1L summer school looked down on?

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A'nold
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Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby A'nold » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:15 am

Here's a slightly different spin: I go to a ls where tons of the students have families and the dads (including me) support their families (right now through loans obviously). How can employers expect you to take some unpaid legal job over a paid non-legal one and punish you if you don't? It just seems illogical. I know MANY students in this situation that are just trying to get anything paying, even like working at McDonalds or something. An employer would be pretty stupid to look down on these students IMO.

reverendt
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Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby reverendt » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:24 am

A'nold wrote:Here's a slightly different spin: I go to a ls where tons of the students have families and the dads (including me) support their families (right now through loans obviously). How can employers expect you to take some unpaid legal job over a paid non-legal one and punish you if you don't? It just seems illogical. I know MANY students in this situation that are just trying to get anything paying, even like working at McDonalds or something. An employer would be pretty stupid to look down on these students IMO.

I would imagine they'd view someone taking a non-law job as lacking commitment to their education.
Simply put, your summer job/internship/research during law school is just as much a part of your legal education as your classes are....sure you don't need the summer experience to graduate, but you most likely need it to be attractive to employers....because everyone else will have it.

270910
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Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby 270910 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:38 am

reverendt wrote:
A'nold wrote:Here's a slightly different spin: I go to a ls where tons of the students have families and the dads (including me) support their families (right now through loans obviously). How can employers expect you to take some unpaid legal job over a paid non-legal one and punish you if you don't? It just seems illogical. I know MANY students in this situation that are just trying to get anything paying, even like working at McDonalds or something. An employer would be pretty stupid to look down on these students IMO.

I would imagine they'd view someone taking a non-law job as lacking commitment to their education.
Simply put, your summer job/internship/research during law school is just as much a part of your legal education as your classes are....sure you don't need the summer experience to graduate, but you most likely need it to be attractive to employers....because everyone else will have it.


+1.

A'nold, you seem to resist the notion that employers will actually look down on a lack of summer legal work... but it's been documented and demonstrated that they do. A big part of it is the skill set - if a big firm is going to take you, they want you to have some experience having your 'teeth cut' outside of the classroom. And the basic bottom line is that in this ferociously competitive market, it's a super easy way to make the cut - "hmmm, we can only call back 5 people, and there are 10 who meet our grade cut off and weren't total fuck ups. Well, A'nold spent the summer panhandling in the Caribbean, so he's out..."

I think it was BradeyToMoss who said he didn't do legal work and get a job anyway, but that it was a close call and lots of employers were turned off by it.

Also, not to be too on the nose, but aren't you at a T2? With 80%+ of the class at such a school pre-disqualified for a big firm job, there's probably not nearly the same herd mentality with respect to keeping that door open (by doing summer legal work of one kind or another). You're absolutely correct, I would imagine, that if you wind up in the position that 75%+ of law school graduates are (looking for a job after graduation instead of banking on an offer from your mega firm) not having legal work your 1L summer is probably much less of a concern with other work / accolades to make up for it.

reverendt
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Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby reverendt » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:42 am

disco_barred wrote:Also, not to be too on the nose, but aren't you at a T2? With 80%+ of the class at such a school pre-disqualified for a big firm job, there's probably not nearly the same herd mentality with respect to keeping that door open (by doing summer legal work of one kind or another). You're absolutely correct, I would imagine, that if you wind up in the position that 75%+ of law school graduates are (looking for a job after graduation instead of banking on an offer from your mega firm) not having legal work your 1L summer is probably much less of a concern with other work / accolades to make up for it.

I have to disagree with this part.
I'm at a T2, and not a biglaw candidate. I sure wouldn't want to be trying to get a job after graduation without some legal work on my resume.
I have some friend that aren't getting any good summer experience and I have a feeling it's gonna be rough on them....

270910
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Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby 270910 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:27 am

reverendt wrote:
disco_barred wrote:Also, not to be too on the nose, but aren't you at a T2? With 80%+ of the class at such a school pre-disqualified for a big firm job, there's probably not nearly the same herd mentality with respect to keeping that door open (by doing summer legal work of one kind or another). You're absolutely correct, I would imagine, that if you wind up in the position that 75%+ of law school graduates are (looking for a job after graduation instead of banking on an offer from your mega firm) not having legal work your 1L summer is probably much less of a concern with other work / accolades to make up for it.

I have to disagree with this part.
I'm at a T2, and not a biglaw candidate. I sure wouldn't want to be trying to get a job after graduation without some legal work on my resume.
I have some friend that aren't getting any good summer experience and I have a feeling it's gonna be rough on them....


You have a good point, but there's a slight difference: big law requires 1L summer work given how hiring works, but at least (even if it's not ideal) you can get something during 2L summer and/or during the school year when going for post-grad employment. The resume gap - while still existent - would be smaller.

Still, you're right that the more legal experience the better as a general and important rule.

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A'nold
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Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby A'nold » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:23 pm

I see your guys' point, I really do, it just seems like they would cut you some slack if you have to support a family during the summer.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby bilbobaggins » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:32 pm

A'nold wrote:I see your guys' point, I really do, it just seems like they would cut you some slack if you have to support a family during the summer.


It's not that they're not cutting you slack. They're simply selecting a better qualified candidate (one with legal experience). It's way less of a "we don't like people without legal jobs" and way more of a "we want someone with legal experience" mentality.

As for the OP, mass mail the small firms in your area. I got a paying criminal defense job because I went out and found a two attorney criminal defense firm that would hire me.

RW65
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Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby RW65 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:32 am

A'nold wrote:I see your guys' point, I really do, it just seems like they would cut you some slack if you have to support a family during the summer.


I know you're against getting something unpaid, but you will likely regret not having summer legal experience. Why not try working for a judge 3 days a week and getting a paying gig 3 days a week. You could easily do 3 days for a judge and work in a restaurant 3 days a week. It might not be a lot of money but at least it will help you get through the summer.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:51 pm

I understand the problems that op and others are having. I sent out resumes as early as Dec 1 and consistently sent out resumes to everything legal for the past 4 months. Then I made a phone call to a second cousin-in-law that I have never met and got an unpaid summer job in a decent sized firm. The old saying holds true, "its not what you know but who you know". I feel this is sad but unfortunately this is the way it is. My advice to others would be to mention in your emails that you will work for free for any amount of hours, and dont be afraid to contact shirt tail relatives. good luck to all, its a jungle out there.

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A'nold
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Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby A'nold » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I understand the problems that op and others are having. I sent out resumes as early as Dec 1 and consistently sent out resumes to everything legal for the past 4 months. Then I made a phone call to a second cousin-in-law that I have never met and got an unpaid summer job in a decent sized firm. The old saying holds true, "its not what you know but who you know". I feel this is sad but unfortunately this is the way it is. My advice to others would be to mention in your emails that you will work for free for any amount of hours, and dont be afraid to contact shirt tail relatives. good luck to all, its a jungle out there.


This is cool, but what if you are a first generation college student, even as far as distant relatives go? :(

270910
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Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby 270910 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:00 pm

A'nold wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I understand the problems that op and others are having. I sent out resumes as early as Dec 1 and consistently sent out resumes to everything legal for the past 4 months. Then I made a phone call to a second cousin-in-law that I have never met and got an unpaid summer job in a decent sized firm. The old saying holds true, "its not what you know but who you know". I feel this is sad but unfortunately this is the way it is. My advice to others would be to mention in your emails that you will work for free for any amount of hours, and dont be afraid to contact shirt tail relatives. good luck to all, its a jungle out there.


This is cool, but what if you are a first generation college student, even as far as distant relatives go? :(


Then surely by now you are used to the fact that life isn't fair?




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