1L summer school looked down on?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
griffy
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:53 pm

1L summer school looked down on?

Postby griffy » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:19 am

So I struck out and did not get any summer offers (although I'm still trying). I was told by my school that summer classes is my best option as at the very least it shows that I did something over the summer as opposed to hanging at the beach. In short, how screwed am I with future employers? If its worth anything, I did intern at a legal aid during undergrad, so I have some legal experience on my resume.

PoliticalJunkie
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:32 pm

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby PoliticalJunkie » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:24 am

no research opps with professors? At th very least you will get some exposure and maybe a huge reference/mentor for the future.

Posner
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 1:13 pm

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby Posner » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:08 pm

.
Last edited by Posner on Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
underdawg
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:15 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby underdawg » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:38 pm

it's not the lack of legal experience that will matter, so college legal experience won't really help. what will hurt you is that they will know you couldn't get a job 1L summer. if you find anything, they won't know it was your 100th choice or whatever.

"prestigious" 1L job > regular 1L job that you can make sound interesting >>>>>>>> any legal job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> summer school >> nothing

griffy
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:53 pm

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby griffy » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:14 pm

thank you for the responses. I will continue to plug away. Just wondering if it has always been this difficult to land 1L gigs? I even sent out apps on Dec 1 and have had nothing. Is this due to the economy (even though I'm more than willing to work for free)?

rando
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:57 pm

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby rando » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:18 pm

Underdawg is right. The economy is making it difficult, but I wouldn't think as much for 1L's as 2L's. Can't really tell if you are getting killed due to the economy b/c we don't know your stats, school etc.

I would keep shooting for an RA position. They just posted several at my school. Start knocking on doors. E-mail professors you had, professors that have interests similar to yours. You will find something, or they will have sympathy for you and send you to a friend.

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:22 pm

griffy wrote:thank you for the responses. I will continue to plug away. Just wondering if it has always been this difficult to land 1L gigs? I even sent out apps on Dec 1 and have had nothing. Is this due to the economy (even though I'm more than willing to work for free)?

Lots of good practical advice in this thread already, so I'll just comment on the question here. Hiring has been very bad ITE, even at top law schools. I'm at a T14 school and have heard a lot of people with decent grades and background get shut out all over the place. It's a trickle-down effect; law firms hired a lot fewer 2Ls, so 2Ls grabbed up a lot of the PI gigs that used to be filled up by 1Ls, and 1Ls are left competing against each other for what's left.

During public service interview week here, I noticed that half of the people signed up for interviews with almost every organization was a 2L. I asked around and apparently this is not common at all, usually it's almost all 1Ls interviewing and seeking these unpaid jobs. This is definitely worse than normal for 1Ls.

rando
Posts: 908
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:57 pm

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby rando » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:25 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
During public service interview week here, I noticed that half of the people signed up for interviews with almost every organization was a 2L. I asked around and apparently this is not common at all, usually it's almost all 1Ls interviewing and seeking these unpaid jobs. This is definitely worse than normal for 1Ls.


no kidding? dang. Did not realize that. Last year the 1L job search wasn't that bad. But your experience makes sense because from what I have seen the 2L hiring is a damn mess. People just scrambling.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273233
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:53 pm

underdawg wrote:it's not the lack of legal experience that will matter, so college legal experience won't really help. what will hurt you is that they will know you couldn't get a job 1L summer. if you find anything, they won't know it was your 100th choice or whatever.

"prestigious" 1L job > regular 1L job that you can make sound interesting
>>>>>>>> any legal job >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> summer school >> nothing


Would someone mind expounding on what types of 1L jobs typically fall into these categories?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273233
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:58 pm

iuno DOJ maybe?

as for the second one...it's kinda up to you dude. so...potentially 100%?

for "any legal job," i was meaning more like "you talk about your legal job and your interviewer falls asleep." heck, there are people boring enough to put that DOJ in that category

-underdawg

User avatar
OperaSoprano
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:54 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:16 pm

If you are considering summer classes anyway, see if your school has a combination study abroad/intern abroad program. Alternatively, go to your school's public service center and see if any new/last minute public interest opportunities have posted.

They might not be talking about it, but many of your classmates are probably still looking. Many of my friends opted to intern abroad for this precise reason, and I would have done the same had I not lucked out.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273233
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:18 pm

Check out different markets. I literally walked right into a legal services job because apparently no law students live on Cape Cod. The same position in Boston would've been impossible to get.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273233
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:21 pm

rando wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
During public service interview week here, I noticed that half of the people signed up for interviews with almost every organization was a 2L. I asked around and apparently this is not common at all, usually it's almost all 1Ls interviewing and seeking these unpaid jobs. This is definitely worse than normal for 1Ls.


no kidding? dang. Did not realize that. Last year the 1L job search wasn't that bad. But your experience makes sense because from what I have seen the 2L hiring is a damn mess. People just scrambling.


Ha, TITCR. Yeah, the amount of 2Ls scrambling is ridiculous. I was basically told by career services that any paying jobs would be out of my reach due to the number of 2Ls looking because given the choice between a 1L and 2L "everyone will take the 2L"

User avatar
OperaSoprano
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:54 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Check out different markets. I literally walked right into a legal services job because apparently no law students live on Cape Cod. The same position in Boston would've been impossible to get.


Interesting angle, and well noted. My internship is in NYC, and our CW is that jobs are far easier to get during the school year when everyone and their entire T14 class is not up here competing with us.

Quick question for those with an opinion: do you think employers care whether your legal experience is during the school year or during the summer? Assume part time over many months v. full time for ten weeks. I am doing some of both, but I wondered about this.

reverendt
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:56 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby reverendt » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:32 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Check out different markets. I literally walked right into a legal services job because apparently no law students live on Cape Cod. The same position in Boston would've been impossible to get.


Interesting angle, and well noted. My internship is in NYC, and our CW is that jobs are far easier to get during the school year when everyone and their entire T14 class is not up here competing with us.

Quick question for those with an opinion: do you think employers care whether your legal experience is during the school year or during the summer? Assume part time over many months v. full time for ten weeks. I am doing some of both, but I wondered about this.

I think experience during the school year is good, but all other things being equal I think summer experience is better. It's day in/day out, and probably more valuable than what you can learn working during the year.

User avatar
PDaddy
Posts: 2073
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby PDaddy » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:33 pm

I'm not going to lie, getting some type of practical experience is the top goal you should have during your summers, from everything I have read and heard. But how can anyone really "frown" on a person spending his time in the classroom studying law?

User avatar
truthypants
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:50 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby truthypants » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:36 pm

Does your school offer a legal clinic? I'd do that over the summer if you have nothing else. A lot of folks at my school struck out too, and that is what they are doing this summer (i.e., legal clinic).

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:17 pm

truthypants wrote:Does your school offer a legal clinic? I'd do that over the summer if you have nothing else. A lot of folks at my school struck out too, and that is what they are doing this summer (i.e., legal clinic).

This is an excellent point. I know there are at least a couple clinics at my law school that do offer internships, not for credit, but for work experience in the summer.

User avatar
sawwaverunner
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:28 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby sawwaverunner » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:29 pm

A few options could be:
1.) Call up a rural DA/PD office and see if they will let you intern
2.) Call up a judge at a rural county court and see if you can clerk for them
3.) Play the public interest legal card by getting any type of legal job benefiting the public and play up your commitment to public service.
4.) Use your contacts and go for the offices you don't find simply by googling "Legal Job/firm/ in ___________."

reverendt
Posts: 499
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:56 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby reverendt » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:22 pm

Quote from an interesting article
For illustration purposes, we can quantify how legal employers evaluate summer experiences, assigning a value to each of the three possibilities. For each summer in which an applicant took a break from the law and neither worked in the legal field nor did course work, employers award zero points. For each summer in which an applicant did course work, employers award one point. For each summer in which an applicant worked for a legal employer, whether for pay or as an unpaid intern or volunteer, employers award two points. Work as a professor’s research assistant usually is evaluated according to how much the research corresponds to the hiring organization’s practice areas.

http://www.abanet.org/lsd/studentlawyer/apr04/jobs.html

griffy
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:53 pm

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby griffy » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:12 pm

so I lined up an interview for Friday, but its non-legal. It still an office job in hospital administrations, however they require full time and summer classes are only offered during the day. So, any thoughts as to if I should just take the job if offered and be happy I'm working or load up on summer classes? thanks to everyone for their responses/help.

270910
Posts: 2437
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 9:51 pm

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby 270910 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:16 pm

griffy wrote:so I lined up an interview for Friday, but its non-legal. It still an office job in hospital administrations, however they require full time and summer classes are only offered during the day. So, any thoughts as to if I should just take the job if offered and be happy I'm working or load up on summer classes? thanks to everyone for their responses/help.


Buzzer. None of the above. Don't do either. Pull your head out of your ass, realize that if you want a legal job in the future you must find a legal job this summer or you'll be shit-canning your chances. Start applying to small (solo) practices (possibly offering to work for free), call local judges, contact lesser known PI groups, etc.

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:22 pm

disco_barred wrote:
griffy wrote:so I lined up an interview for Friday, but its non-legal. It still an office job in hospital administrations, however they require full time and summer classes are only offered during the day. So, any thoughts as to if I should just take the job if offered and be happy I'm working or load up on summer classes? thanks to everyone for their responses/help.

Buzzer. None of the above. Don't do either. Pull your head out of your ass, realize that if you want a legal job in the future you must find a legal job this summer or you'll be shit-canning your chances. Start applying to small (solo) practices (possibly offering to work for free), call local judges, contact lesser known PI groups, etc.

TITCR.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273233
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:32 am

Bookmarking for future reference. I guess 2010 is the year of realistic expectations and preparing for the worst. I don't expect next summer to be any better.

User avatar
underdawg
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:15 am

Re: 1L summer school looked down on?

Postby underdawg » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:01 am

PDaddy wrote:I'm not going to lie, getting some type of practical experience is the top goal you should have during your summers, from everything I have read and heard. But how can anyone really "frown" on a person spending his time in the classroom studying law?

because it means you didn't get a job. because "getting some type of practical experience is the top goal you should have during your summers."

and "frowning" is relative. if it helps you, think of summer school as a small smiley face, and a super awesome legal job as a huge smiley face. maybe legal employers might want to hire all the smiley faces (i guess frowneys would be those who spent their summer loafing or committing crimes? or are those dudes even smaller smiley faces?!), but there's only so many smileys/snowflakes they can hire.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.