Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

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Aeroplane
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby Aeroplane » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:26 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Aeroplane wrote:Depends on what you mean by "big". If that means V100 in NY/DC/Chi, then I agree that 1L SA's are very rare. If it just means NLJ250 or firms paying local market rates, then I don't think it's that rare. A T14 student w/ties to a smaller market has a realistic, if not terrific, shot at a 1L SA. In many cases, even before grades come out.


The data I posted from UVA above should show that playing out. Yeah, we managed to plant a good chunk of people in firms, but teh vast majority went back to their home towns. Heaven forfend your home town be a major legal market (*mutters under his breath*).
It makes sense though: In large part the 1L SA is designed to give the student a taste of home town legal work that they probably won't look for as a 2L. My guess is firms have a decent retention rate for their 1L SAs once the student contrasts the quality of life with a big firm gig as a 2L. But who knows? Assuming rationality in the legal hiring market is a dangerous move.
Yeah, I dunno. I met a couple people who chose a smaller market after doing 2L SA's in a bigger one and cited QOL, but they all had personal reasons to be in the smaller market (spouse, etc). From what I've heard, I think I'd definitely prefer small-market life, but I wouldn't be committed to it if I didn't have personal reasons.

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RVP11
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby RVP11 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:17 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Aeroplane wrote:Depends on what you mean by "big". If that means V100 in NY/DC/Chi, then I agree that 1L SA's are very rare. If it just means NLJ250 or firms paying local market rates, then I don't think it's that rare. A T14 student w/ties to a smaller market has a realistic, if not terrific, shot at a 1L SA. In many cases, even before grades come out.


The data I posted from UVA above should show that playing out. Yeah, we managed to plant a good chunk of people in firms, but teh vast majority went back to their home towns. Heaven forfend your home town be a major legal market (*mutters under his breath*).

It makes sense though: In large part the 1L SA is designed to give the student a taste of home town legal work that they probably won't look for as a 2L. My guess is firms have a decent retention rate for their 1L SAs once the student contrasts the quality of life with a big firm gig as a 2L. But who knows? Assuming rationality in the legal hiring market is a dangerous move.


FML that I'm not one of those lucky people getting offers in my desirable little hometown. It is where I want/need to practice.

FWIW, every person I know who had a 1L SA in my home secondary market ditched out to NY/DC/CA for 2L SA and beyond. I'm sure the smaller market firms snagged some people they wouldn't have gotten otherwise, but as a rule the smaller market firms discontinuing 1L hiring was probably a wise choice. Most T14 types are just looking for the $2k+ weekly paycheck before they escape to a more fashionable legal market.

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Aeroplane
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby Aeroplane » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:29 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:FML that I'm not one of those lucky people getting offers in my desirable little hometown. It is where I want/need to practice.

FWIW, every person I know who had a 1L SA in my home secondary market ditched out to NY/DC/CA for 2L SA and beyond. I'm sure the smaller market firms snagged some people they wouldn't have gotten otherwise, but as a rule the smaller market firms discontinuing 1L hiring was probably a wise choice. Most T14 types are just looking for the $2k+ weekly paycheck before they escape to a more fashionable legal market.
I think the firms in smaller markets are pretty realistic about their retention prospects for T14 1L's, and I don't think that the only goal of the 1L programs is to snag people who were otherwise planning to go to NYC. Rather, I think they're aware that a small number of T14 students are already set on coming back after graduation, and they want to snag these before one of their local competitors does. As much as I'd love to believe that my resume, good looks, and personal charm were uber-impressive, I think my biggest selling point to local firms was "my SO is a lawyer here and is never ever going to be able to relocate due to his firm being a family business, therefore I absolutely must come back here after graduation."

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RVP11
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby RVP11 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:34 pm

The same was true for me (I have to come back to my hometown) but over half the big firms in town are not hiring any 1Ls as a rule. No matter the rationale behind 1L hiring in smaller markets, a ton of firms apparently haven't seen it to outweigh economic considerations, and the fact that it's a buyer's market in which you probably shouldn't waste $$$ paying 1Ls.

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Aeroplane
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby Aeroplane » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:37 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:The same was true for me (I have to come back to my hometown) but over half the big firms in town are not hiring any 1Ls as a rule. No matter the rationale behind 1L hiring in smaller markets, a ton of firms apparently haven't seen it to outweigh economic considerations, and the fact that it's a buyer's market in which you probably shouldn't waste $$$ paying 1Ls.
Yeah, that makes sense. In my town the big firms that are based here are all hiring 1L's, but none of the big firms that have sattelite offices here are doing so. I don't know if there's anything to be read into that, but it's kinda interesting.

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maks25
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby maks25 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:43 pm

Corsair wrote:
acdisagod wrote:Oh, and I was looking at some firms on NALP. It seems they higher far more 2Ls than 1Ls. Is this generally the case?


I'm generally not a grammar Nazi, but this one bothers me for some reason.

"Hire."



+1

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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:41 am

Do you have a technical background? IP people at my school have been doing OK at my school. I am median or slightly below, and had an offer from a V20 firm in a secondary market.

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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:00 am

~Top 1-5% CCN. Applied to 10 market pay firms as soon as 1st semester grades came out (i.e. fairly late). Indicated "current GPA" in the resume. I have 5 interviews coming up. Whether they actually hire me is a whole different story.

Edit: I had an "in" at 2 of the firms, 1 was through OCI, and I am geographically flexible.

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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:55 pm

In the words of an ever so wise person, the only 1Ls who receive SA jobs are a) female engineers; b) URMs; and c) people with "ridiculous resumes."

This was meant to parody what a well known blogger on this site once posted. It was just as ridiculous a statement pre-ITE as it is now.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Aeroplane
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby Aeroplane » Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:In the words of an ever so wise person, the only 1Ls who receive SA jobs are a) female engineers; b) URMs; and c) people with "ridiculous resumes."

1) That's not true IME [edited to remove unnecessary snark]
2) There was no reason for that to be anonymous.

Edit: I'd say that >80% of the 1L summer SA thing comes down to school rank + luck + state of legal market in the area targeted + local connections. The rest is other stuff.
Last edited by Aeroplane on Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

buslaw4302
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby buslaw4302 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:00 pm

I am within the top 5% at WUSTL and haven't been able to find anything for 1L summer yet (not even an interview!), but have amassed a huge stack of rejections from major and hometown markets... I am starting to think grades will have little to no effect on 1L summer (and I am a patent agent)
Last edited by buslaw4302 on Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TTT-LS
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby TTT-LS » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:45 pm

.
Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby starstruck393 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:08 pm

TTT-LS wrote:Yeah, the remark about 1L SAs only being URMs/female engineers/people with ridiculous resmumes (which was initially made by a TLS mod) is patently untrue. I am living proof. The remark was made pre-ITE, but it remains false now. There are some people who will land 1L SA jobs on the basis of grades & networking who clearly do not fall into the three categories above. Also, male IP people continue to have a better than usual--although still slim--shot at 1L biglaw.


How does experience factor in there? I understand that there are very few ways to get meaningful experience before law school (like being a secretary at a law firm wouldn't could, and likely the same for a paralegal). But what about something like banking/consulting for one of the top firms in that field, or practicing patent law before starting school. How would that affect your chances?

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wiseowl
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby wiseowl » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:29 pm

TTT-LS wrote:Yeah, the remark about 1L SAs only being URMs/female engineers/people with ridiculous resmumes (which was initially made by a TLS mod) is patently untrue. I am living proof. The remark was made pre-ITE, but it remains false now. There are some people who will land 1L SA jobs on the basis of grades & networking who clearly do not fall into the three categories above. Also, male IP people continue to have a better than usual--although still slim--shot at 1L biglaw.


"only" is too extreme, but there is little doubt that those groups get more and better opportunities. nothing wrong with that, but that is the situation.

I have received more than one ding letter during this process that said in not so many words "We can't take you, but if you're a minority please re-apply."

Renzo
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby Renzo » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:59 pm

wiseowl wrote:
TTT-LS wrote:Yeah, the remark about 1L SAs only being URMs/female engineers/people with ridiculous resmumes (which was initially made by a TLS mod) is patently untrue. I am living proof. The remark was made pre-ITE, but it remains false now. There are some people who will land 1L SA jobs on the basis of grades & networking who clearly do not fall into the three categories above. Also, male IP people continue to have a better than usual--although still slim--shot at 1L biglaw.


"only" is too extreme, but there is little doubt that those groups get more and better opportunities. nothing wrong with that, but that is the situation.

I have received more than one ding letter during this process that said in not so many words "We can't take you, but if you're a minority please re-apply."

You are both right. There are really three separate rationales for big firms hiring 1Ls: 1)snag someone with impeccable academics that will be in high demand next year 2)snag someone with useful IP credentials who will be in demand next year 3)diversity hiring initiatives. There is a fourth (hire the boss' or big clients' nephew), but it's pretty well tangential.

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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby Lawschoolman » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:33 am

Any thoughts on what percentage of 3Ls at T14s have landed post-3L associate jobs? Even ITE, it seems that the number is well over 50% (including deferrals). For those T14ers who wanted biglaw, but were for whatever reason shut out, I'm guessing their chances of getting in at some point in the future aren't completely shot provided they do something productive post-graduation...

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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby RVP11 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:24 am

Lawschoolman wrote:Any thoughts on what percentage of 3Ls at T14s have landed post-3L associate jobs? Even ITE, it seems that the number is well over 50% (including deferrals). For those T14ers who wanted biglaw, but were for whatever reason shut out, I'm guessing their chances of getting in at some point in the future aren't completely shot provided they do something productive post-graduation...


Only 99% shot?

The firms have no incentive to hire these people, you realize.

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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby ughOSU » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:09 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
McNabb wrote:For URMs I know that 1L firm jobs are very doable--even in this economy. I know an AA male who attends one of MBVP and is well below median who landed a top firm job in the Texas market, with no ties and straight from undergrad.
I know of an AA male at MVPBDNGC who got his 1L gig before grades came out. :evil:

you mad?

wannabealonghorn
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby wannabealonghorn » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:06 pm

Jus a quick question.
What is V20, V100, NLJ250.

Thx for filling in.

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MeTalkPrettyOneDay
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby MeTalkPrettyOneDay » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:12 pm

buddyblack wrote:
MF248 wrote:Top 5% at Princeton Law should do.


That's really hard to get though...
No way - it's pretty easy. Everyone knows 95% of Princeton Law's class is in the top 5%. I haven't seen the official stat - in fact no one on here ever has - but we all repeat it so much that it must be true. If I wasn't so lazy I could probably find a link...

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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:37 pm

ughOSU wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
McNabb wrote:For URMs I know that 1L firm jobs are very doable--even in this economy. I know an AA male who attends one of MBVP and is well below median who landed a top firm job in the Texas market, with no ties and straight from undergrad.
I know of an AA male at MVPBDNGC who got his 1L gig before grades came out. :evil:

you mad?

I sad.

ughOSU
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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby ughOSU » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:15 am

Kohinoor wrote:
ughOSU wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
McNabb wrote:For URMs I know that 1L firm jobs are very doable--even in this economy. I know an AA male who attends one of MBVP and is well below median who landed a top firm job in the Texas market, with no ties and straight from undergrad.
I know of an AA male at MVPBDNGC who got his 1L gig before grades came out. :evil:

you mad?

I sad.

I just found this, and I have to post it:
Image

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Re: Class rank needed to land $3,000 a week 1L job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:55 am

Not 3k/wk (2250/wk) but I got a SA (I'm a 1L at a lower T-20). Straight connections. My grades were barely top 50%. I know people T-10% that can't get anything. I am basically just a lucky SOB.




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