Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

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CMR
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Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby CMR » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:59 pm

Cooley student here. 27 credits in the bank, 3.88 GPA, ranked between 5-10 out of my class out of 400+ students. Classes are ranked by credits completed, with both part and full time students accounted for; as a result, while I believe I'm at the top of the full time rankings, these aren't available and thus I'm stuck with these stats.

In my opinion I'm a bit of an outlier for my school, and I also believe I'm a relatively strong interview - begging the question, of course, whether I could even get one. I'm giving transfer strong consideration, but want to make sure I'm completely informed before doing so. I attended Cooley because it was in my hometown, not because it was my only choice. I've been RAing for one prof since midway through my first term, and am now also RAing for our associate dean. Any constructive criticism or thoughts would be appreciated - obviously this is a post sure to draw some negative attention; I'm just trying to make an educated decision and sort the reality from the hyperbole. Thanks in advance!

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Joga Bonito
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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby Joga Bonito » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:03 pm

CMR wrote:Cooley student here. 27 credits in the bank, 3.88 GPA, ranked between 5-10 out of my class out of 400+ students. Classes are ranked by credits completed, with both part and full time students accounted for; as a result, while I believe I'm at the top of the full time rankings, these aren't available and thus I'm stuck with these stats.

In my opinion I'm a bit of an outlier for my school, and I also believe I'm a relatively strong interview - begging the question, of course, whether I could even get one. I'm giving transfer strong consideration, but want to make sure I'm completely informed before doing so. I attended Cooley because it was in my hometown, not because it was my only choice. I've been RAing for one prof since midway through my first term, and am now also RAing for our associate dean. Any constructive criticism or thoughts would be appreciated - obviously this is a post sure to draw some negative attention; I'm just trying to make an educated decision and sort the reality from the hyperbole. Thanks in advance!


The only thing that should be on your mind right now should be doing really well this semester so you can transfer.

gglr24
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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby gglr24 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:07 pm

While you should probably transfer, that wasn't his question.

Yes, top 2% from any school will get you midlaw, but it will be confined to that region. You may get lucky and score a job from another region, but I would say that is unlikely.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby CMR » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:08 pm

Joga Bonito wrote:The only thing that should be on your mind right now should be doing really well this semester so you can transfer.


I'm really at my transfer ceiling right now in terms of credits, so my performance this term probably isn't quite as important, as I'll be sending out my transcripts before this term even finishes (or at least before the grades come back). But your point is well taken. Having said that, however, I'm still uncertain as to whether transferring and being top 20% at a T50 school would put me in better shape than being #1 in my class here; I know that sounds naive, but really, it seems like the school would have to have some interest in placing the top student in a class somewhere (assuming, of course, I could maintain my performance, but I'm personally 100% confident I can).

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby Joga Bonito » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:09 pm

gglr24 wrote:While you should probably transfer, that wasn't his question.

Yes, top 2% from any school will get you midlaw, but it will be confined to that region. You may get lucky and score a job from another region, but I would say that is unlikely.


I know what his question is and it shouldn't be his top priority right now, but thanks for your input anyway.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby CMR » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:10 pm

gglr24 wrote:While you should probably transfer, that wasn't his question.

Yes, top 2% from any school will get you midlaw, but it will be confined to that region. You may get lucky and score a job from another region, but I would say that is unlikely.


This is a big concern for me, as I love my family and friends, but would like a bit of a buffer. The only city I could really see myself in long term regionally would be Ann Arbor, but I'm guessing there's a bit of competition in that particular market :).

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby CMR » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:12 pm

Joga Bonito wrote:
I know what his question is and it shouldn't be his top priority right now, but thanks for your input anyway.


I'd say what makes me most nervous right now is I have nothing at all lined up for the summer. You're on your own here when it comes to lining up anything, and things aren't looking to bright right now (though I can fall back on my two RA positions, so I guess relative to my peers I'm in decent shape).

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:13 pm

CMR wrote:
gglr24 wrote:While you should probably transfer, that wasn't his question.

Yes, top 2% from any school will get you midlaw, but it will be confined to that region. You may get lucky and score a job from another region, but I would say that is unlikely.


This is a big concern for me, as I love my family and friends, but would like a bit of a buffer. The only city I could really see myself in long term regionally would be Ann Arbor, but I'm guessing there's a bit of competition in that particular market :).


you think?

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Joga Bonito
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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby Joga Bonito » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:14 pm

CMR wrote:
Joga Bonito wrote:The only thing that should be on your mind right now should be doing really well this semester so you can transfer.


I'm really at my transfer ceiling right now in terms of credits, so my performance this term probably isn't quite as important, as I'll be sending out my transcripts before this term even finishes (or at least before the grades come back). But your point is well taken. Having said that, however, I'm still uncertain as to whether transferring and being top 20% at a T50 school would put me in better shape than being #1 in my class here; I know that sounds naive, but really, it seems like the school would have to have some interest in placing the top student in a class somewhere (assuming, of course, I could maintain my performance, but I'm personally 100% confident I can).


I hear ya, but I think its too risky to stay there if you don't have to, down the road the name on your degree will matter more than being number 1 at Cooley but it really depends on what your goals are and where you wanna be. If you ever decide to leave Michigan Cooley will not help. Apply ed to gtwon, washu or something.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby starstruck393 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:16 pm

CMR wrote:
gglr24 wrote:While you should probably transfer, that wasn't his question.

Yes, top 2% from any school will get you midlaw, but it will be confined to that region. You may get lucky and score a job from another region, but I would say that is unlikely.


This is a big concern for me, as I love my family and friends, but would like a bit of a buffer. The only city I could really see myself in long term regionally would be Ann Arbor, but I'm guessing there's a bit of competition in that particular market :).


There really isn't competition for A2 in the regular sense, there's just not much of a legal market. A few decent size firms, but other than that just small firms.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby CMR » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:20 pm

Joga Bonito wrote:I hear ya, but I think its too risky to stay there if you don't have to, down the road the name on your degree will matter more than being number 1 at Cooley but it really depends on what your goals are and where you wanna be. If you ever decide to leave Michigan Cooley will not help. Apply ed to gtwon, washu or something.


I'll definitely be applying to GULC among others. My goal is UMich - see http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =9&t=99411 - but I recognize that I don't have a high probability of admission there...I mention it only because it's the one school I plan to apply to at this point that I would without hesitation attend regardless of cost or needing to throw away my scholarship. Just trying to troll for information at this point. A lot of employers say they'd give me a look if I maintained my current ranking, but I can't help but worry that they're just being polite.



starstruck393 wrote:There really isn't competition for A2 in the regular sense, there's just not much of a legal market. A few decent size firms, but other than that just small firms.


Yeah, I'm on the other side of the state, and the only firms I know of over there are Werner and Canfield. I'm assuming there's more of a market in the area surrounding Detroit, so I guess commuting would be an option.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby Joga Bonito » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:27 pm

CMR wrote:
Joga Bonito wrote:I hear ya, but I think its too risky to stay there if you don't have to, down the road the name on your degree will matter more than being number 1 at Cooley but it really depends on what your goals are and where you wanna be. If you ever decide to leave Michigan Cooley will not help. Apply ed to gtwon, washu or something.


I'll definitely be applying to GULC among others. My goal is UMich - see viewtopic.php?f=9&t=99411 - but I recognize that I don't have a high probability of admission there...I mention it only because it's the one school I plan to apply to at this point that I would without hesitation attend regardless of cost or needing to throw away my scholarship. Just trying to troll for information at this point. A lot of employers say they'd give me a look if I maintained my current ranking, but I can't help but worry that they're just being polite.


starstruck393 wrote:There really isn't competition for A2 in the regular sense, there's just not much of a legal market. A few decent size firms, but other than that just small firms.


Yeah, I'm on the other side of the state, and the only firms I know of over there are Werner and Canfield. I'm assuming there's more of a market in the area surrounding Detroit, so I guess commuting would be an option.


Thats what I would be concerned about, but I don't know.

I think you have a shot a UofM I just didn't mention them cause I don't know much about them as far as transfers are concerned, like whether or not they have a regional preference when looking for trasnfers, I would imagine that they at least take one or two from Cooley.

CMR
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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby CMR » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:36 pm

Joga Bonito wrote:
CMR wrote:
Thats what I would be concerned about, but I don't know.

I think you have a shot a UofM I just didn't mention them cause I don't know much about them as far as transfers are concerned, like whether or not they have a regional preference when looking for trasnfers, I would imagine that they at least take one or two from Cooley.


I certainly hope so. That would put me in a position to find a (good) clerkship post-JD, which is something I feel is out of reach right now regardless of my performance.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby CMR » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:17 pm

My biggest worry is that a partner from the region's biggest firm recently told me that they had an unofficial policy against hiring Cooley grads. That was a wake up call, and it also put a bit of a chip on my shoulder.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:21 pm

I do know a Cooley grad that works at a well respected midlaw firm in Portland. Impossible to repeat her success? No, but it seems difficult, even with top grades. I would look at transferring, just to be safe.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby kittenmittons » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:22 pm

What is midlaw?

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RVP11
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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:27 pm

I'm shaking my head at the "top 2% from any school gets you MidLaw" comment.

When some top 5% people at respected T1s aren't getting ANY BigLaw offers, you can be pretty sure that top 2% at one of the lowest accredited schools in the country is far from a guarantee of MidLaw, or any paid job at all.

Transfer.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:33 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:you can be pretty sure that top 2% at one of the lowest accredited schools in the country is far from a guarantee of MidLaw, or any paid job at all.

Ran here.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:43 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:I'm shaking my head at the "top 2% from any school gets you MidLaw" comment.

When some top 5% people at respected T1s aren't getting ANY BigLaw offers, you can be pretty sure that top 2% at one of the lowest accredited schools in the country is far from a guarantee of MidLaw, or any paid job at all.

Transfer.

"Some" being the operative word. It's quite possible that a few of those top 5% students withou offers also suffer from poor interviewing skills. It's still less risky if he transfers, but top 2% at Cooley is still not the end of the world.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby Oban » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:45 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:I'm shaking my head at the "top 2% from any school gets you MidLaw" comment.

When some top 5% people at respected T1s aren't getting ANY BigLaw offers, you can be pretty sure that top 2% at one of the lowest accredited schools in the country is far from a guarantee of MidLaw, or any paid job at all.

Transfer.


you can't guarantee any job with any rank, but i think the OP is fine getting "any paid job at all" with top 2 percent from cooley. People do get jobs from that school, something that often is obfuscated behind all of the self created rankings, and general poor reputation amoung TLS and elite firms.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby enygma » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:58 pm

FWIW I was at a job fair type thing the other week and met a girl who was a 3L at Cooley. She said she was #10 or 11 in her class and had so far been unable to secure a single interview. Our conversation was brief, so I didn't get any more detail. However, she didn't seem at all like someone who would have some abnormally terrible aspect to their personality or resume.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby oneforship » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:59 pm

enygma wrote:FWIW I was at a job fair type thing the other week and met a girl who was a 3L at Cooley. She said she was #10 or 11 in her class and had so far been unable to secure a single interview. Our conversation was brief, so I didn't get any more detail. However, she didn't seem at all like someone who would have some abnormally terrible aspect to their personality or resume.


She had Cooley on her resume.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby CMR » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:I do know a Cooley grad that works at a well respected midlaw firm in Portland. Impossible to repeat her success? No, but it seems difficult, even with top grades. I would look at transferring, just to be safe.


This is extremely encouraging, because at this point I'm split as to whether I'd like to stay in Michigan long term, where my friends and family are, or whether I'd instead like to move back out west, where I'd prefer to live. How long has she been practicing though? Because I get the sense that Cooley's reputation really didn't plummet until this decade or so; before the whole rankings debacle and expansion, I think they were just seen as another unranked school, no better or worse.

kittenmittons wrote:What is midlaw


A very broad, general term I use to subtly recognize that my employment prospects aren't great regardless of my ranking (in order to avoid incurring wrath) while concurrently keeping the breadth of my inquiry as wide as possible. Frankly, I don't have a clue except it's not big and not small.

enygma wrote:FWIW I was at a job fair type thing the other week and met a girl who was a 3L at Cooley. She said she was #10 or 11 in her class and had so far been unable to secure a single interview. Our conversation was brief, so I didn't get any more detail. However, she didn't seem at all like someone who would have some abnormally terrible aspect to their personality or resume.


Yeah, I've heard some horror stories from students ranked fairly decently. I'm assuming it's much worse if you're an out of state student.

This is all rather frustrating, because at the risk of sounding cocky, in my opinion I'd stack up fairly well in terms of intelligence and aptitude with nearly any student in the country. If almost any other unranked school had been in my hometown, I wouldn't have these worries right now, as I'd be fairly confident that I could at least secure an interview with my stats; here, however, I just don't have confidence that I'll even get that look. On the other hand, I've got two RA positions, a good relationship with a dean, a great reputation academically (though I think some professors regard me as arrogant because I tend to like discussing theory). I'm considering gutting it up, going to the dean and a couple other faculty that are regional partners, and asking very frankly about the current regional employment situation.

Everyone is telling me to transfer, but man, that's a LOT of money to put down in exchange for cutting all the contacts I've made so far. If I do decide to transfer, I'm literally going to lock myself away when the chance to write on comes up and live on 5 hour energy.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby CMR » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:54 am

JSUVA2012 wrote:I'm shaking my head at the "top 2% from any school gets you MidLaw" comment.

When some top 5% people at respected T1s aren't getting ANY BigLaw offers, you can be pretty sure that top 2% at one of the lowest accredited schools in the country is far from a guarantee of MidLaw, or any paid job at all.

Transfer.


Ok, I realize this is absurdly speculative, but would you stand by the no chance assessment if I were to graduate objectively #1? Not rhetorical, I'm seriously just trying to get as many perspectives as possible. Alternately, if I maintained top 2% and was the editor of law review? Enjoy the laugh, but yeah, we do have law review.

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Re: Would midlaw consider a top 2% student at Cooley?

Postby dutchstriker » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:44 am

CMR wrote:My biggest worry is that a partner from the region's biggest firm recently told me that they had an unofficial policy against hiring Cooley grads. That was a wake up call, and it also put a bit of a chip on my shoulder.

Varnum?




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