Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

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ConsideringLawSchool
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:00 pm

Renzo wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:We were crazy, but it honestly wasn't as bad as you would think. Describes my undergrad years as well--sleep always finished well behind work, extracurriculars, school, friends, and family in my list of priorities. Of course, there were nights when I'd sleep 10 hours in UG, but 2-4 hrs of sleep was much more common.


I'm with A'nold here. Anyone who claims to have consistently worked 100 hrs a week has probably never actually worked in a real job. It's not physically possible. Even potential Navy SEALs don't work that hard all the way through BUDS. I'm not saying that some jobs don't require spurts of 16-18 hour days, and those spurts might even go on for a few weeks, but you could never "average" that much work. You would literally, actually, physically die.


Everyone needs different amounts of sleep. The time period I'm talking about was about 4 months. Granted, those folks who tended to need more sleep went home right after work to sleep. It was only a handful of us who had the bad habit of going out most nights.

eth3n
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby eth3n » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:55 am

Isn't the biglaw fear about being pushed out after only a few years and having no real experience and nowhere to go?

So few associates make partner, I am sure its even worse now...

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A'nold
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby A'nold » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:09 pm

jcl2 wrote:
A'nold wrote:
Renzo wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:We were crazy, but it honestly wasn't as bad as you would think. Describes my undergrad years as well--sleep always finished well behind work, extracurriculars, school, friends, and family in my list of priorities. Of course, there were nights when I'd sleep 10 hours in UG, but 2-4 hrs of sleep was much more common.


I'm with A'nold here. Anyone who claims to have consistently worked 100 hrs a week has probably never actually worked in a real job. It's not physically possible. Even potential Navy SEALs don't work that hard all the way through BUDS. I'm not saying that some jobs don't require spurts of 16-18 hour days, and those spurts might even go on for a few weeks, but you could never "average" that much work. You would literally, actually, physically die.


+1.


I think you just seconded someone seconding your opinion. :lol: Not that I disagree.


+2 8)

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A'nold
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby A'nold » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:17 pm

ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
Renzo wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:We were crazy, but it honestly wasn't as bad as you would think. Describes my undergrad years as well--sleep always finished well behind work, extracurriculars, school, friends, and family in my list of priorities. Of course, there were nights when I'd sleep 10 hours in UG, but 2-4 hrs of sleep was much more common.


I'm with A'nold here. Anyone who claims to have consistently worked 100 hrs a week has probably never actually worked in a real job. It's not physically possible. Even potential Navy SEALs don't work that hard all the way through BUDS. I'm not saying that some jobs don't require spurts of 16-18 hour days, and those spurts might even go on for a few weeks, but you could never "average" that much work. You would literally, actually, physically die.


Everyone needs different amounts of sleep. The time period I'm talking about was about 4 months. Granted, those folks who tended to need more sleep went home right after work to sleep. It was only a handful of us who had the bad habit of going out most nights.



Look, we get it. You worked 100 + hours a week, went out for 4 hours every night, got drunk, were a great lover, took your dog to the park daily, spent time with your extended family, and managed to do 18 holes at the course each day while maintaining a 2 handicap all the while winning numerous employee of the month awards.

ConsideringLawSchool
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby ConsideringLawSchool » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:05 pm

A'nold wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
Renzo wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:We were crazy, but it honestly wasn't as bad as you would think. Describes my undergrad years as well--sleep always finished well behind work, extracurriculars, school, friends, and family in my list of priorities. Of course, there were nights when I'd sleep 10 hours in UG, but 2-4 hrs of sleep was much more common.


I'm with A'nold here. Anyone who claims to have consistently worked 100 hrs a week has probably never actually worked in a real job. It's not physically possible. Even potential Navy SEALs don't work that hard all the way through BUDS. I'm not saying that some jobs don't require spurts of 16-18 hour days, and those spurts might even go on for a few weeks, but you could never "average" that much work. You would literally, actually, physically die.


Everyone needs different amounts of sleep. The time period I'm talking about was about 4 months. Granted, those folks who tended to need more sleep went home right after work to sleep. It was only a handful of us who had the bad habit of going out most nights.



Look, we get it. You worked 100 + hours a week, went out for 4 hours every night, got drunk, were a great lover, took your dog to the park daily, spent time with your extended family, and managed to do 18 holes at the course each day while maintaining a 2 handicap all the while winning numerous employee of the month awards.


Employee of the month?? I was the lazy one relative to my co-workers!

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A'nold
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby A'nold » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:54 pm

A'nold wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
Renzo wrote:
ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
I'm with A'nold here. Anyone who claims to have consistently worked 100 hrs a week has probably never actually worked in a real job. It's not physically possible. Even potential Navy SEALs don't work that hard all the way through BUDS. I'm not saying that some jobs don't require spurts of 16-18 hour days, and those spurts might even go on for a few weeks, but you could never "average" that much work. You would literally, actually, physically die.


Everyone needs different amounts of sleep. The time period I'm talking about was about 4 months. Granted, those folks who tended to need more sleep went home right after work to sleep. It was only a handful of us who had the bad habit of going out most nights.



Look, we get it. You worked 100 + hours a week, went out for 4 hours every night, got drunk, were a great lover, took your dog to the park daily, spent time with your extended family, and managed to do 18 holes at the course each day while maintaining a 2 handicap all the while winning numerous employee of the month awards.


Employee of the month?? I was the lazy one relative to my co-workers!


Those workaholic bastards! 8)

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adameus
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby adameus » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:19 pm

jcl2 wrote:Check out this link: http://www.averyindex.com/shortest_hour_law_firms.php

People tend to overstate the hours lawyers work. Yes there will be weeks or even months of crazy 80-90 hr weeks at big firms and even in many government positions, but when you average things out it is not terrible. Aside from Cravath and Wachtell, at most big firms associates seem to work an average of between 50 and 60 hrs per week and bill 40-45, not bad given the pay and considering that lawyers seem to count their lunch/dinner breaks as part of those hours.



Holy shit, Cravath and Watchell, I know the pay is great and the work is interesting but it seems you are basically selling your soul to the devil.... Can you really have any quality of life working there?

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby T14_Scholly » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:25 pm

Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.

Anonymous User
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:26 pm

Just a heads up about working at the DAs office. The work is rewarding, arguably unlike biglaw. The hours are exactly the same. I work at a DAs office in a major city, (not as an attorney) and the new ADAs work 14+ hours a day during the week and 10+ over the weekend. Once they get out of magistrate (anywhere from 3 months to over a year) it calms down a little, except during major trials--which are frequent, and then they basically live here. So liveable hours are not to be found, at least not at this office. And of course you're doing this for $30,000-$60,000 a year.

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A'nold
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby A'nold » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:57 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.


Care to enlighten us?

Renzo
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby Renzo » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:37 pm

A'nold wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.


Care to enlighten us?

Don't feed the 0L's

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby T14_Scholly » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:46 pm

A'nold wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.


Care to enlighten us?


For example:

"With realistic billable ratios and no fraud, your BigLaw junior associates in New York are probably working ~ 3000."

Renzo
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby Renzo » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:53 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:
A'nold wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.


Care to enlighten us?


For example:

"With realistic billable ratios and no fraud, your BigLaw junior associates in New York are probably working ~ 3000."

You're a know-nothing clown. No one said that in this thread, so you're just shooting off your mouth. 0L's GTFO of the "students and graduates" forum!

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby T14_Scholly » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:41 pm

Renzo wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:
A'nold wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.


Care to enlighten us?


For example:

"With realistic billable ratios and no fraud, your BigLaw junior associates in New York are probably working ~ 3000."

You're a know-nothing clown. No one said that in this thread, so you're just shooting off your mouth. 0L's GTFO of the "students and graduates" forum!


You sure?

Renzo
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby Renzo » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:45 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:
You sure?

About which part? That you're a clown -yes. That you should get out-yes. That no one said 3000 hours is a good estimate, mostly, but I didn't go back all the way to the very first post to check.

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Series70
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby Series70 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just a heads up about working at the DAs office. The work is rewarding, arguably unlike biglaw. The hours are exactly the same. I work at a DAs office in a major city, (not as an attorney) and the new ADAs work 14+ hours a day during the week and 10+ over the weekend. Once they get out of magistrate (anywhere from 3 months to over a year) it calms down a little, except during major trials--which are frequent, and then they basically live here. So liveable hours are not to be found, at least not at this office. And of course you're doing this for $30,000-$60,000 a year.


Thanks a lot for the information. I've got my fingers crossed that you're not talking about NYC, where the starting salary for ADAs is up at the top of your range. Seriously, 14+ hours a day? In the office, or work at home as well? And another 10+ over the weekend? Assuming that's 5 hours each on Saturday and Sunday, we're still talking at least 80 hours a week, much more than the average in big law. I mean, my friend at a firm usually does 9-7, with a few hours on the weekend. Yikes.

It makes me wonder why anyone would even bother. Maybe I'll just join the NYPD: I think on average they earn around six figures after 6 years (at least that's what their recruiting posters say). They get overtime, great benefits and vacations, and probably have a much more exciting job. PLUS they get to carry guns on and off duty, and get 50-state wide concealed carry permits (along with ridiculous pensions) once they retire. Hmm. . . why do I want to be an ADA again?

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A'nold
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby A'nold » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:14 pm

Series70 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just a heads up about working at the DAs office. The work is rewarding, arguably unlike biglaw. The hours are exactly the same. I work at a DAs office in a major city, (not as an attorney) and the new ADAs work 14+ hours a day during the week and 10+ over the weekend. Once they get out of magistrate (anywhere from 3 months to over a year) it calms down a little, except during major trials--which are frequent, and then they basically live here. So liveable hours are not to be found, at least not at this office. And of course you're doing this for $30,000-$60,000 a year.


Thanks a lot for the information. I've got my fingers crossed that you're not talking about NYC, where the starting salary for ADAs is up at the top of your range. Seriously, 14+ hours a day? In the office, or work at home as well? And another 10+ over the weekend? Assuming that's 5 hours each on Saturday and Sunday, we're still talking at least 80 hours a week, much more than the average in big law. I mean, my friend at a firm usually does 9-7, with a few hours on the weekend. Yikes.

It makes me wonder why anyone would even bother. Maybe I'll just join the NYPD: I think on average they earn around six figures after 6 years (at least that's what their recruiting posters say). They get overtime, great benefits and vacations, and probably have a much more exciting job. PLUS they get to carry guns on and off duty, and get 50-state wide concealed carry permits (along with ridiculous pensions) once they retire. Hmm. . . why do I want to be an ADA again?


Yeah but don't ADA's get a lot of this stuff?

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Series70
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby Series70 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:23 pm

^ Well, I guess it depends on location. Definitely no overtime, since they're not union and are on salary (which, to be fair, does seem to increase significantly with experience, as with the NYPD). In NYC, benefits and vacation seem good, but I'm not sure about the guns. At least in her book Bronx D.A., Sarena Strauss explains how, much to everyone's disappointment, they were not allowed to carry either guns or badges, as DA Robert T. Johnson decided to do away with such perks. Does anyone know about Manhattan, Brooklyn, or Queens?

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby T14_Scholly » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:49 am

Series70 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just a heads up about working at the DAs office. The work is rewarding, arguably unlike biglaw. The hours are exactly the same. I work at a DAs office in a major city, (not as an attorney) and the new ADAs work 14+ hours a day during the week and 10+ over the weekend. Once they get out of magistrate (anywhere from 3 months to over a year) it calms down a little, except during major trials--which are frequent, and then they basically live here. So liveable hours are not to be found, at least not at this office. And of course you're doing this for $30,000-$60,000 a year.


Thanks a lot for the information. I've got my fingers crossed that you're not talking about NYC, where the starting salary for ADAs is up at the top of your range. Seriously, 14+ hours a day? In the office, or work at home as well? And another 10+ over the weekend? Assuming that's 5 hours each on Saturday and Sunday, we're still talking at least 80 hours a week, much more than the average in big law. I mean, my friend at a firm usually does 9-7, with a few hours on the weekend. Yikes.

It makes me wonder why anyone would even bother. Maybe I'll just join the NYPD: I think on average they earn around six figures after 6 years (at least that's what their recruiting posters say). They get overtime, great benefits and vacations, and probably have a much more exciting job. PLUS they get to carry guns on and off duty, and get 50-state wide concealed carry permits (along with ridiculous pensions) once they retire. Hmm. . . why do I want to be an ADA again?


You should probably reconsider becoming an ADA. According to recent surveys, ADAs across the nation put in on average 3,000 hours per year. You can do the math to figure out just how much work that is. In addition, due to the recession, states are facing budget crises and public prosecutor's offices are feeling the brunt of it. In many cases, ADAs' benefits are being slashed. Finally, in many cities the criminal underworld views ADAs as on par with the police, and as a result ADAs are often the target of violent crime.

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A'nold
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby A'nold » Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:42 pm

Me wantz 2 kerry gunz! :mrgreen:

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fenderjsm88
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby fenderjsm88 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:57 pm

Series70 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just a heads up about working at the DAs office. The work is rewarding, arguably unlike biglaw. The hours are exactly the same. I work at a DAs office in a major city, (not as an attorney) and the new ADAs work 14+ hours a day during the week and 10+ over the weekend. Once they get out of magistrate (anywhere from 3 months to over a year) it calms down a little, except during major trials--which are frequent, and then they basically live here. So liveable hours are not to be found, at least not at this office. And of course you're doing this for $30,000-$60,000 a year.


Thanks a lot for the information. I've got my fingers crossed that you're not talking about NYC, where the starting salary for ADAs is up at the top of your range. Seriously, 14+ hours a day? In the office, or work at home as well? And another 10+ over the weekend? Assuming that's 5 hours each on Saturday and Sunday, we're still talking at least 80 hours a week, much more than the average in big law. I mean, my friend at a firm usually does 9-7, with a few hours on the weekend. Yikes.

It makes me wonder why anyone would even bother. Maybe I'll just join the NYPD: I think on average they earn around six figures after 6 years (at least that's what their recruiting posters say). They get overtime, great benefits and vacations, and probably have a much more exciting job. PLUS they get to carry guns on and off duty, and get 50-state wide concealed carry permits (along with ridiculous pensions) once they retire. Hmm. . . why do I want to be an ADA again?


I'm sold. See you at the academy. Maybe we'll be buddy cops!

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fenderjsm88
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby fenderjsm88 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:18 pm

ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
Pretty much what our life was. We showed up at 9:00, worked until 1:00, went out until 4:00, then went home, slept, showered, and came back.


ConsideringLawSchool wrote:
Sauer Grapes wrote:Have you kicked the coke habit yet? Or was it speed that allowed you to do that?


haha, we were crazy, but loved it. I miss those days ;-(



You should get a Ryan Howard avatar.

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Series70
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby Series70 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:52 am

^ Hey, I mean, whatever works for you. Honestly, if you spend your free time watching TV, then you might as well stay at the office and at least get paid for it. Personally, when I go to bed at night, what I regret most is not having spent enough time with my wife. I imagine it'll be the same when I croak in 50 years or so. There's never enough time for that. Ma io sono romantico.

Renzo
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby Renzo » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:08 pm

Series70 wrote:^ Hey, I mean, whatever works for you. Honestly, if you spend your free time watching TV, then you might as well stay at the office and at least get paid for it. Personally, when I go to bed at night, what I regret most is not having spent enough time with my wife. I imagine it'll be the same when I croak in 50 years or so. There's never enough time for that. Ma io sono romantico.

I love my family, and I enjoy spending time with them, but there is only so much my wife and I have to talk about in any given day. After that, it's mostly staring at each other.

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A'nold
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Re: Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours?

Postby A'nold » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:15 pm

Renzo wrote:
Series70 wrote:^ Hey, I mean, whatever works for you. Honestly, if you spend your free time watching TV, then you might as well stay at the office and at least get paid for it. Personally, when I go to bed at night, what I regret most is not having spent enough time with my wife. I imagine it'll be the same when I croak in 50 years or so. There's never enough time for that. Ma io sono romantico.

I love my family, and I enjoy spending time with them, but there is only so much my wife and I have to talk about in any given day. After that, it's mostly staring at each other.


LOL!




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