Salary trends

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Action Jackson
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:46 am

Re: Salary trends

Postby Action Jackson » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:24 am

Lucidity wrote:Actually, it was always me that bought the jerky, while the pharmacist and everyone else complained about the smell. But certainly nothing stopped them from eating or drinking on the job if they wanted to. One of my current pharmacist goes through 4 liters of doctor pepper in an 8 hour shift. No one gives him crap for having a 2 liter next to his computer while he verifies prescriptions. No company interested in profit maximizing wants to piss of their golden goose over such trivial maters.

And i do apologize for the length. Good practice for final exams, i suppose :D

I'm super curious: are you in/going to law school? It sounds like a vastly more fulfilling/lucrative career than law, so, um, what are you doing on this website?

Lucidity
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:42 pm

Re: Salary trends

Postby Lucidity » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:15 pm

Good question. I am going to law school. I just sent in my initial deposit and will be attending law school this coming fall. As to your question about why law over pharmacy, the initial "plan" was to go to pharmacy school. My parents (Asian parents) pushed both my brother and I to do pharmacy as it was a steady and high paying career so we both decided to give it a shot. My bro stuck it out and graduated. 6 months before his graduation he was already fielding offers from drug/pharmaceutical companies. One day at work, he actually had a head hunter from a rival company call his pharmacy, pretended to be a sick patient that needed consultation from the pharmacist, and once my bro got on the phone, started selling his pitch to recruit him. This wasn't because my brother was some awksume super pharmacist extraordinaire, but because he was someone with a pharmacy degree and license to practice in the state in an industry with a severe shortage. For pharmacy, you don't have to be good, you just have to be in good standing to practice.

Pharmacy is a 4 year degree. After the first 2 years of academic study, where they cram your brain with the foundational sciences, you start your rotations. For his rotations, my brother had a choice of where he could do his rotations, and it just so happens that there was a site located about 30 minutes from home, so for the last 2 years of pharmacy school he moved back home. While he was home, i saw first hand what he was doing. I saw the work that he had to do, and the materials that he had to study and realized that although pharmacy was the more economically sound career path, it really was not what i wanted to do with the rest of my life. My brother and i both tended to excel in our classes, but did so in different areas. He was an introvert that genuinely enjoyed math and chemistry. I was more social and liked to write and argue. When i told my parents that i wanted to do law school, they were obviously disappointed, but they admitted to me that they had already thought of the possibilities of me going to law school, but never mentioned it because they would rather prefer i went into a field that guaranteed job security. I decided to stick with my pharmacy technician job because i work part time making 16$/hour with some of the most amazing co-workers anyone can ask for. The work is easy, the pay is good, and the people are amazing.

Imagine if this board was called Top-pharmacy-school instead of top-law-school, and it was populated by pharmacists/pharmacy students discussing other careers. Someone says something along the lines of : "my cousin bob graduated law school, is working at big law firm xyz and is making 160k/year at graduation, and law school is a 3 year degree! Pharmacists only make 110k/year at graduation and its a 4 year degree ! Law school is clearly superior !" This statement, although possible, is obviously extremely misleading, and i would expect that any of the more informed regulars from this board would chime in to correct such a deceptive statement. Can pharmacy be extremely boring and monotonous ? Absolutely, but the antisocial pharmacists who want to sit on their ass all day and reap their 6 figure paychecks tend to gravitate towards mail order pharmacies. At retail pharmacies, pharmacists are expected to be active in their patient's counseling and health outcomes. The job is only boring and ego destroying if you want it to be.

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nealric
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Re: Salary trends

Postby nealric » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:49 pm

I'm not sure what this obsession with pharmacy is all about, but a few thoughts on the matter:

Pharmacy has very little downside, but not nearly as much upside as law. No pharmacists are making $2M a year (if they are actually working as pharmacists). Certainly no pharmacists make private jet money like certain plaintiffs lawyers do.

Pharmacy requires a very different skill set from law, and will probably attract totally different people.

No matter how high-end the job is, or how knowledgeable I would need to be, something about reporting to work at Wallgreens or the local grocery store would be insanely depressing to me. Hospitals depress me too.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Salary trends

Postby XxSpyKEx » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:39 pm

nealric wrote:I'm not sure what this obsession with pharmacy is all about, but a few thoughts on the matter:

Pharmacy has very little downside, but not nearly as much upside as law. No pharmacists are making $2M a year (if they are actually working as pharmacists). Certainly no pharmacists make private jet money like certain plaintiffs lawyers do.


Typically the promotions in pharmacy look like this:

Pharmacist --> Pharmacy manager --> Pharmacy supervisor (in a district office) --> Exec in the corporate office (in charge of some aspect of the pharmacy).

The guy that was the pharmacy supervisor for the district that I worked in said he was promoted to manager in 3 weeks and then to pharmacy supervisor in 1.5 years, and not because he was that good, but because they really needed qualified people to fill those spots. Pharmacy supervisor's make bank. It's not quite $2M /year, but most partners at non V20 firms make that much either. Exec's at Walgreens make a LOT of money (after all, it is a fortune 50 company).

So getting promoted is definitely an option as a pharmacist. Sure you won't do the exact same thing a pharmacist sitting in the pharmacy will, but you won't do the same thing as a partner at Wachtell that a 2nd year associate does either. It's also a lot easier to move up the ladder in pharmacy because places like Walgreens is opening up so many new stores every year, which creates a lot of new higher level positions.

Another consideration is that there's a great possibility that you won't make it into biglaw at all out of law school, and getting in is competitive (even at top schools). Pharmacists are so much in need that it doesn't really matter what your grades are or anything like that. Simply being a licensed pharmacists will get a job. Just think about that- it's like graduating at the bottom of Cooley and getting an offer for a job that pays $100K+ /year and never having work a minute over 40 hours a week. It's a pretty sweet deal if you ask me.

Now if only biology wasn't so goddamn boring....

Lucidity
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:42 pm

Re: Salary trends

Postby Lucidity » Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:08 pm

Nealric is right though. The profession clearly sacrifices upwards mobility for the initial high pay and job security. My cousin who graduated in 96 makes about the same as what a fresh from college graduate would make. This was partly because she had a timid attitude and wasn't interested in extra responsibility, the steady pay and job security was enough for her. This attitude is par for the course for many that chose to enter pharmacy.

This illustrates another point. Lawyers, by in large, are usually a more driven and competitive group of people. Becoming a lawyer is a high risk venture, as represented by the extreme variance in salary pay. As lawyers, or aspiring lawyers, we should all learn and accept this fact. Competitiveness, risk, and uncertainty are all part of the job description. During economic booms, lawyers will do very very well, whereas during recessions we suffer much more than others. I think if most people were to understand and internalize this concept, there will be a whole lot less moaning on these boards.

bigben
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Salary trends

Postby bigben » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:33 pm

Lucidity wrote:Good question. I am going to law school. I just sent in my initial deposit and will be attending law school this coming fall. As to your question about why law over pharmacy, the initial "plan" was to go to pharmacy school. My parents (Asian parents) pushed both my brother and I to do pharmacy as it was a steady and high paying career so we both decided to give it a shot. My bro stuck it out and graduated. 6 months before his graduation he was already fielding offers from drug/pharmaceutical companies. One day at work, he actually had a head hunter from a rival company call his pharmacy, pretended to be a sick patient that needed consultation from the pharmacist, and once my bro got on the phone, started selling his pitch to recruit him. This wasn't because my brother was some awksume super pharmacist extraordinaire, but because he was someone with a pharmacy degree and license to practice in the state in an industry with a severe shortage. For pharmacy, you don't have to be good, you just have to be in good standing to practice.

Pharmacy is a 4 year degree. After the first 2 years of academic study, where they cram your brain with the foundational sciences, you start your rotations. For his rotations, my brother had a choice of where he could do his rotations, and it just so happens that there was a site located about 30 minutes from home, so for the last 2 years of pharmacy school he moved back home. While he was home, i saw first hand what he was doing. I saw the work that he had to do, and the materials that he had to study and realized that although pharmacy was the more economically sound career path, it really was not what i wanted to do with the rest of my life. My brother and i both tended to excel in our classes, but did so in different areas. He was an introvert that genuinely enjoyed math and chemistry. I was more social and liked to write and argue. When i told my parents that i wanted to do law school, they were obviously disappointed, but they admitted to me that they had already thought of the possibilities of me going to law school, but never mentioned it because they would rather prefer i went into a field that guaranteed job security. I decided to stick with my pharmacy technician job because i work part time making 16$/hour with some of the most amazing co-workers anyone can ask for. The work is easy, the pay is good, and the people are amazing.

Imagine if this board was called Top-pharmacy-school instead of top-law-school, and it was populated by pharmacists/pharmacy students discussing other careers. Someone says something along the lines of : "my cousin bob graduated law school, is working at big law firm xyz and is making 160k/year at graduation, and law school is a 3 year degree! Pharmacists only make 110k/year at graduation and its a 4 year degree ! Law school is clearly superior !" This statement, although possible, is obviously extremely misleading, and i would expect that any of the more informed regulars from this board would chime in to correct such a deceptive statement. Can pharmacy be extremely boring and monotonous ? Absolutely, but the antisocial pharmacists who want to sit on their ass all day and reap their 6 figure paychecks tend to gravitate towards mail order pharmacies. At retail pharmacies, pharmacists are expected to be active in their patient's counseling and health outcomes. The job is only boring and ego destroying if you want it to be.


too long again; would not consider reading if my life depended on it

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nealric
Posts: 2395
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: Salary trends

Postby nealric » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:52 pm

The guy that was the pharmacy supervisor for the district that I worked in said he was promoted to manager in 3 weeks and then to pharmacy supervisor in 1.5 years, and not because he was that good, but because they really needed qualified people to fill those spots. Pharmacy supervisor's make bank. It's not quite $2M /year, but most partners at non V20 firms make that much either. Exec's at Walgreens make a LOT of money (after all, it is a fortune 50 company).


Yes, but if you are a wallgreens exec you are no longer a pharmacist. A V20 partner is still a lawyer.


too long again; would not consider reading if my life depended on it



And you are in law school? I've come to regard anything under 10,000 words as a quick read after getting through law school.

Lucidity
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:42 pm

Re: Salary trends

Postby Lucidity » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:16 pm

bigben wrote:
Lucidity wrote:Good question. I am going to law school. I just sent in my initial deposit and will be attending law school this coming fall. As to your question about why law over pharmacy, the initial "plan" was to go to pharmacy school. My parents (Asian parents) pushed both my brother and I to do pharmacy as it was a steady and high paying career so we both decided to give it a shot. My bro stuck it out and graduated. 6 months before his graduation he was already fielding offers from drug/pharmaceutical companies. One day at work, he actually had a head hunter from a rival company call his pharmacy, pretended to be a sick patient that needed consultation from the pharmacist, and once my bro got on the phone, started selling his pitch to recruit him. This wasn't because my brother was some awksume super pharmacist extraordinaire, but because he was someone with a pharmacy degree and license to practice in the state in an industry with a severe shortage. For pharmacy, you don't have to be good, you just have to be in good standing to practice.

Pharmacy is a 4 year degree. After the first 2 years of academic study, where they cram your brain with the foundational sciences, you start your rotations. For his rotations, my brother had a choice of where he could do his rotations, and it just so happens that there was a site located about 30 minutes from home, so for the last 2 years of pharmacy school he moved back home. While he was home, i saw first hand what he was doing. I saw the work that he had to do, and the materials that he had to study and realized that although pharmacy was the more economically sound career path, it really was not what i wanted to do with the rest of my life. My brother and i both tended to excel in our classes, but did so in different areas. He was an introvert that genuinely enjoyed math and chemistry. I was more social and liked to write and argue. When i told my parents that i wanted to do law school, they were obviously disappointed, but they admitted to me that they had already thought of the possibilities of me going to law school, but never mentioned it because they would rather prefer i went into a field that guaranteed job security. I decided to stick with my pharmacy technician job because i work part time making 16$/hour with some of the most amazing co-workers anyone can ask for. The work is easy, the pay is good, and the people are amazing.

Imagine if this board was called Top-pharmacy-school instead of top-law-school, and it was populated by pharmacists/pharmacy students discussing other careers. Someone says something along the lines of : "my cousin bob graduated law school, is working at big law firm xyz and is making 160k/year at graduation, and law school is a 3 year degree! Pharmacists only make 110k/year at graduation and its a 4 year degree ! Law school is clearly superior !" This statement, although possible, is obviously extremely misleading, and i would expect that any of the more informed regulars from this board would chime in to correct such a deceptive statement. Can pharmacy be extremely boring and monotonous ? Absolutely, but the antisocial pharmacists who want to sit on their ass all day and reap their 6 figure paychecks tend to gravitate towards mail order pharmacies. At retail pharmacies, pharmacists are expected to be active in their patient's counseling and health outcomes. The job is only boring and ego destroying if you want it to be.


too long again; would not consider reading if my life depended on it


You have a point. I tend to be wordy in my responses, but this only stems from my desire to be thorough. But then the question is, if you'd rather not waste the 2 minutes it takes to read it, why waste your time by posting, just to tell me you won't read it?

bigben
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Salary trends

Postby bigben » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:26 pm

Lucidity wrote:You have a point. I tend to be wordy in my responses, but this only stems from my desire to be thorough. But then the question is, if you'd rather not waste the 2 minutes it takes to read it, why waste your time by posting, just to tell me you won't read it?


Just to be a smartass. :)

Lucidity
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:42 pm

Re: Salary trends

Postby Lucidity » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:28 pm

bigben wrote:
Lucidity wrote:You have a point. I tend to be wordy in my responses, but this only stems from my desire to be thorough. But then the question is, if you'd rather not waste the 2 minutes it takes to read it, why waste your time by posting, just to tell me you won't read it?


Just to be a smartass. :)


Lol, fair enough :)

Action Jackson
Posts: 328
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Re: Salary trends

Postby Action Jackson » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:59 am

Lucidity,

I have to ask: have you work in a law firm? Because law can be very boring and intellectual dull, so you need to REALLY want to do it. If you're just going off of "I like to argue" you might find yourself in a pretty bad situation down the road.

You sound like you think very positively about the pharmacy career, and it's something you have a lot of exposure too. It's important that you have similar exposure to law, otherwise you might just think the grass is greener in this other field (and it's really not).

Also, I'm sorry, but anybody talking about $2M/yr legal salaries is totally out to lunch. So few people get to that point that it's just not credible to use those cases in a conversation about the *career* as a whole.

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nealric
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Re: Salary trends

Postby nealric » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:36 am

Also, I'm sorry, but anybody talking about $2M/yr legal salaries is totally out to lunch. So few people get to that point that it's just not credible to use those cases in a conversation about the *career* as a whole.


Depending on where you go to school and where you start your career, it's not all that incredible. Never said it was common, but rather a part of the *potential* upside. Even if only .05% of attorneys become biglaw partners at top firms, 0% of pharmacists make $2M, unless they are no longer working as pharmacists (and lawyers have just as much of an opportunity to become executives).

Lucidity
Posts: 99
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Re: Salary trends

Postby Lucidity » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:16 pm

You're right, i have a lot less knowledge of law and the duties of the profession than i do pharmacy. I like pharmacy enough, but i know for a fact that i have certain academic strengths and interests that pharmacy does not fulfill. I won't argue with the possibility of law being boring or dull, but part of this discussion was focused on the fact that this possibility is true for many professions, including many of those considered more prestigious than law; medical, pharmacy, nursing, what have you.

Saying i like to argue is an accurate but crude description. I like to talk and engage in discussion. I like to write and dig in books and e-journals doing research for my classes. None of this guarantees that i will enjoy law, but up to a point i just have to accept that the information that i have is sufficient to believe that the likelihood of me enjoying the profession is the highest of all other professions available to me. I can say that every profession has the possibility to be dull and boring. I just have to hope that based on my skills and interests, this possibility is lowest with law.

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underdawg
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Re: Salary trends

Postby underdawg » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:27 pm

$5 says that when this guy's first final comes around, he's going to spend that entire time on the first question

for those who didn't read his long ass post, he is going to law school because he claims he's social and he "likes to argue." he also enjoys reading and writing. he found a way to use 10000 words to say that tho, which was pretty impressive

bigben
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Re: Salary trends

Postby bigben » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:57 pm

underdawg wrote:$5 says that when this guy's first final comes around, he's going to spend that entire time on the first question

for those who didn't read his long ass post, he is going to law school because he claims he's social and he "likes to argue." he also enjoys reading and writing. he found a way to use 10000 words to say that tho, which was pretty impressive


lol, ty

Lucidity
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Re: Salary trends

Postby Lucidity » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:29 pm

underdawg wrote:$5 says that when this guy's first final comes around, he's going to spend that entire time on the first question

for those who didn't read his long ass post, he is going to law school because he claims he's social and he "likes to argue." he also enjoys reading and writing. he found a way to use 10000 words to say that tho, which was pretty impressive


Wrong. The majority of the information in my posts was more an attempt to refute the claim that pharmacy was a mindless job suited for robots. I spoke about my personal experiences with pharmacy and why i decided i would rather pursue law.

And I'm sorry if my reasons for wanting to pursue law isn't enough for you and you deem them worthy of your ridicule. I'll try not to loose too much sleep tonight.

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Rock Chalk
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Re: Salary trends

Postby Rock Chalk » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:55 pm

.
Last edited by Rock Chalk on Wed May 16, 2012 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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underdawg
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Re: Salary trends

Postby underdawg » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:28 pm

Lucidity wrote:
underdawg wrote:$5 says that when this guy's first final comes around, he's going to spend that entire time on the first question

for those who didn't read his long ass post, he is going to law school because he claims he's social and he "likes to argue." he also enjoys reading and writing. he found a way to use 10000 words to say that tho, which was pretty impressive


Wrong. The majority of the information in my posts was more an attempt to refute the claim that pharmacy was a mindless job suited for robots. I spoke about my personal experiences with pharmacy and why i decided i would rather pursue law.

And I'm sorry if my reasons for wanting to pursue law isn't enough for you and you deem them worthy of your ridicule. I'll try not to loose too much sleep tonight.

i'm sorry you don't deem me worthy to interpret your war and peace-style tome

Lucidity
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:42 pm

Re: Salary trends

Postby Lucidity » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:06 pm

underdawg wrote:
Lucidity wrote:
underdawg wrote:$5 says that when this guy's first final comes around, he's going to spend that entire time on the first question

for those who didn't read his long ass post, he is going to law school because he claims he's social and he "likes to argue." he also enjoys reading and writing. he found a way to use 10000 words to say that tho, which was pretty impressive


Wrong. The majority of the information in my posts was more an attempt to refute the claim that pharmacy was a mindless job suited for robots. I spoke about my personal experiences with pharmacy and why i decided i would rather pursue law.

And I'm sorry if my reasons for wanting to pursue law isn't enough for you and you deem them worthy of your ridicule. I'll try not to loose too much sleep tonight.

i'm sorry you don't deem me worthy to interpret your war and peace-style tome


On the contrary, if the issue was your interpretation of the post's content, then this would be a much more interesting conversation. But as it stands, you're not really disputing the content of the post, but you'd rather be confrontational because ... of the length of my post. Can't you find a better reason to be a dick?

Action Jackson
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:46 am

Re: Salary trends

Postby Action Jackson » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:07 am

Lucidity wrote:You're right, i have a lot less knowledge of law and the duties of the profession than i do pharmacy. I like pharmacy enough, but i know for a fact that i have certain academic strengths and interests that pharmacy does not fulfill. I won't argue with the possibility of law being boring or dull, but part of this discussion was focused on the fact that this possibility is true for many professions, including many of those considered more prestigious than law; medical, pharmacy, nursing, what have you.

Saying i like to argue is an accurate but crude description. I like to talk and engage in discussion. I like to write and dig in books and e-journals doing research for my classes. None of this guarantees that i will enjoy law, but up to a point i just have to accept that the information that i have is sufficient to believe that the likelihood of me enjoying the profession is the highest of all other professions available to me. I can say that every profession has the possibility to be dull and boring. I just have to hope that based on my skills and interests, this possibility is lowest with law.

You seem to have missed my point: GO GET LEGAL WORK EXPERIENCE BEFORE YOU GO TO LAW SCHOOL. To not do that is very, very, very foolish. You have not done your homework, and you're making a rash decision hoping that it will all turn out well in the end because you're too lazy to make sure you're making the right choice.

You seem like a smart guy, so please don't make an incredibly stupid mistake and just guess that you'll like being a lawyer. Try it. See what LEGAL RESEARCH is actually all about (believe me, digging through dicta is unlike other kinds of research you may have done in the past). Be smart.




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