Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

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gemma232
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Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby gemma232 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:05 pm

Just want to ask if anyone knows what percent of Georgetown LLMs (tax) go on to land biglaw. Is this a good option for those who don't land biglaw during the JD years? Thanks.

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crazycanuck
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby crazycanuck » Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:30 pm

Do you like tax and have some sort of CPA experience?

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A'nold
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby A'nold » Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:06 am

You know, the starting pay could be 200k plus bonus with a 95% placement rate and I could have a full-ride scholarship and you COULD NOT get me to do this. To each his own.

Renzo
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby Renzo » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:10 pm

A'nold wrote:You know, the starting pay could be 200k plus bonus with a 95% placement rate and I could have a full-ride scholarship and you COULD NOT get me to do this. To each his own.

It's funny, I'd have said the same thing a year ago. But now, I'm actually looking forward to taking tax-- I think it might be kind of fun.

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crazycanuck
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby crazycanuck » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:57 pm

Renzo wrote:
A'nold wrote:You know, the starting pay could be 200k plus bonus with a 95% placement rate and I could have a full-ride scholarship and you COULD NOT get me to do this. To each his own.

It's funny, I'd have said the same thing a year ago. But now, I'm actually looking forward to taking tax-- I think it might be kind of fun.


I haven't done any tax law obviously, but I really enjoyed my tax class for my accounting degree. Got 98% in the class because I found it so interesting.

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nealric
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby nealric » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:58 pm

Do you like tax and have some sort of CPA experience?


You don't need CPA experience of any sort. All you need is to have taken Tax I in law school.

But to answer the OP's question, if you didn't make it into biglaw with your JD credentials, chances are you will not with the LLM. On rare occasions, people who were on the cusp of getting biglaw and knocked the LLM out the park get biglaw out of the deal, but don't count on it.

I'm getting a joint JD/LLM in tax at Georgetown if you have any questions.

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truthypants
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby truthypants » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:15 pm

nealric wrote:
Do you like tax and have some sort of CPA experience?


You don't need CPA experience of any sort. All you need is to have taken Tax I in law school.

But to answer the OP's question, if you didn't make it into biglaw with your JD credentials, chances are you will not with the LLM. On rare occasions, people who were on the cusp of getting biglaw and knocked the LLM out the park get biglaw out of the deal, but don't count on it.

I'm getting a joint JD/LLM in tax at Georgetown if you have any questions.


Interesting--so the LLM alone from G'twon won't land you biglaw? I'm at the *other* George--Mason, that is (doing decently, but not enough for biglaw or to transfer into G'town outright-top 20%). Thinking of going the LLM route to keep my career options open should I decide to try for biglaw (and strike out at Mason). Not a good choice?

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nealric
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby nealric » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:11 pm

Interesting--so the LLM alone from G'twon won't land you biglaw? I'm at the *other* George--Mason, that is (doing decently, but not enough for biglaw or to transfer into G'town outright-top 20%). Thinking of going the LLM route to keep my career options open should I decide to try for biglaw (and strike out at Mason). Not a good choice?


Yeah, I would not count on it. Keep in mind that a lot of GULC LLM's are already working in biglaw, are deferred biglaw offerees, are are already working in the government, or are foreign students with no intention of ever working in the U.S.. The LLM career services does try to help the others, but it's the people who come in to the LLM program trying to improve their job prospects that tend to be disappointed. The fact of the matter is that large firms usually prefer hiring J.D.s and then having them do their LLM part time (or not at all) rather than hiring LLMs.

It wouldn't be a horrible gamble except for the extra debt. Another 60k in the hole is nothing to sneeze at for a degree that may get you nothing.

That said, the LLM program does offer some truly unique opportunities- like learning corporate tax from Martin Ginsburg (Ruth Bader's husband and one of the foremost experts in corporate tax). I've generally been extremely pleased with the program. However, I'm doing it as a deferred offeree, so I haven't had to worry about the jobs side.

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truthypants
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby truthypants » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:09 pm

nealric wrote:
Interesting--so the LLM alone from G'twon won't land you biglaw? I'm at the *other* George--Mason, that is (doing decently, but not enough for biglaw or to transfer into G'town outright-top 20%). Thinking of going the LLM route to keep my career options open should I decide to try for biglaw (and strike out at Mason). Not a good choice?


Yeah, I would not count on it. Keep in mind that a lot of GULC LLM's are already working in biglaw, are deferred biglaw offerees, are are already working in the government, or are foreign students with no intention of ever working in the U.S.. The LLM career services does try to help the others, but it's the people who come in to the LLM program trying to improve their job prospects that tend to be disappointed. The fact of the matter is that large firms usually prefer hiring J.D.s and then having them do their LLM part time (or not at all) rather than hiring LLMs.

It wouldn't be a horrible gamble except for the extra debt. Another 60k in the hole is nothing to sneeze at for a degree that may get you nothing.

That said, the LLM program does offer some truly unique opportunities- like learning corporate tax from Martin Ginsburg (Ruth Bader's husband and one of the foremost experts in corporate tax). I've generally been extremely pleased with the program. However, I'm doing it as a deferred offeree, so I haven't had to worry about the jobs side.


Thanks--do you know people that struck out (i.e., no job) after getting the LLM? What would you say worst case scenario is with the LLM?

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nealric
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby nealric » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:48 pm

Thanks--do you know people that struck out (i.e., no job) after getting the LLM? What would you say worst case scenario is with the LLM?


Since the LLM program is generally only one year, I mostly just know people who are graduating in May. I know plenty of LLMs who have nothing as of now- especially the ones coming from lesser ranked schools. OCI was almost non-existent this year. As far as I followed it, fewer than 20 employers came, and that was for a joint program between GULC and NYU's tax LLM (they usually combine their recruiting fair). Most people I talked to only got 1-2 interviews. Especially right now, biglaw firms just aren't hiring tax LLMs.

Worst case scenario is that you are unable to find any tax work and have greater difficulty finding non-tax work because of your LLM (non-tax employers would wonder why you have a tax llm). If I were in that situation I would open a solo practice doing small-time tax controversy and/or criminal tax defense- but that's just me.

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A'nold
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby A'nold » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:30 pm

I remember that before ITE people could count on biglaw from the NYU LLM program if they were in the top half of the class. I have no idea what the numbers are now.

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nealric
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby nealric » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:31 pm

I remember that before ITE people could count on biglaw from the NYU LLM program if they were in the top half of the class. I have no idea what the numbers are now.


Probably more like top 10% at the moment.

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A'nold
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby A'nold » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:46 pm

nealric wrote:
I remember that before ITE people could count on biglaw from the NYU LLM program if they were in the top half of the class. I have no idea what the numbers are now.


Probably more like top 10% at the moment.


Probably, though I do remember back in the day when it used to be THE THING to do if you missed the biglaw boat.

Renzo
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Re: Georgetown LLM to land biglaw?

Postby Renzo » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:52 pm

A'nold wrote:
nealric wrote:
I remember that before ITE people could count on biglaw from the NYU LLM program if they were in the top half of the class. I have no idea what the numbers are now.


Probably more like top 10% at the moment.


Probably, though I do remember back in the day when it used to be THE THING to do if you missed the biglaw boat.

Right now it's the thing to do if you're a deferred associate who's interested in tax.




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