Practice areas that involve math?

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XxSpyKEx
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Practice areas that involve math?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:09 pm

Do they exist? I've been leaning towards bankrupcty, tax, or finance with some hope that there will be some kind of math there. Up to now I've been leaning more towards bankrupcty, but went through a good amount of the tax code this last semester in my clinic and surprisingly it was pretty interesting (which is surprising because I didn't think I would ever even consider tax until this clinic). Unfortunately, I couldn't take the general bankruptcy course here yet since it wasn't offered this entire year (I did take chapter 11 though), and will only be able to take either bankrupcty or tax courses next year (I already intend to take securities regulations for finance). What should I do? Will either area involve some type of math?

Also how does getting into tax work-- i.e. do you have to have an LLM to get serious consideration in that practice area at a firm or the IRS?

270910
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby 270910 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:16 pm

I know a little about tax:

First, plenty of lawyers I know doing tax have 0 math skills or interest. There might be some jobs or lawyers for whom math is a bigger deal, but not that I know of.

For going into tax, NYU and Gtown LLMs can matter... but I think hiring FROM those programs is scant (though not non-existent), mostly people already working in tax or with firms to go BACK to pick up the extra credential.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:34 pm

disco_barred wrote:I know a little about tax:

First, plenty of lawyers I know doing tax have 0 math skills.


Wow, that sucks. I guess tax might be getting crossed off my list of potential practice areas.

disco_barred wrote:For going into tax, NYU and Gtown LLMs can matter... but I think hiring FROM those programs is scant (though not non-existent), mostly people already working in tax or with firms to go BACK to pick up the extra credential.


So it is possible to go straight into tax at a firm or the IRS without the LLM credential?

Thanks for the info.

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chadwick218
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby chadwick218 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:49 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:Also how does getting into tax work-- i.e. do you have to have an LLM to get serious consideration in that practice area at a firm or the IRS?


You do not need an LLM and very individuals actually begin their careers with the IRS. Getting into tax is much like getting into any other practice area. Although many firms have tax practices, the majority are not actual stand alone practices as they exist to support transactional related work.

Getting into an elite tax practice is like anything else ... attend a top school and earn high marks ...

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chadwick218
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby chadwick218 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:51 pm

OP, do you have an undergraduate degee in math or any hard science? If so, you may consider looking into the patent bar and at a career in legal career focusing on IP / Technology.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:10 pm

chadwick218 wrote:OP, do you have an undergraduate degee in math or any hard science? If so, you may consider looking into the patent bar and at a career in legal career focusing on IP / Technology.


I've got an undergrad in business, so definitely math intensive, but not patent bar sufficient.

Does IRS do 3L honors? Would I be competitive without doing anything tax related 1L/2L summer (I don't think the firm I'm at this summer has much of a tax practice).


___________________________________________________________

What about bankrupcty or finance, do either of those involve math?... I've been leaning towards bankruptcy because you get your own court, there's that transactional + litigation component to it, and it fits my background really well (particularly ch.11 corporate restructuring). But I have no idea how tax works (I know there are US tax courts, but not much beyond that).

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nealric
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby nealric » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:30 am


Does IRS do 3L honors? Would I be competitive without doing anything tax related 1L/2L summer (I don't think the firm I'm at this summer has much of a tax practice).


Yes, IRS does 3L honors. The important thing getting good grades (esp in tax courses) and making sure you show a strong tax interest. DOJ Tax also does 3L honors.


But to answer the original question, tax for the most part is pretty math free. The most quantitative stuff if transfer pricing in tax, but the heavy lifting in transfer pricing is usually done by economists. In other areas, accountants usually do the heavy lifting.

It's very rare that you would have to do something more advanced than plugging in a very basic algebraic formula as a tax lawyer. That said, there is a lot of tax that relies heavily on logic game type stuff.

In the end, lawyers don't do much math. If you want math, don't go into law.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:22 pm

nealric wrote:In the end, lawyers don't do much math. If you want math, don't go into law.


Now you tell me. :lol: I actually got sick of math in UG just because there was so much of it. However, after a couple years of law school, I'm thinking something with at least some quantitative component to it would be really nice. Is there really no practice area in law that involves math?

Anyone got any insight about bankrupcty or finance (i.e. whether there is any quantitative aspect to either of those practice areas)?

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby Lawl Shcool » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:42 pm

My dad is a tax attorney with a background as an accountant. According to him most of his work involves analyzing and interpreting balance sheets and other accounting instruments. While he doesn't do the actual adding up of the numbers, without knowing how to do it there is no way he could do his job. So while he doesn't use math directly in practice, it is vital to his value as an attorney.

rohde88
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby rohde88 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:54 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:Is there really no practice area in law that involves math?


Run your own firm, then calculate ROI, balance sheet, Im sure theres lots of math

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:48 pm

JPU wrote:My dad is a tax attorney with a background as an accountant. According to him most of his work involves analyzing and interpreting balance sheets and other accounting instruments. While he doesn't do the actual adding up of the numbers, without knowing how to do it there is no way he could do his job. So while he doesn't use math directly in practice, it is vital to his value as an attorney.


This sounds like something that's in line with what I want to do. Thanks for the info.

rohde88 wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:Is there really no practice area in law that involves math?


Run your own firm, then calculate ROI, balance sheet, Im sure theres lots of math


Not really something that's possible right out of law school.

09042014
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:50 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
I've got an undergrad in business, so definitely math intensive,


LOL

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:11 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
I've got an undergrad in business, so definitely math intensive,


LOL


It's not engineering, but there is a definitely a lot of math involved in business. E.g. I recall one of semesters being: Calculus, Finite math, Statistics, Finance, and Operations management (while the last 2-3 classes aren't straight plugging in numbers through formulas it was still applying math to qualitative stuff, and probably 90% math in both of those classes).

Renzo
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby Renzo » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:20 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
I've got an undergrad in business, so definitely math intensive,


LOL


It's not engineering, but there is a definitely a lot of math involved in business. E.g. I recall one of semesters being: Calculus, Finite math, Statistics, Finance, and Operations management (while the last 2-3 classes aren't straight plugging in numbers through formulas it was still applying math to qualitative stuff, and probably 90% math in both of those classes).

Doing math frequently isn't exactly the same as doing "intense" math.

Hitachi
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Re: Practice areas that involve math?

Postby Hitachi » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:59 pm

Doing intense math is not the same as doing math-intensive work.




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