USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

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A shiny penny for your thoughts?

USAO (US Attorney) edny
19
70%
District Judicial Internship edny
8
30%
 
Total votes: 27

Anonymous User
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USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:44 pm

Both are EDNY. I know this has been asked time and time again but there has never really been a concrete answer as to which one is more desirable? And yes, I have offers for both so I just need to answer within the week. My long term goal is probably biglaw in nyc.

Anonymous User
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:06 pm

Would it make a difference if it was civil or criminal division usao v. district judicial internship?

Anonymous User
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Would it make a difference if it was civil or criminal division usao v. district judicial internship?

Yes. And it might make a difference which judge the externship is for.

Anonymous User
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Would it make a difference if it was civil or criminal division usao v. district judicial internship?

Yes. And it might make a difference which judge the externship is for.


Okay let's say it's civil USAO and I don't think the judge is a particularly famous district judge or anything (at least as far as I know).

imchuckbass58
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:33 pm

So I voted for the USAO, but I want to qualify my vote.

It really depends what you're looking for. If you're headed towards litigation, I think that strengthens the case for the USAO - first, you will get more hands-on litigation experience (drafting motions, investigative research, etc). Second, you'll potentially make contacts with practicing litigators. It might not get you a job, but it can't hurt. On the other hand, I think if you're headed towards transactional work the case is much weaker for the USAO.

You should find out also exactly what you would be doing for your judge. One of the EDNY judges I interviewed with said interns predominantly handled immigration and social security cases which are (supposedly) horrendously boring and tedious. Basically, they did whatever the clerks didn't want to. Conversely, a few judges I interviewed with (and the one I'm working for) said that the work interns performed was substantially the same as clerks - writing bench memos, presenting to the judge, watching oral arguments, and writing opinions (subject to oversight, of course).

For me, that's what really did it. I'm less sure I want to go into litigation, and regardless of what I end up doing, getting to write actual opinions and bench memos seems like an unique experience (unless I end up being able to clerk). I talked to a couple of people who said that interning for a judge was the best summer job they had, even if it wasn't as directly applicable to actual practice (though it certainly is applicable - lots of research and writing).

I would not worry too much about the "prestige" of either experience. Both are legitimate enough that people will think you did something legitimate your first summer, and both will give you something to talk abou during OCI interviews. Think about what you'd rather be doing.

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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:39 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:So I voted for the USAO, but I want to qualify my vote.

It really depends what you're looking for. If you're headed towards litigation, I think that strengthens the case for the USAO - first, you will get more hands-on litigation experience (drafting motions, investigative research, etc). Second, you'll potentially make contacts with practicing litigators. It might not get you a job, but it can't hurt. On the other hand, I think if you're headed towards transactional work the case is much weaker for the USAO.

You should find out also exactly what you would be doing for your judge. One of the EDNY judges I interviewed with said interns predominantly handled immigration and social security cases which are (supposedly) horrendously boring and tedious. Basically, they did whatever the clerks didn't want to. Conversely, a few judges I interviewed with (and the one I'm working for) said that the work interns performed was substantially the same as clerks - writing bench memos, presenting to the judge, watching oral arguments, and writing opinions (subject to oversight, of course).

For me, that's what really did it. I'm less sure I want to go into litigation, and regardless of what I end up doing, getting to write actual opinions and bench memos seems like an unique experience (unless I end up being able to clerk). I talked to a couple of people who said that interning for a judge was the best summer job they had, even if it wasn't as directly applicable to actual practice (though it certainly is applicable - lots of research and writing).

I would not worry too much about the "prestige" of either experience. Both are legitimate enough that people will think you did something legitimate your first summer, and both will give you something to talk abou during OCI interviews. Think about what you'd rather be doing.


Thanks for your response. The people I talked to that have interned for a judge also tell me what a wonderful experience it was and I do not personally know anyone who has done USAO so I thought TLS would be a good place to get advice.

I would be happy doing either which is why it just just came down to plain prestige or what would look better on my resume. I figure, if both internships are equally appealing to me, it probably all comes down to which would be better for OCI (to be frank).

I don't know if I want to do litigation and I was hoping to figure out what I wanted to do once I get to a firm but litigation isn't particularly appealing to me because I'm a terrible public speaker... all I know is I want to do biglaw come 2L summer.

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ggocat
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby ggocat » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:42 pm

I've done both (not in EDNY), and I voted for the judge. I enjoyed the work I had with my judicial internships. The work was less deadline-oriented, and you can get fully involved in the researching and writing of orders/opinions. Depending on the judge, I think you will have a greater opportunity to develop a more polished writing sample with the judge. Plus, if you decide to apply for clerkships, it wont hurt to have the internship on your resume and (maybe) for the judge make or take a phone call on your behalf.

But what the other poster said about each judge being different is true. Be sure to double-check ahead of time what your responsibilities will be. If you don't want to do habeas work, and the judge says that's primarily what you'll be doing, then head to the USAO.

You probably can't go wrong. Both experiences will be good. Any way you can split the summer?

Renzo
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Renzo » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:47 pm

ggocat wrote:I've done both (not in EDNY), and I voted for the judge. I enjoyed the work I had with my judicial internships. The work was less deadline-oriented, and you can get fully involved in the researching and writing of orders/opinions. Depending on the judge, I think you will have a greater opportunity to develop a more polished writing sample with the judge. Plus, if you decide to apply for clerkships, it wont hurt to have the internship on your resume and (maybe) for the judge make or take a phone call on your behalf.

But what the other poster said about each judge being different is true. Be sure to double-check ahead of time what your responsibilities will be. If you don't want to do habeas work, and the judge says that's primarily what you'll be doing, then head to the USAO.

You probably can't go wrong. Both experiences will be good. Any way you can split the summer?

EDNY USAO won't split. They've got T10 kids lined up around the block to get in and work for free.

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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:47 pm

ggocat wrote:I've done both (not in EDNY), and I voted for the judge. I enjoyed the work I had with my judicial internships. The work was less deadline-oriented, and you can get fully involved in the researching and writing of orders/opinions. Depending on the judge, I think you will have a greater opportunity to develop a more polished writing sample with the judge. Plus, if you decide to apply for clerkships, it wont hurt to have the internship on your resume and (maybe) for the judge make or take a phone call on your behalf.

But what the other poster said about each judge being different is true. Be sure to double-check ahead of time what your responsibilities will be. If you don't want to do habeas work, and the judge says that's primarily what you'll be doing, then head to the USAO.

You probably can't go wrong. Both experiences will be good. Any way you can split the summer?


I think my judge is willing to split but the USAO EDNY website looks very strict:

"Interns are typically paired with one or two Assistant U.S. Attorneys and are required to work full-time for 10 weeks, beginning in late May or early June."

imchuckbass58
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:53 pm

EDNY categorically does not allow splits - I asked.

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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Both are EDNY. I know this has been asked time and time again but there has never really been a concrete answer as to which one is more desirable? And yes, I have offers for both so I just need to answer within the week. My long term goal is probably biglaw in nyc.


I thought the order in terms of 1L internship awesomeness is:

Firm job>>USAO SDNY/DC(civil)>USAO CDCA(civil)>USAO EDNY (civil)> USAO (criminal) >>Judicial Internship>> Other public interest jobs

Aren't judicial internships pretty common and USAO especially in NY, DC and CA especially difficult to get? Maybe I messed up the order on the districts but for argument's sake replace SDNY/DC/DCA/EDNY with whatever order you think it should be.

Almost all my friends are doing judicial internships and I only know one that got USAO in a major market. I'm at a T10.

Renzo
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Renzo » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Both are EDNY. I know this has been asked time and time again but there has never really been a concrete answer as to which one is more desirable? And yes, I have offers for both so I just need to answer within the week. My long term goal is probably biglaw in nyc.


I thought the order in terms of 1L internship awesomeness is:

Firm job>>USAO SDNY/DC(civil)>USAO CDCA(civil)>USAO EDNY (civil)> USAO (criminal) >>Judicial Internship>> Other public interest jobs

Aren't judicial internships pretty common and USAO especially in NY, DC and CA especially difficult to get? Maybe I messed up the order on the districts but for argument's sake replace SDNY/DC/DCA/EDNY with whatever order you think it should be.

Almost all my friends are doing judicial internships and I only know one that got USAO in a major market. I'm at a T10.

I disagree with your ranking, but in general, yes, the competitive USAOs are pretty close to the top of the heap for awesome 1L jobs. Judicial internships are pretty common.

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Anhimal
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Anhimal » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:22 pm

Renzo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Both are EDNY. I know this has been asked time and time again but there has never really been a concrete answer as to which one is more desirable? And yes, I have offers for both so I just need to answer within the week. My long term goal is probably biglaw in nyc.


I thought the order in terms of 1L internship awesomeness is:

Firm job>>USAO SDNY/DC(civil)>USAO CDCA(civil)>USAO EDNY (civil)> USAO (criminal) >>Judicial Internship>> Other public interest jobs

Aren't judicial internships pretty common and USAO especially in NY, DC and CA especially difficult to get? Maybe I messed up the order on the districts but for argument's sake replace SDNY/DC/DCA/EDNY with whatever order you think it should be.

Almost all my friends are doing judicial internships and I only know one that got USAO in a major market. I'm at a T10.

I disagree with your ranking, but in general, yes, the competitive USAOs are pretty close to the top of the heap for awesome 1L jobs. Judicial internships are pretty common.


I was in similar predicament.

So I'm not getting the poll results... how would this even be close if one is more competitive and the other is commonplace? Weird.

Renzo
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Renzo » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:29 pm

Anhimal wrote:
So I'm not getting the poll results... how would this even be close if one is more competitive and the other is commonplace? Weird.

I think it's because people outside of NYC or the north-atlantic seaboard don't understand the cult-like worship of the SDNY and EDNY USAOs. They think it's just like the local Billings, MT office.

the pecan sandies
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby the pecan sandies » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Both are EDNY. I know this has been asked time and time again but there has never really been a concrete answer as to which one is more desirable? And yes, I have offers for both so I just need to answer within the week. My long term goal is probably biglaw in nyc.


I thought the order in terms of 1L internship awesomeness is:

Firm job>>USAO SDNY/DC(civil)>USAO CDCA(civil)>USAO EDNY (civil)> USAO (criminal) >>Judicial Internship>> Other public interest jobs

Aren't judicial internships pretty common and USAO especially in NY, DC and CA especially difficult to get? Maybe I messed up the order on the districts but for argument's sake replace SDNY/DC/DCA/EDNY with whatever order you think it should be.

Almost all my friends are doing judicial internships and I only know one that got USAO in a major market. I'm at a T10.



This is very silly. The different USAOs handle different types of work. For example, EDNY does a lot of anti-terrorism and organized crime. SDNY is generally the "gold standard" for both D.Ct's and USAO's, but I wouldn't claim they are necessarily more prestigious.

I have done both internships, and I think both are great experiences. I found the experience with the judge more relaxing, but that would vary entirely depending upon the chambers. I was also given a lot of substantive work from the judge who I worked for, which improved the experience.

You have two great options -- think more about how you would rather spend your summer, and less about the prestige of either.

Anonymous User
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:47 pm

the pecan sandies wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Both are EDNY. I know this has been asked time and time again but there has never really been a concrete answer as to which one is more desirable? And yes, I have offers for both so I just need to answer within the week. My long term goal is probably biglaw in nyc.


I thought the order in terms of 1L internship awesomeness is:

Firm job>>USAO SDNY/DC(civil)>USAO CDCA(civil)>USAO EDNY (civil)> USAO (criminal) >>Judicial Internship>> Other public interest jobs

Aren't judicial internships pretty common and USAO especially in NY, DC and CA especially difficult to get? Maybe I messed up the order on the districts but for argument's sake replace SDNY/DC/DCA/EDNY with whatever order you think it should be.

Almost all my friends are doing judicial internships and I only know one that got USAO in a major market. I'm at a T10.



This is very silly. The different USAOs handle different types of work. For example, EDNY does a lot of anti-terrorism and organized crime. SDNY is generally the "gold standard" for both D.Ct's and USAO's, but I wouldn't claim they are necessarily more prestigious.

I have done both internships, and I think both are great experiences. I found the experience with the judge more relaxing, but that would vary entirely depending upon the chambers. I was also given a lot of substantive work from the judge who I worked for, which improved the experience.

You have two great options -- think more about how you would rather spend your summer, and less about the prestige of either.


Man... I regretted submitting that as soon I pressed submit because you're right, there's no point in trying to rank the USAOs I've mentioned. But surely all the ones I've mentioned are 1000x more competitive and interesting and prestigious than USAO in bumble-f.

the pecan sandies
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby the pecan sandies » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
the pecan sandies wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Both are EDNY. I know this has been asked time and time again but there has never really been a concrete answer as to which one is more desirable? And yes, I have offers for both so I just need to answer within the week. My long term goal is probably biglaw in nyc.


I thought the order in terms of 1L internship awesomeness is:

Firm job>>USAO SDNY/DC(civil)>USAO CDCA(civil)>USAO EDNY (civil)> USAO (criminal) >>Judicial Internship>> Other public interest jobs

Aren't judicial internships pretty common and USAO especially in NY, DC and CA especially difficult to get? Maybe I messed up the order on the districts but for argument's sake replace SDNY/DC/DCA/EDNY with whatever order you think it should be.

Almost all my friends are doing judicial internships and I only know one that got USAO in a major market. I'm at a T10.



This is very silly. The different USAOs handle different types of work. For example, EDNY does a lot of anti-terrorism and organized crime. SDNY is generally the "gold standard" for both D.Ct's and USAO's, but I wouldn't claim they are necessarily more prestigious.

I have done both internships, and I think both are great experiences. I found the experience with the judge more relaxing, but that would vary entirely depending upon the chambers. I was also given a lot of substantive work from the judge who I worked for, which improved the experience.

You have two great options -- think more about how you would rather spend your summer, and less about the prestige of either.


Man... I regretted submitting that as soon I pressed submit because you're right, there's no point in trying to rank the USAOs I've mentioned. But surely all the ones I've mentioned are 1000x more competitive and interesting and prestigious than USAO in bumble-f.



Yeah, you're right. I'd take CDCA or NDIll over D.S.D. any day. However, if I wanted to to indian law, it would be a different story. When it comes down to it all USAO's are pretty tough to break into, although some more than others.

Anonymous User
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:32 am

the pecan sandies wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Both are EDNY. I know this has been asked time and time again but there has never really been a concrete answer as to which one is more desirable? And yes, I have offers for both so I just need to answer within the week. My long term goal is probably biglaw in nyc.


I thought the order in terms of 1L internship awesomeness is:

Firm job>>USAO SDNY/DC(civil)>USAO CDCA(civil)>USAO EDNY (civil)> USAO (criminal) >>Judicial Internship>> Other public interest jobs

Aren't judicial internships pretty common and USAO especially in NY, DC and CA especially difficult to get? Maybe I messed up the order on the districts but for argument's sake replace SDNY/DC/DCA/EDNY with whatever order you think it should be.

Almost all my friends are doing judicial internships and I only know one that got USAO in a major market. I'm at a T10.



This is very silly. The different USAOs handle different types of work. For example, EDNY does a lot of anti-terrorism and organized crime. SDNY is generally the "gold standard" for both D.Ct's and USAO's, but I wouldn't claim they are necessarily more prestigious.

I have done both internships, and I think both are great experiences. I found the experience with the judge more relaxing, but that would vary entirely depending upon the chambers. I was also given a lot of substantive work from the judge who I worked for, which improved the experience.

You have two great options -- think more about how you would rather spend your summer, and less about the prestige of either.


Just to piss everyone off I'm going to take a shot at ranking the ones listed.

SDNY>EDNY>DC>>CDCA

Renzo
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Re: USAO (US Attorney) or District Judicial Internship?

Postby Renzo » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Just to piss everyone off I'm going to take a shot at ranking the ones listed.

SDNY>EDNY>DC>>CDCA

This post is a microcosm of TLS: ridiculous ordered lists of things, attempts at pissing other people off, and senselessly anonymous posts.




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