If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

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Anonymous User
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If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:42 pm

up, how bad does it look to tell the employer you initially accepted an offer with "thanks, but no thanks"?

Renzo
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:30 pm

How would you feel if they rescinded your offer after you accepted because a better candidate came along? It would look that bad.

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ggocat
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby ggocat » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:12 pm

Renzo wrote:How would you feel if they rescinded your offer after you accepted because a better candidate came along? It would look that bad.

+1

Plus, as a lawyer, you really must depend on your reputation. Backing out of a commitment will appear unprofessional and will reflect negatively on your reputation. Don't do it.

If you accepted only one summer position, then try to see if both the old and new employer will allow you to split.

the pecan sandies
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby the pecan sandies » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:50 pm

depends how much better....what are we looking at here?

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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:43 am

My advice: talk to an attorney that you trust about this. TLS posters and CSO counselors always say you will go to hell for this. But whenever I talk to real professionals, the advice is usually: you gotta do what you gotta do. It's not like you signed a contract.

I would, however, be careful. Like the previous posters have said, you don't want word to get around that you reneged. That can be dangerous. Again, talk to an attorney you know. The decision also depends on how much better the opportunity is and how related each opportunity is to what you want to do.

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BradyToMoss
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby BradyToMoss » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My advice: talk to an attorney that you trust about this. TLS posters and CSO counselors always say you will go to hell for this. But whenever I talk to real professionals, the advice is usually: you gotta do what you gotta do. It's not like you signed a contract.

I would, however, be careful. Like the previous posters have said, you don't want word to get around that you reneged. That can be dangerous. Again, talk to an attorney you know. The decision also depends on how much better the opportunity is and how related each opportunity is to what you want to do.


This. There's a lot of variants at play here (difference in prospects from the jobs, which market these places are in and where you want to end up). Your professional reputation is important, but so are your career options, and in this economy you need to look out for #1.

amped
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby amped » Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:43 pm

BradyToMoss wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My advice: talk to an attorney that you trust about this. TLS posters and CSO counselors always say you will go to hell for this. But whenever I talk to real professionals, the advice is usually: you gotta do what you gotta do. It's not like you signed a contract.

I would, however, be careful. Like the previous posters have said, you don't want word to get around that you reneged. That can be dangerous. Again, talk to an attorney you know. The decision also depends on how much better the opportunity is and how related each opportunity is to what you want to do.


This. There's a lot of variants at play here (difference in prospects from the jobs, which market these places are in and where you want to end up). Your professional reputation is important, but so are your career options, and in this economy you need to look out for #1.


Finally some rational people on this board. Welcome to the real world folks. Just because your career counselor says it, doesn't mean it's true.

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adameus
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby adameus » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:05 pm

amped wrote:
BradyToMoss wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My advice: talk to an attorney that you trust about this. TLS posters and CSO counselors always say you will go to hell for this. But whenever I talk to real professionals, the advice is usually: you gotta do what you gotta do. It's not like you signed a contract.

I would, however, be careful. Like the previous posters have said, you don't want word to get around that you reneged. That can be dangerous. Again, talk to an attorney you know. The decision also depends on how much better the opportunity is and how related each opportunity is to what you want to do.


This. There's a lot of variants at play here (difference in prospects from the jobs, which market these places are in and where you want to end up). Your professional reputation is important, but so are your career options, and in this economy you need to look out for #1.


Finally some rational people on this board. Welcome to the real world folks. Just because your career counselor says it, doesn't mean it's true.



Career counsellors are really looking out for the school's best interests and not yours. They care that the school will look bad if one of their students renegs on an offer. I say talk to the firm that gave you the 2nd offer and tell them the situation. They should be able to give you decent advice.

democrattotheend
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby democrattotheend » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:06 am

I've been wondering about this too. I know public interest jobs hire later than OCI, so isn't skipping OCI if you want public interest a big risk? Do some people line up jobs at OCI but then apply to public interest? I feel like that wouldn't be so bad since there are lots of people who want biglaw who don't get it at OCI and the firm could easily fill the spot. But is that considered a terrible thing to do? If so, do people who want public interest for 2L summer just skip OCI and take the risk of not finding anything?

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Wahoo1L
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby Wahoo1L » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:39 am

democrattotheend wrote:I've been wondering about this too. I know public interest jobs hire later than OCI, so isn't skipping OCI if you want public interest a big risk? Do some people line up jobs at OCI but then apply to public interest? I feel like that wouldn't be so bad since there are lots of people who want biglaw who don't get it at OCI and the firm could easily fill the spot. But is that considered a terrible thing to do? If so, do people who want public interest for 2L summer just skip OCI and take the risk of not finding anything?


I believe there is some provision in the NALP Guidelines that says you can contact one firm and ask them to keep the offer open until you hear back from public interest jobs. I discussed this with my CSO and he indicated this usually wasn't a problem. Keep in mind NALP Guidelines are merely recommendations and firms aren't obliged to follow them.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:40 am

Do you need to look out for #1? Sure.

Looking out for #1 involves realizing that if you back out of an offer you accepted, the firm will contact your school. They may insist on submitting a formal complaint to be placed in your record, and the school will probably oblige, because your actions made the school look bad, and the school cares a lot more about staying in the firm's good graces than yours. That record will come up in the C&F evaluation. That record may come up in future interviews. That record WILL come up if you ask for any clerkship recommendations or (if you're a 1L) you try to transfer.

OCS may lock you out of ALL OCS services--including OCI (if you're a 1L), Clerkship processing, post-graduate career advice, etc.

Depending on your school, you may be disqualified from the LRAP program or any other loan assistance. You may lose any scholarship you have.

In the best case scenario, you'll just fuck your reputation up.

You are a law student. You are not on an even playing field with employers. You're asking to get nailed if you do this.

Edit: By the way, I know someone who did this. They had a much, much more valid excuse than "something better came along." They got thwacked.

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underachiever
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby underachiever » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:up, how bad does it look to tell the employer you initially accepted an offer with "thanks, but no thanks"?


I mean its not a good thing!
But i could see reasons why you could do it.
I would serious think it over...and to begin with you shouldn't just accept a job unless u are set on it, its a dick thing to do.

Talk to your career office, talk to a practicing lawyer in the field (ie big law, public interest) and If it is a judge ur pulling out on, u may be screwed if you want to work in that same location again (ie, walking into that judge's court room 3 years from now will suck for u and ur client)
Good luck

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:48 am

Talking to the career office will be a waste of time/probably even detrimental. The very fact that you're considering this will make the CSO basically write you off for the rest of your time in law school.

Edit: Also-- Dear poster above me: You are on a law school message board. You are not sending a goddamned text message to your high school BFF. For fuck's sake, type out "you". I don't care that this is the internet--"u" look like an ingrate.

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ggocat
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby ggocat » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:01 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Edit: By the way, I know someone who did this. They had a much, much more valid excuse than "something better came along." They got thwacked.

Just curious. What was the reason, and what was the result?

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:03 am

ggocat wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Edit: By the way, I know someone who did this. They had a much, much more valid excuse than "something better came along." They got thwacked.

Just curious. What was the reason, and what was the result?


Not going to answer this question out of respect for the person it happened to, sorry.

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ggocat
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby ggocat » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:46 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
ggocat wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Edit: By the way, I know someone who did this. They had a much, much more valid excuse than "something better came along." They got thwacked.

Just curious. What was the reason, and what was the result?


Not going to answer this question out of respect for the person it happened to, sorry.

I asked because I wanted to know if any of the things you described happened, as follows:
OCS may lock you out of ALL OCS services--including OCI (if you're a 1L), Clerkship processing, post-graduate career advice, etc.

Depending on your school, you may be disqualified from the LRAP program or any other loan assistance. You may lose any scholarship you have.

Some of that seems extreme, and "thwacked" (to me) suggests at least some of what you described happened to your friend. I'm trying to gauge your basis for suggesting the possible adverse consequences. (And I'm not trying to be snarky here... I'm just thinking that if you say someone could lose a scholarship, LRAP, CSO privileges, etc., then there should be some concrete example you can point to).

Students have backed out of work at my school, but I'm not aware of any direct consequences like the ones you describe. It certainly reflects negatively on that person's reputation, among both employers and classmates. If a classmate doesn't honor commitments, it looks bad for the whole school. I'm embarrassed when it happens.

Regardless of whether the school takes any direct action, I think it's a bad idea to "trade up" with employers.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:35 pm

I will say: The person was locked out of OCI, and a statement was placed in their record.

Anonymous User
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:19 am

Renzo wrote:How would you feel if they rescinded your offer after you accepted because a better candidate came along? It would look that bad.



firms do this ALL the time, they offer then take it back (so many of my friends have had this happen)...and your school counselor is looking out for themselves and their job, not you, which is why they tell you not to do it--

legends159
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby legends159 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Renzo wrote:How would you feel if they rescinded your offer after you accepted because a better candidate came along? It would look that bad.



firms do this ALL the time, they offer then take it back (so many of my friends have had this happen)...and your school counselor is looking out for themselves and their job, not you, which is why they tell you not to do it--


just b/c a firm does something doesn't justify you doing it back to them. Plus who know if OP is thinking of rescinding an offer with a firm or with a public interest organization.

Firms also have a lot more leverage than law students. One law student who gets screwed might make an ATL headline and fizzle away. Maybe if he's really victimized the dean will go out of his/her way to help. An employer that is pissed can call the school, forward the name to other firms and otherwise make things tough for the student.

The chances of that happening might be low, maybe they have a whole list of other qualified candidates, but there is a risk.

Renzo
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Re: If you accepted a summer position but something better comes

Postby Renzo » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Renzo wrote:How would you feel if they rescinded your offer after you accepted because a better candidate came along? It would look that bad.



firms do this ALL the time, they offer then take it back (so many of my friends have had this happen)...and your school counselor is looking out for themselves and their job, not you, which is why they tell you not to do it--

ALL the time is not untrue, but a misstatement. Firms don't do it "all the time," but they did do it with enthusiasm last year.

I never said that there was never a reason to do it, but it does reflect really poorly on the person who does it. SInce almost no 1L jobs these days lead to permanant offers, it would be silly in almost all situations to damage your reputation before your career even starts. The only thing that might make me reconsider is a market-paying firm gig. $30k changes a lot.




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