Didn't get an summer offer, so you send out 50 WOW unsolicited resumes and when you get no response you give up, move back with your parents and sell music online. WTF. Hi I sent 50 resumes out, no jobs, ist all the economys fault guess that means I should give up now. But if they gave you 3k a week you would all the sudden become the go getter you could be but can't seem to be when you need to do something on your own? :roll:



please. can we stop perpetuating this myth that kids who are getting f*cked have done so on account of their own laziness? I have a close friend, a 2L at CLS, who has spammed maybe 200 law offices after getting no-offered at OCI. She has nothing. It's not like the 101st is that much more effective


I get what you are saying but I think you are missing Matthies point. It's not that he should have sent out 51 resumes, or 200 resumes, or even 500. He took a passive approach to his job search rather than being proactive. He should have done networking or some other method. Nobody is hiring unsolicited fools off the street these days. There are 2 (realistic) options for any non-OCI hiring: (1) networking, (2) applying for job listings through your school. (1) is vastly preferable to (2). (2) sucks because even if you land the interview, they are going to interview 8-12 other people! Your odds of success hover around 10% at best.

op-ti
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby op-ti » Thu May 06, 2010 4:24 pm

D. H2Oman wrote:
op-ti wrote:
Hopalong wrote:
Don't be scared unless that makes you study harder. Just work hard your first year. You'll be alright.



BUT, If everyone/majority of us work harder...then what? :?



Sabotage your classmates.



I like this option better :twisted:

miamiman
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby miamiman » Thu May 06, 2010 4:25 pm

I assure you she's not shoddily constructing depersonalized, generic resumes. This is just a sea of awful going through the legal services industry.

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romothesavior
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 06, 2010 4:26 pm

Although I'll scale back on the harsh tone, I will say that Miami Man is right. Matthies clearly criticized MM's friend's tactics for finding a job, and said that OCI is the worst way to find a job ITE. Matthies is right that mass mailing is probably not a very good way to find a job, but he is wrong about OCI (at least as far as Columbia goes). Matthies is a great poster who is usually spot on with what he says, but I do see why MM got all riled up.

Also, TLS seems to perpetuate this mentality that all the people out of work must be lazy, stupid, or anti-social. Matthies' first few posts definitely seemed to perpetuate this myth. Not everyone out of work is some weirdo incompetent loser, and I think Miami Man was right to bring up this point.
Last edited by romothesavior on Thu May 06, 2010 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby Mr. Matlock » Thu May 06, 2010 4:27 pm

miamiman wrote:Apparently Matlock and Matthies are the same person. Rather than edit my post for small stylistic changes, I'll keep it as is. Matthies still looks like a vindictive idiot any way you cut it.

No, we're not the same. You just can't seem to stop sucking your own dick. Swallow, don't spit. Cheers to you ass-twat.

Oh... and LOL at "stylistic changes" you were going to make to your post. Fucking brilliant I'm sure!!! :lol: Now, back to your dick, son.

Hopalong
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby Hopalong » Thu May 06, 2010 4:31 pm

op-ti wrote:
Hopalong wrote:
Don't be scared unless that makes you study harder. Just work hard your first year. You'll be alright.



BUT, If everyone/majority of us work harder...then what? :?


Nope. Don't underestimate the majority's ability to remain utterly clueless. Just because these forums and blogs are echo chambers for the bleakest news doesn't mean that a majority of law students are aware. Just look at the numbers of people still applying to law school after two years of pain for the legal job market.

Consider your knowledge an advantage. Use it to motivate yourself.

miamiman
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby miamiman » Thu May 06, 2010 4:33 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
miamiman wrote:Apparently Matlock and Matthies are the same person. Rather than edit my post for small stylistic changes, I'll keep it as is. Matthies still looks like a vindictive idiot any way you cut it.

No, we're not the same. You just can't seem to stop sucking your own dick. Swallow, don't spit. Cheers to you ass-twat.

Oh... and LOL at "stylistic changes" you were going to make to your post. Fucking brilliant I'm sure!!! :lol: Now, back to your dick, son.



brillaint, bro. not really sure how or why someone posts as anonymous but then outs himself but you clearly are one special f*ing snowflake.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby Mr. Matlock » Thu May 06, 2010 4:37 pm

miamiman wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:
miamiman wrote:Apparently Matlock and Matthies are the same person. Rather than edit my post for small stylistic changes, I'll keep it as is. Matthies still looks like a vindictive idiot any way you cut it.

No, we're not the same. You just can't seem to stop sucking your own dick. Swallow, don't spit. Cheers to you ass-twat.

Oh... and LOL at "stylistic changes" you were going to make to your post. Fucking brilliant I'm sure!!! :lol: Now, back to your dick, son.



brillaint, bro. not really sure how or why someone posts as anonymous but then outs himself but you clearly are one special f*ing snowflake.

Oh, I made a mistake and admitted it. But, some people are just so full of their own dick, they choose to only see things the way they want to see them.

Hugs!

lawschoollll
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby lawschoollll » Thu May 06, 2010 4:39 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
miamiman wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:
miamiman wrote:Apparently Matlock and Matthies are the same person. Rather than edit my post for small stylistic changes, I'll keep it as is. Matthies still looks like a vindictive idiot any way you cut it.

No, we're not the same. You just can't seem to stop sucking your own dick. Swallow, don't spit. Cheers to you ass-twat.

Oh... and LOL at "stylistic changes" you were going to make to your post. Fucking brilliant I'm sure!!! :lol: Now, back to your dick, son.



brillaint, bro. not really sure how or why someone posts as anonymous but then outs himself but you clearly are one special f*ing snowflake.

Oh, I made a mistake and admitted it. But, some people are just so full of their own dick, they choose to only see things the way they want to see them.

Hugs!

Full of their own dick? Is that like, a real insult?

d34d9823
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby d34d9823 » Thu May 06, 2010 4:41 pm

lawschoollll wrote:Full of their own dick? Is that like, a real insult?


It takes flexibility ;)

miamiman
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby miamiman » Thu May 06, 2010 4:45 pm

Matlock, bro, you're a joke.

Good luck hanging with the big boys in school.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby Mr. Matlock » Thu May 06, 2010 4:50 pm

miamiman wrote:Matlock, bro, you're a joke.

Good luck hanging with the big boys in school.

And you bro, are a first class asshole. I'm positive you'll get "BIG LAW" and make tons of money, but you'll always be a self-dick-sucking, worthless piece of fucking shit.

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romothesavior
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 06, 2010 4:52 pm

I feel the lock is coming soon...

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Matthies
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby Matthies » Thu May 06, 2010 4:53 pm

miamiman wrote:Apparently Matlock and Matthies are the same person. Rather than edit my post for small stylistic changes, I'll keep it as is. Matthies still looks like a vindictive idiot any way you cut it.


Kid I've forgotten more about how to find a legal job in the time it has taken me to write this post then you will likely ever know. I know citing anonymous posters on internet message boards seem like some sort of definitive proof of the candyland that is your future, but I suggest you stop basing your prospective on what the real legal world is like based upon the notions of 0L's. Get your ass out there and meet some real working lawyers, talk to them, read the ABA trade rags, read the NLAP publications. PM me when you get no-offered on your 2L summer and I'll talk you down for the ledge and explain to you how adults get legal jobs.

Also, try checking his out for starters http://www.nalp.org/uploads/PerspectivesonFallRec09.pdf

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Mr. Smith
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby Mr. Smith » Thu May 06, 2010 4:59 pm

miamiman wrote:Matlock, bro, you're a joke.

Good luck hanging with the big boys in school.


What the fuck is this little bitch's problem?

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ConMan345
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby ConMan345 » Thu May 06, 2010 5:02 pm

Jesus, straight men are so homoerotic sometimes.

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Matthies
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby Matthies » Thu May 06, 2010 5:08 pm

romothesavior wrote:Although I'll scale back on the harsh tone, I will say that Miami Man is right. Matthies clearly criticized MM's friend's tactics for finding a job, and said that OCI is the worst way to find a job ITE. Matthies is right that mass mailing is probably not a very good way to find a job, but he is wrong about OCI (at least as far as Columbia goes). Matthies is a great poster who is usually spot on with what he says, but I do see why MM got all riled up.

Also, TLS seems to perpetuate this mentality that all the people out of work must be lazy, stupid, or anti-social. Matthies' first few posts definitely seemed to perpetuate this myth. Not everyone out of work is some weirdo incompetent loser, and I think Miami Man was right to bring up this point.


Its NOT a myth, I wish it was. And these people are not weirdoes, they just don't know any better. You know how many CLEs, Inn meeting, bar associations meets I've sat in the new graduates, all unemployed, that really have no idea (and this comes from good schools to crap schools) what to do.

They are deer in headlights. There is nothing wrong with most of these folks other than a complete lack of understanding of how the legal profession really works. Many went to school out of state with the hope that they could get back to my state from OCI at their schools. 2007 likely had a good chance. In 2007 I would not be taking a kid to lunch tomorrow from Iowa who was top 10% in his class as a may graduate and move back here with no job.

The simple fact it schools dot teach graduates how to find jobs on their own, and many law students don't want to learn. They are not lazy or stupid, they just are lost. And there are a shit town of them wondering around.

I have no problem when some says to me "I don't know how to find a job, got any advice" I get really pissed off when someone says I don't have a job and it's my schools fault. I've seen enough recent grads from all over the country in my city to know its not limited to schools, or regions, or rank, its an epidemic of kids graduating law school w/o the skills they need to find a job unless the school hands them one. The myth is that is how most law students get jobs.

It's simply not, and you people who think I was referring to Columbia need to realize, again, maybe in your world most law students refers to the t14 but most lawyers don't come from those schools.

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romothesavior
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 06, 2010 5:10 pm

Matthies, I do realize you are sort of the "resident expert" on networking on TLS, and I know you have offered your advice in other places, but would you mind shedding some light on the subject once again? What should students be doing as 0Ls, 1Ls, 2Ls, and 3Ls to put themselves in a position for success?

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby SwollenMonkey » Thu May 06, 2010 5:11 pm

ConMan345 wrote:Jesus, straight men are so homoerotic sometimes.


I use Dove, tan, get manicures and pedicures, and am afraid of gaining a pound of fat cause I get emotional.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby SwollenMonkey » Thu May 06, 2010 5:11 pm

romothesavior wrote:Matthies, I do realize you are sort of the "resident expert" on networking on TLS, and I know you have offered your advice in other places, but would you mind shedding some light on the subject once again? What should students be doing as 0Ls, 1Ls, 2Ls, and 3Ls to put themselves in a position for success?



Less time on TLS for starters.

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General Tso
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby General Tso » Thu May 06, 2010 5:15 pm

romothesavior wrote:Matthies, I do realize you are sort of the "resident expert" on networking on TLS, and I know you have offered your advice in other places, but would you mind shedding some light on the subject once again? What should students be doing as 0Ls, 1Ls, 2Ls, and 3Ls to put themselves in a position for success?


I agree. It'd be great if Matthies wrote up his employment advice and someone stickied it in the Employment thread.

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webbylu87
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby webbylu87 » Thu May 06, 2010 5:17 pm

General Tso wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Matthies, I do realize you are sort of the "resident expert" on networking on TLS, and I know you have offered your advice in other places, but would you mind shedding some light on the subject once again? What should students be doing as 0Ls, 1Ls, 2Ls, and 3Ls to put themselves in a position for success?


I agree. It'd be great if Matthies wrote up his employment advice and someone stickied it in the Employment thread.


+1

I for one don't want to be without a job in 3 years and frankly am willing to listen to any and all advice which may help me achieve that goal.

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romothesavior
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby romothesavior » Thu May 06, 2010 5:17 pm

webbylu87 wrote:
General Tso wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Matthies, I do realize you are sort of the "resident expert" on networking on TLS, and I know you have offered your advice in other places, but would you mind shedding some light on the subject once again? What should students be doing as 0Ls, 1Ls, 2Ls, and 3Ls to put themselves in a position for success?


I agree. It'd be great if Matthies wrote up his employment advice and someone stickied it in the Employment thread.


+1

I for one don't want to be without a job in 3 years and frankly am willing to listen to any and all advice which may help me achieve that goal.


I just wanna eat that plate of General Tso's chicken.

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General Tso
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Re: Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com

Postby General Tso » Thu May 06, 2010 5:18 pm

romothesavior wrote:
I just wanna eat that plate of General Tso's chicken.


Well you cannot. It is mine.




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