Law Graduates Face a Tough Job Market - WSJ.com Forum

[texas man]

watch out...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 18446.html

[D. H2Oman]

first I've heard of this.

[miamiman]

first I've heard of this.

not surprised given you're going to be PT at GULC.

[MC Southstar]

first I've heard of this.

not surprised given you're going to be PT at GULC.

miami man, are you related to texas man?

[miamiman]

siblings, actually.

[98234872348]

first I've heard of this.

not surprised given you're going to be PT at GULC.

Waterman is going to pwn you.

And you mom.

hth.

[GordonBombay]

Thomas Reddy...what were you thinking?

[acdisagod]

Hmm, interestingly the take a year off and retake crowd who would usually be correct may have fucked some people over if it meant they didn't graduate before the recession hit. Would it have better to go to a T3 like Albany before the recession than a t1 like Brooklyn as a member of the class of 2011?

[Threepeat]

"Thomas Reddy, a second-year student at Brooklyn Law School, hasn't landed a summer internship yet after sending resumes to more than 50 law firms. He is taking on about $70,000 of debt each year of the three-year program to earn his degree, but said he may be fortunate to make $80,000 a year in a lawyer job after graduating. "That is less than what I was making before I went to law school," he said. "


^^^This guy must have really, really, really, really hated his job before law school.

[D. H2Oman]

Thomas Reddy...what were you thinking?

lol'd

Seriously making over 80k before law school and he's taking on 210K of debt for a JD from Brooklyn?!

[holydonkey]

The University of Texas School of Law, long regarded as among the nation's top 20, estimates the employment rate for 2010 graduates is down about 10% to 15% from last year.

That's interesting because the most recent employment stats for texas have employment at 98.1%. So this means when US News comes out in a year or two, we should except your employment rate to be 83%, right Texas?

[acdisagod]

The University of Texas School of Law, long regarded as among the nation's top 20, estimates the employment rate for 2010 graduates is down about 10% to 15% from last year.

That's interesting because the most recent employment stats for texas have employment at 98.1%. So this means when US News comes out in a year or two, we should except your employment rate to be 83%, right Texas?

No I think your mistaken. They are going to say that 98% is down from their normal employment rate of 113%.

[miamiman]

first I've heard of this.

not surprised given you're going to be PT at GULC.

Waterman is going to pwn you.

And you mom.

hth.

waterman and I are on congenial terms. granted I did derail his fledgling admissions consulting service before it even had the chance to get off the ground, but I think he recognizes my objections were fairly spot-on.

[yabbadabbado]

What the article fails to address is how the dearth of big firm jobs has created a domino effect where all other legal jobs (smaller law firm, federal/state government or non-profit legal jobs) are much more difficult to get. The fact that the economy is down has also made these jobs much less plentiful than ever before, and that is compounding the problem.

It isn't just the lack of high paying jobs at corporate law firms that law graduates are upset about, it's the lack of jobs available that offer a livable salary and health insurance. $80,000 per year doesn't sound too bad at all but those jobs are few and far between. The reality is that finding a stable job with a reputable employer that pays even $40,000-50,000 is very difficult right now, even if you are coming from a good school. Many employers, particularly smaller law firms, have no problem offering new grads very low pay with no health insurance due to the glut of unemployed law graduates on the market.

[texas man]

What the article fails to address is how the dearth of big firm jobs has created a domino effect where all other legal jobs (smaller law firm, federal/state government or non-profit legal jobs) are much more difficult to get. The fact that the economy is down has also made these jobs much less plentiful than ever before, and that is compounding the problem.

It isn't just the lack of high paying jobs at corporate law firms that law graduates are upset about, it's the lack of jobs available that offer a livable salary and health insurance. $80,000 per year doesn't sound too bad at all but those jobs are few and far between. The reality is that finding a stable job with a reputable employer that pays even $40,000-50,000 is very difficult right now, even if you are coming from a good school. Many employers, particularly smaller law firms, have no problem offering new grads very low pay with no health insurance due to the glut of unemployed law graduates on the market.

+1

[texas man]

What the article fails to address is how the dearth of big firm jobs has created a domino effect where all other legal jobs (smaller law firm, federal/state government or non-profit legal jobs) are much more difficult to get. The fact that the economy is down has also made these jobs much less plentiful than ever before, and that is compounding the problem.

It isn't just the lack of high paying jobs at corporate law firms that law graduates are upset about, it's the lack of jobs available that offer a livable salary and health insurance. $80,000 per year doesn't sound too bad at all but those jobs are few and far between. The reality is that finding a stable job with a reputable employer that pays even $40,000-50,000 is very difficult right now, even if you are coming from a good school. Many employers, particularly smaller law firms, have no problem offering new grads very low pay with no health insurance due to the glut of unemployed law graduates on the market.

+1

+2

[The Invisible Man]

The recession's hurting everyone, not just the legal market particularly.

If you're going to law school for a get-rich-quick scheme, you're sorely mistaken and will be disappointed.

If you're going to law school because you're genuinely interested in law or have career-specific goals that require a JD, then you should go anyways.

[texas man]

If you're going to law school for a get-rich-quick scheme, you're sorely mistaken and will be disappointed.

If you're going to law school because you're genuinely interested in law or have career-specific goals that require a JD, then you should go anyways.

And if you want to get a job when you graduate (in the legal field) it is a lot harder than it was 3 years ago. Now, the variable of debt at graduation is elevated in importance.

[Stringer Bell]

Thomas Reddy...what were you thinking?

lol'd

Seriously making over 80k before law school and he's taking on 210K of debt for a JD from Brooklyn?!

Seriously. That guy is nuts. I'm walking away from a job in that salary range to pay sticker at UVA and anytime someone I haven't seen in awhile asks me what I'm up to I always preface it with "Well, I must be completely out of my mind but I'm...."

[Matthies]

Jesus H Christ

So Mr. Ronisky, a 25-year-old student at Chicago's Northwestern University School of Law, spent the fall sending 50 resumes to law firms and government agencies, to no avail. Now, just days shy of graduation and with $150,000 of student loans, he plans to move back to his parents' home in San Diego and sell music and movies online.
"I wanted to use my education," he said. "But times change."

Way to be a go getter. Didn't get an summer offer, so you send out 50 WOW unsolicited resumes and when you get no response you give up, move back with your parents and sell music online. WTF. Hi I sent 50 resumes out, no jobs, ist all the economys fault guess that means I should give up now. But if they gave you 3k a week you would all the sudden become the go getter you could be but can't seem to be when you need to do something on your own?

[Anonymous User]

Absolutely. One thing is certain, tuition will continue to rise. And all this talk about $100K in debt in all these articles is optimistic. Many law school graduates are going to have significantly more than that when they come out. From most private or out of state schools, $150K-180K or more is the new norm.

And if you want to get a job when you graduate (in the legal field) it is a lot harder than it was 3 years ago. Now, the variable of debt at graduation is elevated in importance.

[The Invisible Man]

If you're going to law school for a get-rich-quick scheme, you're sorely mistaken and will be disappointed.

If you're going to law school because you're genuinely interested in law or have career-specific goals that require a JD, then you should go anyways.

And if you want to get a job when you graduate (in the legal field) it is a lot harder than it was 3 years ago. Now, the variable of debt at graduation is elevated in importance.

And I say to that, while debt is always an important factor, there is more to being a lawyer than what Hollywood's conventional depiction of lawyers are (intelligent, flashy car, huge salary, hot model girlfriend). Having a JD may not promise you a six-figure salary BUT it earns you the knowledge of the law, a vast amount of opportunities that are not limited to the legal field and respect from just about everybody. I also find it interesting that a legal career is one of the few careers where downward mobility is highly implausibly, meaning you can only go up, especially after a significant amount of time. So, while some may never have that 180K salary, in due time, if you keep working hard, you'll eventually be making enough to live comfortably. Or you may just luck out working for some other job that highly values people with JDs. And as far as debt goes, you'll pay it off.

[miamiman]

Jesus H Christ

So Mr. Ronisky, a 25-year-old student at Chicago's Northwestern University School of Law, spent the fall sending 50 resumes to law firms and government agencies, to no avail. Now, just days shy of graduation and with $150,000 of student loans, he plans to move back to his parents' home in San Diego and sell music and movies online.
"I wanted to use my education," he said. "But times change."

Way to be a go getter. Didn't get an summer offer, so you send out 50 WOW unsolicited resumes and when you get no response you give up, move back with your parents and sell music online. WTF. Hi I sent 50 resumes out, no jobs, ist all the economys fault guess that means I should give up now. But if they gave you 3k a week you would all the sudden become the go getter you could be but can't seem to be when you need to do something on your own?

please. can we stop perpetuating this myth that kids who are getting f*cked have done so on account of their own laziness? I have a close friend, a 2L at CLS, who has spammed maybe 200 law offices after getting no-offered at OCI. She has nothing. It's not like the 101st is that much more effective

[Aberzombie1892]

The recession's hurting everyone, not just the legal market particularly.

If you're going to law school for a get-rich-quick scheme, you're sorely mistaken and will be disappointed.

If you're going to law school because you're genuinely interested in law or have career-specific goals that require a JD, then you should go anyways.

This is credited.

Successful get rich schemes involve either:
1) winning the lottery
2) fraud/theft
3) an MBA or
4) an MD

If someone is from a relatively poor socioeconomic status and wants to change that, they should not go to law school. They should be focusing on one of the above options. If someone is truly interested in learning about the law, come to law school.

Of course, there are people that are like "I want jobz." Well, there are jobs. If you are going to law school because you believe that you will graduate making $100,000, you have a blurred perception of reality outside of the top 5 or 6 schools. Honestly, outside of the top 3. There are plenty of jobs out there. They just aren't all at NLJ250 firms making $80,000-$175,000.

Of course, there are people that are like "da loanz." Basically if someone has a 2.8 and a 156, there is an affordable law school out there that that person could attend comfortably (public school or private school + scholarship). Because people on this site probably have an average of a 3.5 and a 163, surely everyone here could go to law school tuition-free if they choose to. But they choose not to - which is fine, but then they whine non-stop about it.

No one knows exactly how much new lawyers make when they get it. I really don't know why this is. On this site in particular, people post that "bi-modal" distribution chart compiled by NALP that has a median salary at $72,000. But what people do not realize is that that chart only accounts for half of the graduates of that year. Judging by the relatively high portion of higher salaries and strong concentration of lower salaries, it would appear as though NALP actively attempted to get salary data from the highest paid graduates. I take this from the fact that roughly 10% of all graduates work at a big firm. Therefore, the $145,000-$170,000 would be about 15% total at most (adding 5% for jobs that would include Exxon's tax department and other in house opportunities). For those who don't know what I'm talking about in this paragraph, I'm basically saying that no one knows how much new graduates make [true NALP tried, but with only about 50% reporting - it's useless. It seems as though NALP pursued 1) big firm workers and 2) public interest individuals].

/factual rant.

That is all.

[webbylu87]

This article doesn't say anything we haven't heard already. That said, it still terrifies me all over again.