Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

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los blancos
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby los blancos » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:29 pm

hypothetical question:

if i don't get into any school i REALLY want to go to (i.e., CCNB) and i have the opportunity to pursue a job with the state department (which could turn into a career on its own and keep me from ever going to law school), should i just do the latter and take a wait-and-see approach to the whole thing?

legends159
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby legends159 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:32 pm

los blancos wrote:hypothetical question:

if i don't get into any school i REALLY want to go to (i.e., CCNB) and i have the opportunity to pursue a job with the state department (which could turn into a career on its own and keep me from ever going to law school), should i just do the latter and take a wait-and-see approach to the whole thing?


Law school can always wait unless all you want to do is a be a lawyer.

09042014
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby 09042014 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:33 pm

legends159 wrote:
los blancos wrote:hypothetical question:

if i don't get into any school i REALLY want to go to (i.e., CCNB) and i have the opportunity to pursue a job with the state department (which could turn into a career on its own and keep me from ever going to law school), should i just do the latter and take a wait-and-see approach to the whole thing?


Law school can always wait unless all you want to do is a be a lawyer.


Exactly. It won't go anywhere.

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los blancos
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby los blancos » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:35 pm

legends159 wrote:
los blancos wrote:hypothetical question:

if i don't get into any school i REALLY want to go to (i.e., CCNB) and i have the opportunity to pursue a job with the state department (which could turn into a career on its own and keep me from ever going to law school), should i just do the latter and take a wait-and-see approach to the whole thing?


Law school can always wait unless all you want to do is a be a lawyer.


I definitely want to be a lawyer, but the reason I want to be a lawyer is to make a nice living before hopefully going into government. This sort of gives me a shortcut. I don't know, I'll just have to see how my cycle plays out.

09042014
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby 09042014 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:41 pm

los blancos wrote:
legends159 wrote:
los blancos wrote:hypothetical question:

if i don't get into any school i REALLY want to go to (i.e., CCNB) and i have the opportunity to pursue a job with the state department (which could turn into a career on its own and keep me from ever going to law school), should i just do the latter and take a wait-and-see approach to the whole thing?


Law school can always wait unless all you want to do is a be a lawyer.


I definitely want to be a lawyer, but the reason I want to be a lawyer is to make a nice living before hopefully going into government. This sort of gives me a shortcut. I don't know, I'll just have to see how my cycle plays out.


Better off letting IBR pay off those loans then working your ass off to pay them off then going to government.

jk11287
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby jk11287 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:53 pm

los blancos wrote: You do realize that people below median at top schools are usually there simply because there has to be a curve? It's not like these people are idiots or didn't do their work.


I didn't mean to imply that people below the median were stupid; only that law school is a very rare place in that people dont seem to accept that higher grades naturally lead to more job opportunities.

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englawyer
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby englawyer » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:56 pm

los blancos wrote:
legends159 wrote:
los blancos wrote:hypothetical question:

if i don't get into any school i REALLY want to go to (i.e., CCNB) and i have the opportunity to pursue a job with the state department (which could turn into a career on its own and keep me from ever going to law school), should i just do the latter and take a wait-and-see approach to the whole thing?


Law school can always wait unless all you want to do is a be a lawyer.


I definitely want to be a lawyer, but the reason I want to be a lawyer is to make a nice living before hopefully going into government. This sort of gives me a shortcut. I don't know, I'll just have to see how my cycle plays out.


you should take the other job, try it out for a year or two, and see where you stand in my opinion. no harm in going to law school at age 24 instead of 22.

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nealric
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby nealric » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:03 pm

I didn't mean to imply that people below the median were stupid; only that law school is a very rare place in that people dont seem to accept that higher grades naturally lead to more job opportunities.


Really? I've never seen more grade obsession from people other than law students.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:05 pm

Disclaimer: I did not read the thread, and my point has probabaly been made already

Aeroplane wrote:Interesting - I thought this year was supposed to have been the upswing, but I guess not.



lolwut?

Everyone and their uncle knew that the C/O 2011 was going to get murdered at OCI this year. Mayer Brown-Chicago hired 11 people, for christ's sake. They normally take well over 50

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englawyer
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby englawyer » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:22 pm

nealric wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that people below the median were stupid; only that law school is a very rare place in that people dont seem to accept that higher grades naturally lead to more job opportunities.


Really? I've never seen more grade obsession from people other than law students.


+1. in pretty much every other field aside from medicine, grades above 3.0 don't really get you all that much. there are plenty of 3.9/4.0 folks out there that lost out on jobs to more social/personable/sales-y people with lower grades.

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Aeroplane
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby Aeroplane » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:28 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Disclaimer: I did not read the thread, and my point has probabaly been made already

Aeroplane wrote:Interesting - I thought this year was supposed to have been the upswing, but I guess not.



lolwut?

Everyone and their uncle knew that the C/O 2011 was going to get murdered at OCI this year. Mayer Brown-Chicago hired 11 people, for christ's sake. They normally take well over 50

Eh, ok. I was only speaking for myself, not everyone and their uncle. I was under the impression that this year would not be as bad as last. It's mostly irrelevant for me personally, so I have the luxury of being misinformed.

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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby JazzOne » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:33 pm

Flanker1067 wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:has anybody consider that ITE is not a temporary condition, but rather the economy that has developed after decades of greed and we are stuck with? I believe that outsourcing and streamlining of workforces has left us with an economy that will be tough to rebuild.


This seems reasonable, but every time the economy goes south people jump on this bandwagon (different reasons, same idea, the economy is permanently changing), and every time they are wrong.

I was interviewing for a firm job two days ago, and the discussion turned to the economy and the bottleneck of attorneys currently waiting on the sidelines. The interviewer opined that it would take years to work through this glut, and I countered that this might represent a permanent shift in the field. Sadly, he didn't disagree. I think things will get better, but I also think it will be wise for firms to reevaluate their prior ITE hiring practices going forward.

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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby awesomepossum » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:47 pm

At this point nobody knows what the economy is going to look like 2-3 years down the line. If you're a 0L right now, I don't think there's much point in sitting and waiting if you want to be a lawyer. If you do that, by the time things get cushy, it'll be time for the next recession to wallop you in the face.

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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby ruleser » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:58 pm

GATORTIM wrote:has anybody consider that ITE is not a temporary condition, but rather the economy that has developed after decades of greed and we are stuck with? I believe that outsourcing and streamlining of workforces has left us with an economy that will be tough to rebuild.

Ding ding ding.

This is no downturn, this is the result of the third-worlding of america by conservative economics. Jobs are overseas and we know why - it hasnr been fixed, so how would the economy improve?

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englawyer
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby englawyer » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:32 pm

ruleser wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:has anybody consider that ITE is not a temporary condition, but rather the economy that has developed after decades of greed and we are stuck with? I believe that outsourcing and streamlining of workforces has left us with an economy that will be tough to rebuild.

Ding ding ding.

This is no downturn, this is the result of the third-worlding of america by conservative economics. Jobs are overseas and we know why - it hasnr been fixed, so how would the economy improve?


while many jobs have been shipped overseas, shareholders, their money/capital and profits for the most part have stayed here. when Apple sells Ipods, the profit recipients are for the most part American and the managers/decision makers are still here.

the overseas trend shouldn't impact high-end professional service firms that much, because the institutional clients will still be American and will still want to hire the best of the best. top law firms have thus far been able to convince corporations and whatnot that paying "a little extra" for their services is worth more than commodity legal work. otherwise those clients would just hire the joe-schmoe firms of the world and/or outsource legal work.

the people getting screwed in all of this are those that used to work for American corporations in America (working class and middle class) who now have no job options.

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los blancos
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby los blancos » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:15 pm

ruleser wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:has anybody consider that ITE is not a temporary condition, but rather the economy that has developed after decades of greed and we are stuck with? I believe that outsourcing and streamlining of workforces has left us with an economy that will be tough to rebuild.

Ding ding ding.

This is no downturn, this is the result of the third-worlding of america by conservative economics. Jobs are overseas and we know why - it hasnr been fixed, so how would the economy improve?


lulz at "conservative economics" like corporate welfare, traditional protectionism of American industry over the last 3 decades, and out of control fiscal policies.
Last edited by los blancos on Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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los blancos
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby los blancos » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:15 pm

awesomepossum wrote:At this point nobody knows what the economy is going to look like 2-3 years down the line. If you're a 0L right now, I don't think there's much point in sitting and waiting if you want to be a lawyer. If you do that, by the time things get cushy, it'll be time for the next recession to wallop you in the face.



Eh if that's the case we'll just get laid off anyways when the next recession hits.

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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby awesomepossum » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:43 pm

los blancos wrote:
awesomepossum wrote:At this point nobody knows what the economy is going to look like 2-3 years down the line. If you're a 0L right now, I don't think there's much point in sitting and waiting if you want to be a lawyer. If you do that, by the time things get cushy, it'll be time for the next recession to wallop you in the face.



Eh if that's the case we'll just get laid off anyways when the next recession hits.



true. that's why you might as well just do whatever you want to do and not try to time the economy.

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los blancos
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby los blancos » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:17 pm

awesomepossum wrote:
los blancos wrote:
awesomepossum wrote:At this point nobody knows what the economy is going to look like 2-3 years down the line. If you're a 0L right now, I don't think there's much point in sitting and waiting if you want to be a lawyer. If you do that, by the time things get cushy, it'll be time for the next recession to wallop you in the face.



Eh if that's the case we'll just get laid off anyways when the next recession hits.



true. that's why you might as well just do whatever you want to do and not try to time the economy.


or looking for jobs that are recession-proof :mrgreen:

If you were a 0L right now (i.e., c/o 2013), would you feel safe going to MVP assuming you're going to end up at median?

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GATORTIM
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby GATORTIM » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:28 pm

I work for a large/"stable" personal lines insurer and have been fortunate enough to keep my decent paying position for the last few years, but you can cut the f'n job security tension here with a knife. Any and all IT projects or any type of development is quickly outsourced and there is virtually no movement (lateral or vertical) within the company. I absolutely hate my f'n job and although I certainly am somewhat apprehensive about removing myself from the workforce for a few years, I feel that it is worth it to pursue something I have always wanted. Sure, I could forgo or delay law school, but I could also be layed off at any moment.

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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby awesomepossum » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:17 pm

los blancos wrote:
If you were a 0L right now (i.e., c/o 2013), would you feel safe going to MVP assuming you're going to end up at median?


I think so. But I think it would also be with the realization that you're never "safe." I guess with the recent news, even being at Harvard isn't necessarily "safe."

In any case, I'm happy that I was at Michigan for class of '11. I have a summer job lined up that I'm looking forward to and so do most of my friends.

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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby crazycanuck » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:49 pm

Ringing my usual bell:

There is nothing wrong with having to go to a top school and getting good grades to get a 100k+ job when you are 0 work experience, and the rest pick up 30-40k+ jobs.

What IS wrong is charging 50k+ per year for tuition.

The schools are the real problem with the legal market. That's unlikely to be fixed any time soon.

This is the situation we have in Canada, the top students have the option of getting the 100k jobs in toronto or calgary, or the 80k jobs in Vancouver, and the rest go about getting their 40k or so jobs in small towns and smaller firms. However our tuition isn't out of control, and schools are very heavily regulated in how many students they can allow and whether they can open up a law school)

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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby OperaSoprano » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:06 pm

nealric wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that people below the median were stupid; only that law school is a very rare place in that people dont seem to accept that higher grades naturally lead to more job opportunities.


Really? I've never seen more grade obsession from people other than law students.


It's true. I can't remember the last 24 hour period in which I didn't think about grades, and I know I am very, very far from alone. Every time I want to go out, I am reminded of what I should be doing instead, and I don't even want a biglaw job.

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nealric
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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby nealric » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:09 pm

This is the situation we have in Canada, the top students have the option of getting the 100k jobs in toronto or calgary, or the 80k jobs in Vancouver, and the rest go about getting their 40k or so jobs in small towns and smaller firms. However our tuition isn't out of control, and schools are very heavily regulated in how many students they can allow and whether they can open up a law school)


For realz.

I really think the U. of Toronto & McGill have become an excellent deal for U.S. students who are willing to consider living in Canada long term.

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Re: Summer Associate Offers Plummet, Hitting 17-Year Low

Postby A'nold » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:16 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
nealric wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that people below the median were stupid; only that law school is a very rare place in that people dont seem to accept that higher grades naturally lead to more job opportunities.


Really? I've never seen more grade obsession from people other than law students.


It's true. I can't remember the last 24 hour period in which I didn't think about grades, and I know I am very, very far from alone. Every time I want to go out, I am reminded of what I should be doing instead, and I don't even want a biglaw job.


Haha, for some reason I read your post as "everytime I want to put out..." I had to do a double take.

Yeah, I can't remember a span of 10 minutes where I have not thought about law school, grades, careers, transfering, law review, etc. in the past like year, but then again I am obsessive.




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