75-100k salaries

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gandhi10
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby gandhi10 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:00 pm

once again
http://law.gsu.edu/admissions/viewbook09.pdf page 24

take a look, the averages are all broken down by sector and the site claimes over 94% reported. website claims these are stats for ALL graduates.

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General Tso
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby General Tso » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:18 am

gandhi10 wrote:once again
http://law.gsu.edu/admissions/viewbook09.pdf page 24

take a look, the averages are all broken down by sector and the site claimes over 94% reported. website claims these are stats for ALL graduates.


First, class of 2007 (in the viewbook) and 2008 (on GSU website) statistics are almost meaningless. The shit hit the fan in Sept 2008 with the collapse of Lehman Bros. Any statistics prior to this are of little significance today.

Second, I do not see where the 94% response rate is claimed on either the GSU Careers site or the pdf viewbook. If you could share this, it would be great. Keep in mind we are looking for the response rate to the SALARY question. Many people respond to the survey without listing their salary.

Third, you haven't disputed my earlier point about how easily averages are manipulated. GSU, like many T2 schools, has historically placed around 8% of its grads in biglaw. It doesn't take many $160,000 salaries to skew the average up to $89,000, especially when the salary reporting is skewed by self-selection to the highest earners in the first place.

I think GSU is a decent option, especially for those who can get instate. But they are lying about their salary statistics just like every other law school. If you go there, expect a more reasonable starting salary of $45-60k. If you do better than that, good for you. Just don't make the mistake of assuming you will be earning nearly 90k just because their careers office tells you so.

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General Tso
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby General Tso » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:21 am

gandhi10 wrote:once again
http://law.gsu.edu/admissions/viewbook09.pdf page 24

take a look, the averages are all broken down by sector and the site claimes over 94% reported. website claims these are stats for ALL graduates.


Dude when they say "ALL graduates" they mean that they are combining all of the CATEGORIES. How could they possibly list the salaries for ALL graduates when there are certain to be a handful who either fail the bar or can't find a job?

Besides, a 100% response rate to a salary survey would be unprecedented. You realize this is a voluntary thing right?

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zreinhar
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby zreinhar » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:59 am

swheat wrote:
gandhi10 wrote:once again
http://law.gsu.edu/admissions/viewbook09.pdf page 24

take a look, the averages are all broken down by sector and the site claimes over 94% reported. website claims these are stats for ALL graduates.


Dude when they say "ALL graduates" they mean that they are combining all of the CATEGORIES. How could they possibly list the salaries for ALL graduates when there are certain to be a handful who either fail the bar or can't find a job?

Besides, a 100% response rate to a salary survey would be unprecedented. You realize this is a voluntary thing right?


I just got back on to see all the responses to what I said, I originaly posted the avg thing in that, when there is outliers, albeit it something that is rare, would be a good thing for a caeer circumstance, also i was taking into account that very few (read:nobody) from GSU would graduate making 160k, unless that were in IP and had exp. Given this, that means the outliers for that school are smaller on the high side, which would in turn make them ssmaller on the low side. And I know ho averages works, but thanks for the additional explanation and example. :mrgreen:

ram jam
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby ram jam » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:18 am

Assuming that many, if not all law schools, inflate their salary data. Schools that report higher median/mean salary data must actually have higher salaries, or more high salaries. It is like a college class where the prof drops some of the lowest grades. But since the 2 or 3 lowest grades are dropped for everyone in the class, there are still people who will have a higher grade average.

gandhi10
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby gandhi10 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:25 pm

less then 5% (more like 2%) of the gsu graduating class makes it to biglaw. which means there will barely be any 160k outliers contributing towards the average

gandhi10
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby gandhi10 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:27 pm

and original post says ASSUMING THE ECONOMY STABALIZES... what kind of firms pay 75-100k salaries

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General Tso
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby General Tso » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:27 pm

gandhi10 wrote:less then 5% (more like 2%) of the gsu graduating class makes it to biglaw. which means there will barely be any 160k outliers contributing towards the average


Source? This 2005 chart begs to differ:
http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

270910
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby 270910 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:36 pm

swheat wrote:
gandhi10 wrote:less then 5% (more like 2%) of the gsu graduating class makes it to biglaw. which means there will barely be any 160k outliers contributing towards the average


Source? This 2005 chart begs to differ:
http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf


Did you even look at the chart you linked? It has GSU at like 8% prior to the big crash.

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General Tso
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby General Tso » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:02 pm

disco_barred wrote:
swheat wrote:
gandhi10 wrote:less then 5% (more like 2%) of the gsu graduating class makes it to biglaw. which means there will barely be any 160k outliers contributing towards the average


Source? This 2005 chart begs to differ:
http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf


Did you even look at the chart you linked? It has GSU at like 8% prior to the big crash.


Exactly. It doesn't really matter whether the biglaw crowd is 2% or 5% or 8%. The response rate for those people is going to be near 100%, whatever portion of the class it is. For the rest of the class, the response rate will probably be around 50%. Either way, the point is that it only takes a few 160k salaries to skew an average up to ~$80,000.

Look, here's the real issue: Nearly every T2 reports average salaries of around $80k, just like GSU. Somebody earlier was arguing that somehow GSU is more honest than the others, and that we can therefore conclude that GSU's placement is better than most T2s. The problem with that argument is that nobody has shown any reason why GSU's statistics are to be believed, whereas most T2s' are not. There isn't any evidence on the GSU website or viewbook to support this argument, and that is ALL I am trying to say here. That and that averages are even easier to skew than medians.

BetterCallSaul
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby BetterCallSaul » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:04 am

gandhi10 wrote:and original post says ASSUMING THE ECONOMY STABALIZES... what kind of firms pay 75-100k salaries


quality mid-size firms in mid to big cities will start salaries in the 75-100k range. Often in smaller cities or low COL regions the very best firms will start pay around 80k.

See for yourself: http://www.infirmation.com/shared/insider/payscale.tcl

In nyc, I know that the quality 20-50 person plaintiff firms start at 75-85k plus 1/3 of any $$ you generate. Insurance defense is about the same (maybe a little higher plus lockstep raises, but with little monetary benefit for bringing in business).

These firms tend not to spend a ton of time doing OCI because they only take on 1 or 2 new people a year--you kind of have to go after them, but the jobs exist.

wesleybs
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby wesleybs » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:55 pm

Here is a report on the 20 largest firms in South Carolina providing a number of their starting salaries. I didn't bother to look up the percentage of USC grads who end up staying in South Carolina, but I'm willing to guess the number is pretty high.
--LinkRemoved--

Seem that if 50% of the ~97% of grads reporting are working in firms (note only 50% work in firms), it is hard to think that of those 50% the average is in the 75-100k range (definitely not near 100k). I don't know what USC (South Carolina) advertises its average graduate starting salary hopefully someone will find this info helpful.

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Kohinoor
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby Kohinoor » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:01 pm

nealric wrote:
Also, these attorneys tend to work approximately 65 hours a week.


Ouch.

That's $23 an hour with 2 weeks vacation.

Insurance defense?
Ouch?

fwaam
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby fwaam » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:54 pm

wesleybs wrote:Here is a report on the 20 largest firms in South Carolina providing a number of their starting salaries. I didn't bother to look up the percentage of USC grads who end up staying in South Carolina, but I'm willing to guess the number is pretty high.
--LinkRemoved--

Seem that if 50% of the ~97% of grads reporting are working in firms (note only 50% work in firms), it is hard to think that of those 50% the average is in the 75-100k range (definitely not near 100k). I don't know what USC (South Carolina) advertises its average graduate starting salary hopefully someone will find this info helpful.


I believe they advertised about $50,000. I put that in the past tense because USC grads aren't getting jobs these days.

They're being more ethical about it than some of these schools at least--they've stopped reporting their % employed.

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rayiner
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby rayiner » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:59 pm

gandhi10 wrote:being optimistic, if the economy stabilizes.... the schools who report 75,000-100,000 (GSU, Houston, miami,South Carolina.. basically t40-t80) median starting salaries in the private sector? what kind of firms are those at.... guessing not big law,and how fast do those salaries rise??


LOL at $75k coming out of GSU.

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General Tso
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Re: 75-100k salaries

Postby General Tso » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:01 am

rayiner wrote:
gandhi10 wrote:being optimistic, if the economy stabilizes.... the schools who report 75,000-100,000 (GSU, Houston, miami,South Carolina.. basically t40-t80) median starting salaries in the private sector? what kind of firms are those at.... guessing not big law,and how fast do those salaries rise??


LOL at $75k coming out of GSU.


Dude...don't even waste your breath on these guys. They already drank the kool-aid and there is no reasoning with them.




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