Worst case scenario

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Anonymous User
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Worst case scenario

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:59 am

What would you recommend for a 1L unable to land a summer position?

Note: serious replies only please, no "work for the US census" or "drop out of law school."

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phoenix323
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby phoenix323 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:16 am

amyLAchemist wrote:Have you considered working as a research assistant for a professor at your school?


+1

Anonymous User
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:19 am

Serious reply. If everything fails, including the above mentioned research, you need to call your local 1-10 man shops and volunteer your legal services. Tell them the truth, that you are just looking to put something on your resume and would be willing to help however you can, including doing research using your Lexis and Westlaw accounts, and even getting coffee. Do not email them, call them directly. "Work" for a month or 2, then go travel and/or relax, knowing you at least have something on your resume. Good luck.

legends159
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby legends159 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:27 am

That is actually really good advice.

the Lexis/Westlaw thing itself would save the firm hundreds of dollars. A bit unethical but they charge so much for legal research that it's bound to happen.

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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:33 am

legends159 wrote:That is actually really good advice.

the Lexis/Westlaw thing itself would save the firm hundreds of dollars. A bit unethical but they charge so much for legal research that it's bound to happen.


You cannot use your school Lexis/Westlaw account at a job. I still think it is good advice though, to offer your services for free at a small firm if you really cannot find anything else.

Renzo
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby Renzo » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:
legends159 wrote:That is actually really good advice.

the Lexis/Westlaw thing itself would save the firm hundreds of dollars. A bit unethical but they charge so much for legal research that it's bound to happen.


You cannot use your school Lexis/Westlaw account at a job. I still think it is good advice though, to offer your services for free at a small firm if you really cannot find anything else.

You can use your school account on a job, you're not allowed to use your school account on a job. See the difference? That's why it's "a bit unethical."

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby OperaSoprano » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:38 am

Renzo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
legends159 wrote:That is actually really good advice.

the Lexis/Westlaw thing itself would save the firm hundreds of dollars. A bit unethical but they charge so much for legal research that it's bound to happen.


You cannot use your school Lexis/Westlaw account at a job. I still think it is good advice though, to offer your services for free at a small firm if you really cannot find anything else.

You can use your school account on a job, you're not allowed to use your school account on a job. See the difference? That's why it's "a bit unethical."


Can, meaning physically can, but are honor bound not to do so?

I second the RA recommendation, and the small firm advice minus the unethical Lexis/Westlaw part. I don't think it would be worth the potential C&F red flag.

I do wonder about this query in general, though. Internships abroad are very popular this year because our school sets them up, and it seems like there are not enough to go around in our home market. This is what I would have done, most likely. I was very surprised by what happened to me, and I wouldn't write your summer off yet.

rando
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby rando » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:41 am

phoenix323 wrote:
amyLAchemist wrote:Have you considered working as a research assistant for a professor at your school?


+1


Also a major bonus if you're thinking about clerking in the future. Forging a working relationship with a law prof. is huge for phone calls and LOR to judges.

reverendt
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby reverendt » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:42 am

I think many schools, like mine, work in conjunction with legal-services groups (free legal help for the poor, basically). I did that my 1L summer. It was only a few days a week, but it was great experience. I interviewed clients 1 on 1, negotiated domestic issues and drafted custody and divorce complaints.
If your school has something similar I'd check it out.

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Ipsa Dixit
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby Ipsa Dixit » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:49 am

Research assistant for a professor. Talk to the professors you know and like. Find out from other students and the school website about other professors. Visit them during their office hours and ask them, their scholarship, and the possibility of working as a research assistant.

You could also do summer school.

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A'nold
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby A'nold » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:19 pm

Ipsa Dixit wrote:Research assistant for a professor. Talk to the professors you know and like. Find out from other students and the school website about other professors. Visit them during their office hours and ask them, their scholarship, and the possibility of working as a research assistant.

You could also do summer school.


I thought this is looked down on?

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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:21 pm

Renzo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
legends159 wrote:That is actually really good advice.

the Lexis/Westlaw thing itself would save the firm hundreds of dollars. A bit unethical but they charge so much for legal research that it's bound to happen.


You cannot use your school Lexis/Westlaw account at a job. I still think it is good advice though, to offer your services for free at a small firm if you really cannot find anything else.

You can use your school account on a job, you're not allowed to use your school account on a job. See the difference? That's why it's "a bit unethical."


Oh, I saw the difference initially. I am just a chronic rule follower. ;)

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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:25 pm

I think westlaw and lexis turn your account off during the summer unless you tell them you're doing something school-related.
Anyway, I didn't know there was a taboo against using those accounts for work during the school year. How would they ever know what you're using it for anyway?

rando
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby rando » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:34 pm

A'nold wrote:
Ipsa Dixit wrote:Research assistant for a professor. Talk to the professors you know and like. Find out from other students and the school website about other professors. Visit them during their office hours and ask them, their scholarship, and the possibility of working as a research assistant.

You could also do summer school.


I thought this is looked down on?


I initially thought so too but from what I gather, most employers etc. understand that 1L summer employment is a hodgepodge of different types of work. It is also something that is usually very flexible for so people that have a different job lined up they can do research on the side for additional experience, relationships, and some money (usually $10ish/hr)

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A'nold
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby A'nold » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:10 pm

rando wrote:
A'nold wrote:
Ipsa Dixit wrote:Research assistant for a professor. Talk to the professors you know and like. Find out from other students and the school website about other professors. Visit them during their office hours and ask them, their scholarship, and the possibility of working as a research assistant.

You could also do summer school.


I thought this is looked down on?


I initially thought so too but from what I gather, most employers etc. understand that 1L summer employment is a hodgepodge of different types of work. It is also something that is usually very flexible for so people that have a different job lined up they can do research on the side for additional experience, relationships, and some money (usually $10ish/hr)


I was talking about the summer school thing. Is that bad?

rando
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby rando » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:16 pm

A'nold wrote:I was talking about the summer school thing. Is that bad?


Certainly not the best. I would imagine that employers see it as a bit of a copout. I don't know many people who go the summer school route and don't also have some legal employment on the side.

reverendt
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby reverendt » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:49 pm

A'nold wrote:I was talking about the summer school thing. Is that bad?


If you mean just taking classes....you probably want to try to do something more. Classes won't provide you with anything that you don't already get the rest of the year. A clinic through the school would be a different story. That would give you experience that you can't get in a classroom.

Basically you want something to put on your resume and talk about at interviews. Legal EXPERIENCE, not just education.

The exact kind of experience doesn't really matter. Do "something legal" that goes beyond just taking classes. ITE I don't think employers expect most people to acquire private sector (firm) experience their 1L summer. Half of my classmates aren't even gonna have that their 2L summer.

BetterCallSaul
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby BetterCallSaul » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Serious reply. If everything fails, including the above mentioned research, you need to call your local 1-10 man shops and volunteer your legal services. Tell them the truth, that you are just looking to put something on your resume and would be willing to help however you can, including doing research using your Lexis and Westlaw accounts, and even getting coffee. Do not email them, call them directly. "Work" for a month or 2, then go travel and/or relax, knowing you at least have something on your resume. Good luck.


The best part of this advice is to call rather than email. There's a good chance you will get shut out if you email. But if you call smaller shops you can actually get the lawyer you'd be volunteering for on the phone and someone will take you.

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verdandi
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby verdandi » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:27 pm

reverendt wrote:If you mean just taking classes....you probably want to try to do something more. Classes won't provide you with anything that you don't already get the rest of the year. A clinic through the school would be a different story. That would give you experience that you can't get in a classroom.


+1. My school's clinics offer summer internship/research assistant positions, which I actually think would have been an awesome experience if I still needed a job. Good luck.

Anonymous Loser
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby Anonymous Loser » Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I think westlaw and lexis turn your account off during the summer unless you tell them you're doing something school-related.
Anyway, I didn't know there was a taboo against using those accounts for work during the school year. How would they ever know what you're using it for anyway?


Have you not noticed that this:

FOR EDUCATIONAL USE ONLY

is emblazoned in all caps across the top of every document you retrieve?

Anonymous User
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:22 pm

Anonymous Loser wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think westlaw and lexis turn your account off during the summer unless you tell them you're doing something school-related.
Anyway, I didn't know there was a taboo against using those accounts for work during the school year. How would they ever know what you're using it for anyway?


Have you not noticed that this:

FOR EDUCATIONAL USE ONLY

is emblazoned in all caps across the top of every document you retrieve?

Well....who's to say that doesn't include EDUCATING my boss on a given topic???

Papa Bear
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby Papa Bear » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:38 am

BetterCallSaul wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Serious reply. If everything fails, including the above mentioned research, you need to call your local 1-10 man shops and volunteer your legal services. Tell them the truth, that you are just looking to put something on your resume and would be willing to help however you can, including doing research using your Lexis and Westlaw accounts, and even getting coffee. Do not email them, call them directly. "Work" for a month or 2, then go travel and/or relax, knowing you at least have something on your resume. Good luck.


The best part of this advice is to call rather than email. There's a good chance you will get shut out if you email. But if you call smaller shops you can actually get the lawyer you'd be volunteering for on the phone and someone will take you.


I'm curious if anybody has any experience with actually getting work this way. Without actually looking into it, it seems like this would violate FLSA and analogous state laws (besides the whole Lexis/Westlaw thing).

Renzo
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby Renzo » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:15 am

Papa Bear wrote:
BetterCallSaul wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Serious reply. If everything fails, including the above mentioned research, you need to call your local 1-10 man shops and volunteer your legal services. Tell them the truth, that you are just looking to put something on your resume and would be willing to help however you can, including doing research using your Lexis and Westlaw accounts, and even getting coffee. Do not email them, call them directly. "Work" for a month or 2, then go travel and/or relax, knowing you at least have something on your resume. Good luck.


The best part of this advice is to call rather than email. There's a good chance you will get shut out if you email. But if you call smaller shops you can actually get the lawyer you'd be volunteering for on the phone and someone will take you.


I'm curious if anybody has any experience with actually getting work this way. Without actually looking into it, it seems like this would violate FLSA and analogous state laws (besides the whole Lexis/Westlaw thing).

It's technically illegal to work for free at a for-profit business, unless the job is only for your education and you provide no value to the company. However, this gets violated all the freaking time, so if you don't bring it up chances are no one will.

Papa Bear
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby Papa Bear » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:27 pm

Renzo wrote:
Papa Bear wrote:I'm curious if anybody has any experience with actually getting work this way. Without actually looking into it, it seems like this would violate FLSA and analogous state laws (besides the whole Lexis/Westlaw thing).

It's technically illegal to work for free at a for-profit business, unless the job is only for your education and you provide no value to the company. However, this gets violated all the freaking time, so if you don't bring it up chances are no one will.


In the legal field? I don't know. I haven't heard much support for that.

It's a bad idea to call around asking if you can do legal work for people in a way that would itself violate the law. If what you say is correct and this situation would, in fact, violate FLSA (which I don't know), I wouldn't recommend anybody call around asking lawyers if they can do free work for them.

rando
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Re: Worst case scenario

Postby rando » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:33 pm

Papa Bear wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Papa Bear wrote:I'm curious if anybody has any experience with actually getting work this way. Without actually looking into it, it seems like this would violate FLSA and analogous state laws (besides the whole Lexis/Westlaw thing).

It's technically illegal to work for free at a for-profit business, unless the job is only for your education and you provide no value to the company. However, this gets violated all the freaking time, so if you don't bring it up chances are no one will.


In the legal field? I don't know. I haven't heard much support for that.

It's a bad idea to call around asking if you can do legal work for people in a way that would itself violate the law. If what you say is correct and this situation would, in fact, violate FLSA (which I don't know), I wouldn't recommend anybody call around asking lawyers if they can do free work for them.


no one expects a 1L to know the intricacies of FLSA. Let the employer determine whether they want your volunteer services or not.




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