Need $ Forum

[A'nold]

I need to save money to transfer and getting a paying 1L job from my school is basically unheard of. Can I just work odd jobs during the summer and explain during OCI interviews that I HAD to make money to afford coming to that school? Thanks.

[pleasetryagain]

odd jobs are hard to find these days..

as to your question I have no idea

[legends159]

I don't see why not. It shows good character. Plus most 1L's aren't going to learn anything amazing in 10 weeks of summer employment.

I could see it making you stand out. Hopefully in a good way.

[gglr24]

I think it would hurt you. Firms have their pick right now, and having some kind of 1L experience is probably crucial.

From a pragmatic view, even if you manage to pull off like 10 grand doing odd jobs this summer... that is not significant in the big picture. When you transfer, you are not going to get a scholarship, and an extra 10,000 won't be a huge deal.

[gglr24]

I'll add one more thing: perhaps the perfect scenario would be doing some part-time volunteer legal work in addition to odd jobs.

[vanwinkle]

I need to save money to transfer and getting a paying 1L job from my school is basically unheard of. Can I just work odd jobs during the summer and explain during OCI interviews that I HAD to make money to afford coming to that school? Thanks.

Given how competitive the job market is right now, not having any work experience this summer is going to be an enormous black mark on your resume next summer when you're looking for paying 2L work. And since your 2L summer job is often the lead-in to permanent employment, screwing that up can lead to worse things...

Generally you do not want to be the person who has to explain why they got no legal experience their first summer. If you need that much money and your grades are that good, go find out which of your professors typically pays a respectable stipend and suck up for the chance to be his/her research assistant for the summer.

[A'nold]

Yeah, I might try the research assistant route. I get where you guys are coming from, however, it's not that I'm trying to decrease my future debt, I actually have no way to afford the MOVE. I figure an entire move with deposit and everything is going to cost me around 5 grand. I do not have that money right now. I can't borrow it and I don't have a credit line that big. Basically, it's either do this and transfer and hope it doesn't hurt me too much or stay and work for free and graduate from a t3 school. I think I'd rather opt for the "take the chance" and explain my circumstances option as legends said but if you guys honestly think it would be so awful to do that, I need to figure something else out.

Maybe I could work for $ and then do some kind of volunteer, one full-time week or a few hours a week thing on the side, but I don't know if I could find anything like that. What about small firm volunteer work? Would that be at least SOMETHING to show that I did legal work?

[gglr24]

That would be better than nothing. Do you have a public interest and government law fair at your school this spring? Some of those positions are part-time.

[Anonymous User]

Some options:

- Where I live, small firms pay their interns and I know of at least one judge (family court) in my area that pays interns, so maybe there are others who do. In both cases pay will be very low.

- You can do some kind of volunteer legal thing that's not too taxing and work elsewhere nights & weekends. Restaurants, bars, and clubs would probably be best bets for nights & weekends.

- You can try to get an RA job where the professor will let you work remotely & on your own time over the summer rather than expecting you to stay on campus. That will allow you to do other work, legal or not, and still get paid for the research and have a legal job on your resume for the summer. I'll be working full-time this summer and still be an RA.

[baboon309]

Yeah, I might try the research assistant route. I get where you guys are coming from, however, it's not that I'm trying to decrease my future debt, I actually have no way to afford the MOVE. I figure an entire move with deposit and everything is going to cost me around 5 grand. I do not have that money right now. I can't borrow it and I don't have a credit line that big. Basically, it's either do this and transfer and hope it doesn't hurt me too much or stay and work for free and graduate from a t3 school. I think I'd rather opt for the "take the chance" and explain my circumstances option as legends said but if you guys honestly think it would be so awful to do that, I need to figure something else out.

Maybe I could work for $ and then do some kind of volunteer, one full-time week or a few hours a week thing on the side, but I don't know if I could find anything like that. What about small firm volunteer work? Would that be at least SOMETHING to show that I did legal work?

How`s your credit history? Why dont you try prosper.com? Once you move to there, you can pay it back immediately with your student loan.

[legends159]

find an odd job that has flexible hours or a night shift. Do the whole legal internship thin 9-5 and then the 2nd job and save up every dime. It'll make for a hell of a story at OCI if the recruiter sees, [law job] summer 2010; Walmart summer 2010 and then you explain that you did what you had to do to survive and that's just the kind of person you are, not afraid to work long hours, not entitled, willing to do whatever it takes to get ahead.

[Oblomov]

From a pragmatic view, even if you manage to pull off like 10 grand doing odd jobs this summer... that is not significant in the big picture. When you transfer, you are not going to get a scholarship, and an extra 10,000 won't be a huge deal.

The real world is calling you and would like to inform you that most people just don't have ten thousand dollars lying around. It's not an issue of debt, its an issue of cash.

[A'nold]

Great advice guys, thanks! And oblomov- lol!

[270910]

NO, NO, NO, NO. It is the kiss of death not to do LEGAL WORK as a 1L. If you're gunning for a firm job, it will be a huge black mark on your record. They really expect you to get that experience.

Try to land an RA gig, they pay (something like ~$15 an hour at most places?) but for the love of God don't jeopardize your chance at a 6 figure payout by spending the summer doing something not legal.

The real world is calling you and would like to inform you that most people just don't have ten thousand dollars lying around. It's not an issue of debt, its an issue of cash.

Dude, the fed guarantees loans up to CoL. If you can't make that stretch to include the basics over a summer, you need to hit the bar less during the semester.

[A'nold]

NO, NO, NO, NO. It is the kiss of death not to do LEGAL WORK as a 1L. If you're gunning for a firm job, it will be a huge black mark on your record. They really expect you to get that experience.

Try to land an RA gig, they pay (something like ~$15 an hour at most places?) but for the love of God don't jeopardize your chance at a 6 figure payout by spending the summer doing something not legal.

The real world is calling you and would like to inform you that most people just don't have ten thousand dollars lying around. It's not an issue of debt, its an issue of cash.

Dude, the fed guarantees loans up to CoL. If you can't make that stretch to include the basics over a summer, you need to hit the bar less during the semester.

Haha. I have enough money to "make it through the summer" just not 5k extra to move to a new school for a transfer.

[vanwinkle]

NO, NO, NO, NO. It is the kiss of death not to do LEGAL WORK as a 1L. If you're gunning for a firm job, it will be a huge black mark on your record. They really expect you to get that experience.

Try to land an RA gig, they pay (something like ~$15 an hour at most places?) but for the love of God don't jeopardize your chance at a 6 figure payout by spending the summer doing something not legal.

The real world is calling you and would like to inform you that most people just don't have ten thousand dollars lying around. It's not an issue of debt, its an issue of cash.

Dude, the fed guarantees loans up to CoL. If you can't make that stretch to include the basics over a summer, you need to hit the bar less during the semester.

Haha. I have enough money to "make it through the summer" just not 5k extra to move to a new school for a transfer.

[A'nold]

NO, NO, NO, NO. It is the kiss of death not to do LEGAL WORK as a 1L. If you're gunning for a firm job, it will be a huge black mark on your record. They really expect you to get that experience.

Try to land an RA gig, they pay (something like ~$15 an hour at most places?) but for the love of God don't jeopardize your chance at a 6 figure payout by spending the summer doing something not legal.

The real world is calling you and would like to inform you that most people just don't have ten thousand dollars lying around. It's not an issue of debt, its an issue of cash.

Dude, the fed guarantees loans up to CoL. If you can't make that stretch to include the basics over a summer, you need to hit the bar less during the semester.

Haha. I have enough money to "make it through the summer" just not 5k extra to move to a new school for a transfer.

Lol, my credit is crappy to mediocre....we'll see.

[XxSpyKEx]

I over-borrowed my 2nd semester (i.e. more then I needed) by exactly $5K to cover the cost of moving, seat-deposits, rent deposit, books, and literally everything (it really does add up close to $5K when it's all said and done). If you can still somehow borrow an extra $5K from student loans I would recommend it -- I mean if you are transferring you are going to see something like $150K-160K in debt total anyway even if you went to law school for free your 1st year when you factor in interest on the $65K-70K borrowing budgets at top schools.

[A'nold]

I over-borrowed my 2nd semester (i.e. more then I needed) by exactly $5K to cover the cost of moving, seat-deposits, rent deposit, books, and literally everything (it really does add up close to $5K when it's all said and done). If you can still somehow borrow an extra $5K from student loans I would recommend it -- I mean if you are transferring you are going to see something like $150K-160K in debt total anyway even if you went to law school for free your 1st year when you factor in interest on the $65K-70K borrowing budgets at top schools.

I already "overborrowed" by 4k this semester.....

[BradyToMoss]

OP, I was in the same situation as you heading into 1L summer. I was unable to land a paid gig, I was screwed for money, and I chose to live at home for the summer and make $ in my non-legal related job instead of paying rent in my school's city and making less $ as a part-time research assistant or making nothing in a host of other 1L opportunities.

The lack of legal experience during the 1L summer was unquestionably a gaping problem on my resume. All employers asked about it, I explained my $ situation and how I chose to work long hours instead to make it work. Most employers were turned off by it, rather than seeing it as a sign of character as mentioned earlier. I suspect it cost me call backs at several firms, and certainly put me at a disadvantage against my peers. I was fortunate enough to receive an offer eventually, but I would advise strongly against pursuing a 1L summer option that is not in the legal field.

The research assistant is a good alternative for a potential paying job (albeit it a fairly low pay). At 2L OCI firms will prefer experience with judges, DAs, public defenders, firms etc. to experience as a research assistant, but the RA position on the resume puts you in a much better position than having nothing in the legal arena.

[A'nold]

OP, I was in the same situation as you heading into 1L summer. I was unable to land a paid gig, I was screwed for money, and I chose to live at home for the summer and make $ in my non-legal related job instead of paying rent in my school's city and making less $ as a part-time research assistant or making nothing in a host of other 1L opportunities.

The lack of legal experience during the 1L summer was unquestionably a gaping problem on my resume. All employers asked about it, I explained my $ situation and how I chose to work long hours instead to make it work. Most employers were turned off by it, rather than seeing it as a sign of character as mentioned earlier. I suspect it cost me call backs at several firms, and certainly put me at a disadvantage against my peers. I was fortunate enough to receive an offer eventually, but I would advise strongly against pursuing a 1L summer option that is not in the legal field.

The research assistant is a good alternative for a potential paying job (albeit it a fairly low pay). At 2L OCI firms will prefer experience with judges, DAs, public defenders, firms etc. to experience as a research assistant, but the RA position on the resume puts you in a much better position than having nothing in the legal arena.

Wow, thanks for that post. I will definitely try to find SOMETHING to do that relates to legal work. Do you think working for a solo doing some grunt work would be enough or does it have to be prestigeous?

[legends159]

OP, I was in the same situation as you heading into 1L summer. I was unable to land a paid gig, I was screwed for money, and I chose to live at home for the summer and make $ in my non-legal related job instead of paying rent in my school's city and making less $ as a part-time research assistant or making nothing in a host of other 1L opportunities.

The lack of legal experience during the 1L summer was unquestionably a gaping problem on my resume. All employers asked about it, I explained my $ situation and how I chose to work long hours instead to make it work. Most employers were turned off by it, rather than seeing it as a sign of character as mentioned earlier. I suspect it cost me call backs at several firms, and certainly put me at a disadvantage against my peers. I was fortunate enough to receive an offer eventually, but I would advise strongly against pursuing a 1L summer option that is not in the legal field.

The research assistant is a good alternative for a potential paying job (albeit it a fairly low pay). At 2L OCI firms will prefer experience with judges, DAs, public defenders, firms etc. to experience as a research assistant, but the RA position on the resume puts you in a much better position than having nothing in the legal arena.

Hm...that's solid advice. I was told by a partner that he'd look highly on someone who did something non-legal b/c of financial constraints b/c it shows good character but he's also old and never did 2L OCI so I'd take your advice.

As for legal experience and whether it needs to be prestigious. Prestige helps b/c it is easier to talk about your summer when the other person is more interested. But if you do interesting work and can spin it well then you can overcome the hurdle of not doing a "prestigious" summer job

[BradyToMoss]

I think working for a solo practitioner or a small firm doing "grunt work" would also be good. It may lack the "prestige" of working for a notable judge or major DA's office, but you'll be developing legal skills that future employers won't have to teach you. Additionally, you'll have someone that can vouch for you as an actual worker, someone who is professional, able to quickly pick up new skills, reliable, hard-working etc.

Hm...that's solid advice. I was told by a partner that he'd look highly on someone who did something non-legal b/c of financial constraints b/c it shows good character but he's also old and never did 2L OCI so I'd take your advice.

I felt like a couple associates or partners I spoke with respected what I had done, but they were certainly outnumbered by associates and partners who saw it as a problem or a hole in my resume. And even if the people you interview with don't seem to mind, ultimately a larger group will be making the decision, and given how competitive it is for most of these positions, hiring committees will usually be choosing from many highly-qualified individuals, and one weak spot often makes it easy enough for them to rule out your candidacy.

[270910]

I felt like a couple associates or partners I spoke with respected what I had done, but they were certainly outnumbered by associates and partners who saw it as a problem or a hole in my resume. And even if the people you interview with don't seem to mind, ultimately a larger group will be making the decision, and given how competitive it is for most of these positions, hiring committees will usually be choosing from many highly-qualified individuals, and one weak spot often makes it easy enough for them to rule out your candidacy.

Yup. In our horrific legal economy, leaving such an obvious opening for the hiring ranks to ding you when they try to sort through stacks of resumes / non-distinguishing interviews is whatever the opposite of TCR is.

[Anonymous User]

I think working for a solo practitioner or a small firm doing "grunt work" would also be good. It may lack the "prestige" of working for a notable judge or major DA's office, but you'll be developing legal skills that future employers won't have to teach you. Additionally, you'll have someone that can vouch for you as an actual worker, someone who is professional, able to quickly pick up new skills, reliable, hard-working etc.

TITCR, especially if the small firm or solo does plaintiff's work in cases where biglaw or midlaw does defense. One small plaintiff's firm I know of has quite a few "alums" working in midlaw and biglaw, either former summer clerks or former FT employees. The attorneys at the small firm have friendly relationships with a number of biglaw associates and partners, even though they oppose each other in court. Even a small firm can help you make connections.