1L Judicial Externship

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Anonymous User
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1L Judicial Externship

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:49 pm

I have the opportunity to do an Externship for credit over the summer. This will allow me to take a summer course, in addition to the externship credit. I have a few problems with my situation though. I sent out mass applications with the local judges and I was contacted by several and I accepted a spot with a Judge in the US Bankruptcy Court. Two days later, I heard from the clerk of a State Court of Appeals Judge that they wanted me to extern as well. I don't know what to do.

Keep in mind that I have not taken Bankruptcy and I would be lost in terms of the subject matter in Bankruptcy. But I don't think I would be writing as much in the Court of Appeals as I would in the Bankruptcy Court?

So the question is: what would you do? I don't necessarily know I want to get into Bankruptcy law but it is definitely not out of the question. This CoA Judge is well known in the region and could be useful in terms of employment IMO.

I'm thinking about doing the CoA judge and then externing with the Bankruptcy Judge maybe Spring semester of 2L? That way I will better understand what is going on in that Court.

So which do you think looks "better?" Does it matter what level of Judge I extern for? Any here work for free with a Judge and not like the experience? Does a Federal Bankruptcy Judge look better than a State Ct of Appeals Judge?

Thanks in advance!

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Herb Watchfell
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Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby Herb Watchfell » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:50 pm

too long

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98234872348
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Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby 98234872348 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:53 pm

I don't know what to tell you besides the fact that as soon as you were accepted you should have withdrawn all of your other applications, at my school students can get in trouble for turning down a judge.

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Ipsa Dixit
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Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby Ipsa Dixit » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:21 pm

IMO, here is what you should do:

(1) You call the CoA judge's clerk, you say thank you for the opportunity, and you explain that you are not able to accept for the summer because you have accepted an offer with another judge's chambers. You can ask if it would be possible to extern during the school year instead of the summer.

(2) You call all other chambers you interviewed with and withdraw from consideration.

(3) You go work for the Bankruptcy judge whose offer you accepted.

It doesn't matter what type of judge looks "better" at this point because YOU will look bad if you don't go work for the judge you have already accepted an offer with.

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Herb Watchfell
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Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby Herb Watchfell » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:54 pm

Ignore this bullshit about propriety and integrity. Do what's best for you.

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Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:55 am

mistergoft wrote:I don't know what to tell you besides the fact that as soon as you were accepted you should have withdrawn all of your other applications, at my school students can get in trouble for turning down a judge.



"Get in trouble?" :shock: what does this mean? Do they make a phone call to your parents and tell them what a bad boy you've been?

I can understand the Judge's being upset but what is the school going to do? Yes, I know it looks bad but what do you mean "get in trouble?"

I'm going to tell the Bankruptcy Judge I would get a better experience after I have taken more courses and to let me do it during the year. Unless anyone has some pertinent advice I need to consider before tomorrow morning :wink:

Esc
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Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby Esc » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:
mistergoft wrote:I don't know what to tell you besides the fact that as soon as you were accepted you should have withdrawn all of your other applications, at my school students can get in trouble for turning down a judge.



"Get in trouble?" :shock: what does this mean? Do they make a phone call to your parents and tell them what a bad boy you've been?

I can understand the Judge's being upset but what is the school going to do? Yes, I know it looks bad but what do you mean "get in trouble?"

I'm going to tell the Bankruptcy Judge I would get a better experience after I have taken more courses and to let me do it during the year. Unless anyone has some pertinent advice I need to consider before tomorrow morning :wink:


Are you a flame?

It means that the Judge will complain about you to your school, which will be infuriated at you for dissing a judge and giving the school a black mark. Then the judge will spread the word among all his colleagues and acquaintances that you gave him the finger. Judges know a lot of people, and then are generally very well respected and important figures. Since reputation is everything in the legal field, this would be very, very bad for you. It isn't impossible that if the CoA judge you plan on working for hears of this, either through the grapevine...or perhaps personally from the Bankruptcy Judge...you could have that offer rescinded.

USAIRS
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Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby USAIRS » Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:02 am

Esc is right. It is a very small legal world, but especially with respect to judges. As a federal attorney, I can expect to be in front of each district court judge in my district and a good number of the BK judges at one point or another. Not only that, but they all talk to each other. Further, as someone who has hired interns, I can tell you that I'll remember someone who accepted an offer only to go back on it later, and not in a good way. Reputation is incredibly important.

FYI, the bankruptcy judge experience is generally much more valuable than probably all but the highest state-level. State-appellate court is pretty low on the totem pole in terms of entry-level experience. As far as specialized knowledge, nobody expects you to take a bunch of classes first, the judge hired you in fact knowing that you have no background. You really don't have a good excuse for breaking off. You'd actually be acting very much against your own interest in doing so.

Anonymous Loser
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Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby Anonymous Loser » Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:35 am

This year's 1L class seems far more willing than past classes to bail on an accepted offer, whether it's from a judge or some other employer. I certainly don't mean to single out the OP here: there must have been 50+ threads like this over the past few months.

If your class is widely no-offered after 2L summer, don't expect much sympathy.

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Herb Watchfell
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Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby Herb Watchfell » Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:58 am

USAIRS wrote:Esc is right. It is a very small legal world, but especially with respect to judges. As a federal attorney, I can expect to be in front of each district court judge in my district and a good number of the BK judges at one point or another. Not only that, but they all talk to each other. Further, as someone who has hired interns, I can tell you that I'll remember someone who accepted an offer only to go back on it later, and not in a good way. Reputation is incredibly important.

FYI, the bankruptcy judge experience is generally much more valuable than probably all but the highest state-level. State-appellate court is pretty low on the totem pole in terms of entry-level experience. As far as specialized knowledge, nobody expects you to take a bunch of classes first, the judge hired you in fact knowing that you have no background. You really don't have a good excuse for breaking off. You'd actually be acting very much against your own interest in doing so.


Bla bla bla. Stick an enema in it, Fatty.

Esc
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Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby Esc » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:04 am

Herb Watchfell wrote:
USAIRS wrote:Esc is right. It is a very small legal world, but especially with respect to judges. As a federal attorney, I can expect to be in front of each district court judge in my district and a good number of the BK judges at one point or another. Not only that, but they all talk to each other. Further, as someone who has hired interns, I can tell you that I'll remember someone who accepted an offer only to go back on it later, and not in a good way. Reputation is incredibly important.

FYI, the bankruptcy judge experience is generally much more valuable than probably all but the highest state-level. State-appellate court is pretty low on the totem pole in terms of entry-level experience. As far as specialized knowledge, nobody expects you to take a bunch of classes first, the judge hired you in fact knowing that you have no background. You really don't have a good excuse for breaking off. You'd actually be acting very much against your own interest in doing so.


Bla bla bla. Stick an enema in it, Fatty.


I should have looked at the initial time stamp on your post following the OP's post. Hi, OP. Nice flame, but you just gave it away...

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98234872348
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Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:57 am

Esc wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
mistergoft wrote:I don't know what to tell you besides the fact that as soon as you were accepted you should have withdrawn all of your other applications, at my school students can get in trouble for turning down a judge.



"Get in trouble?" :shock: what does this mean? Do they make a phone call to your parents and tell them what a bad boy you've been?

I can understand the Judge's being upset but what is the school going to do? Yes, I know it looks bad but what do you mean "get in trouble?"

I'm going to tell the Bankruptcy Judge I would get a better experience after I have taken more courses and to let me do it during the year. Unless anyone has some pertinent advice I need to consider before tomorrow morning :wink:


Are you a flame?

It means that the Judge will complain about you to your school, which will be infuriated at you for dissing a judge and giving the school a black mark. Then the judge will spread the word among all his colleagues and acquaintances that you gave him the finger. Judges know a lot of people, and then are generally very well respected and important figures. Since reputation is everything in the legal field, this would be very, very bad for you. It isn't impossible that if the CoA judge you plan on working for hears of this, either through the grapevine...or perhaps personally from the Bankruptcy Judge...you could have that offer rescinded.

+1. Both judges could rescind your offer and/or you could face disciplinary consequences, such as the possibility of being ousted from the externship program at your school and forbidden from participating in other employment opportunities at your school, perhaps including OCI, which also has stringent rules similar to those of the externship process. Your career services office will not like being stigmatized by the incompetence of their students in failing to follow even the most basic of instructions.

btw, I offered a sincere, helpful response and you respond with childish jeering and mockery of my language? Really?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 1L Judicial Externship

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:04 pm

"Get in trouble" =
1) letter to your school's career services
2) letter to the Bar
3) letter to your school's honor board
4) fallout and continual shit-show for you over the next, ohhh, four years of your life. Including things like exclusion from for-credit externship programs, loss of career counseling, revocation of the job offer you have now, black listing from the judicial clerkship cycles in 2012 and 2013, mandatory holds on credit for externships or other clinical activities.

I have seen all of this. Don't piss off judges.




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