why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:25 pm

At least one firm to which I spoke was very candid about why they hire 1Ls:

They are in a secondary market, and even though their pay is comparable, their location, prestige, etc couldn't compete with the Cravath's of the world.

Therefore, if they only hired 2Ls, they'd get the "secondary" talent.

However, they are confident that if students give them a chance, they stack up against even the best firms. They hire students during 1L, allow them to work for another firm 2L (even the elite ones), and see which they like more. Since they are very 1L friendly, they now have a shot at attracting and retaining the future 2L stars.

I don't know if the rationale is similar elsewhere.

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RVP11
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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby RVP11 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At least one firm to which I spoke was very candid about why they hire 1Ls:

They are in a secondary market, and even though their pay is comparable, their location, prestige, etc couldn't compete with the Cravath's of the world.

Therefore, if they only hired 2Ls, they'd get the "secondary" talent.

However, they are confident that if students give them a chance, they stack up against even the best firms. They hire students during 1L, allow them to work for another firm 2L (even the elite ones), and see which they like more. Since they are very 1L friendly, they now have a shot at attracting and retaining the future 2L stars.

I don't know if the rationale is similar elsewhere.


I think it WAS similar in most markets, but ITE I don't think nearly as many secondary market firms need to do any reaching out to get students from top schools.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At least one firm to which I spoke was very candid about why they hire 1Ls:

They are in a secondary market, and even though their pay is comparable, their location, prestige, etc couldn't compete with the Cravath's of the world.

Therefore, if they only hired 2Ls, they'd get the "secondary" talent.

However, they are confident that if students give them a chance, they stack up against even the best firms. They hire students during 1L, allow them to work for another firm 2L (even the elite ones), and see which they like more. Since they are very 1L friendly, they now have a shot at attracting and retaining the future 2L stars.

I don't know if the rationale is similar elsewhere.
This sounds right to me. I'm a T14 1L and my secondary market firm interviews felt like recruiting sessions. One firm even went out of its way to tell me that if I do well during 1L summer, they won't hold it against me if I do my 2L summer in a major market and afterwards decide I want to go back to them after graduation.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby RVP11 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At least one firm to which I spoke was very candid about why they hire 1Ls:

They are in a secondary market, and even though their pay is comparable, their location, prestige, etc couldn't compete with the Cravath's of the world.

Therefore, if they only hired 2Ls, they'd get the "secondary" talent.

However, they are confident that if students give them a chance, they stack up against even the best firms. They hire students during 1L, allow them to work for another firm 2L (even the elite ones), and see which they like more. Since they are very 1L friendly, they now have a shot at attracting and retaining the future 2L stars.

I don't know if the rationale is similar elsewhere.
This sounds right to me. I'm a T14 1L and my secondary market firm interviews felt like recruiting sessions. One firm even went out of its way to tell me that if I do well during 1L summer, they won't hold it against me if I do my 2L summer in a major market and afterwards decide I want to go back to them after graduation.


Can y'all PM me which markets you're talking about? This certainly hasn't been the case in my hometown.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:28 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This sounds right to me. I'm a T14 1L and my secondary market firm interviews felt like recruiting sessions. One firm even went out of its way to tell me that if I do well during 1L summer, they won't hold it against me if I do my 2L summer in a major market and afterwards decide I want to go back to them after graduation.
Can y'all PM me which markets you're talking about? This certainly hasn't been the case in my hometown.
I'd rather not PM. I'll just say that I haven't seen my market discussed on TLS and that it is smaller than Atlanta, Philly, Boston, SF and others considered secondary. Maybe it's tertiary.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This sounds right to me. I'm a T14 1L and my secondary market firm interviews felt like recruiting sessions. One firm even went out of its way to tell me that if I do well during 1L summer, they won't hold it against me if I do my 2L summer in a major market and afterwards decide I want to go back to them after graduation.
Can y'all PM me which markets you're talking about? This certainly hasn't been the case in my hometown.
I'd rather not PM. I'll just say that I haven't seen my market discussed on TLS and that it is smaller than Atlanta, Philly, Boston, SF and others considered secondary. Maybe it's tertiary.

Cincinnati? I had a similar experience to Anonymous User above in that market as a 1L SA.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:This sounds right to me. I'm a T14 1L and my secondary market firm interviews felt like recruiting sessions. One firm even went out of its way to tell me that if I do well during 1L summer, they won't hold it against me if I do my 2L summer in a major market and afterwards decide I want to go back to them after graduation.
Can y'all PM me which markets you're talking about? This certainly hasn't been the case in my hometown.
I'd rather not PM. I'll just say that I haven't seen my market discussed on TLS and that it is smaller than Atlanta, Philly, Boston, SF and others considered secondary. Maybe it's tertiary.
Cincinnati? I had a similar experience to Anonymous User above in that market as a 1L SA.
No. And if I wanted to specify, I would have.

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Veyron
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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Veyron » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:41 pm

What size markets are you guys who are swinging these hometown 1 ell gigs from?

edit: I saw the above. Not the exact market but perhaps you could tell me some similarly sized cities. Trying to decide if my home market is small enough to qualify.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:44 pm

Veyron wrote:What size markets are you guys who are swinging these hometown 1 ell gigs from?


I had a phone "interview" with a firm in a city of around 500,000 in a fairly small state.

The problem with landing jobs in these secondary markets is they often want to know what ties you have to the area, and if you have no ties, it's tough to overcome.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Veyron » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:47 pm

Was the city a suburb or an urban center (I'm from the outskirts of a larger city than that but which has suburbs which have a few hundred thousand people each in their own right)

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:50 pm

Veyron wrote:Was the city a suburb or an urban center (I'm from the outskirts of a larger city than that but which has suburbs which have a few hundred thousand people each in their own right)


It was the city. There's not much around it of any notable size.

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Veyron
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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Veyron » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:54 pm

Shit, thanks.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby RVP11 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:57 pm

I think this is a fair way to determine the size of your market:

Primary - NYC, DC, Chicago, Bay Area, LA

Large secondary (some might consider them to be primary) - Dallas, Houston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Boston

Small secondary (going to be more like true secondary markets - you'll need ties) - Miami, Denver, San Diego, Seattle, Minneapolis, Cleveland, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Portland, Austin, Columbus, Phoenix, Sacramento, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Baltimore, New Orleans, Tampa, Cincinnati, Birmingham, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Fort Lauderdale, San Antonio, Richmond, Orlando, Las Vegas, Detroit, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Salt Lake City

Tertiary (generally small cities with ~500k people) - Louisville, Columbia, Raleigh, Springfield, Irvine, Wilmington, Jacksonville, Hartford, Buffalo, Madison, Omaha, Albany, Memphis, Newark, Tulsa, Charleston, Jackson, Honolulu, Tallahassee, Albuquerque, Tucson, Providence, Little Rock, Harrisburg, Grand Rapids, Des Moines, Knoxville, Syracuse, Akron, Toledo, Dayton

Yeah, I was bored.

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Veyron
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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Veyron » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:32 pm

I agree with this except that I would probably put Boston and the Bay Area in the same tier (lg secondary).

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby RVP11 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Veyron wrote:I agree with this except that I would probably put Boston and the Bay Area in the same tier (lg secondary).


The Bay Area has ~20,000 attorneys, same as Los Angeles and not far below Chicago. Boston only has 12,000, placing it with Houston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Dallas (all have between 10,000 and 15,000).

I do realize the number of big firms in each city doesn't totally line up with the sheer number of attorneys, but it's a decent proxy.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Veyron » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:32 pm

Yes, but the Bay Area and Boston have about the same number of V100, right?

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby RVP11 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:41 pm

Veyron wrote:Yes, but the Bay Area and Boston have about the same number of V100, right?


Number of V100 firms or V100 attorneys? Boston might have as many V100 firms, but I'd be surprised if they have as many attorneys.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Veyron » Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:46 pm

Good point.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby chadwick218 » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:20 pm

After having had a couple of intereviews in what I would describe as a regional market, I am left with the impression that one would much better off having graduated in the top 10% at one of the more local, albeit significantly lower ranked, T2/T3 schools than finishing in the top 50% or top 33% at a T14. The key also seemed to be selling why I wasn't a flight risk!

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Veyron
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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Veyron » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:25 pm

chadwick218 wrote:key also seemed to be selling why I wasn't a flight risk!


How strong were your local ties?

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby chadwick218 » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:35 pm

Veyron wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:key also seemed to be selling why I wasn't a flight risk!


How strong were your local ties?


i grew up there + family still resides there ... this was nevertheless questioned given that fact that I have worked professionally in a couple of major US cities as well as internationally.

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NosferatuDracon
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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby NosferatuDracon » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:57 pm

reasonable_man wrote: Worry far less about 'moving up' right away and concern yourself with having somewhere to go after law school.


Reasonableman

That is entirely too rational of a comment for you to make.

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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:13 pm

NosferatuDracon wrote:
reasonable_man wrote: Worry far less about 'moving up' right away and concern yourself with having somewhere to go after law school.


Reasonableman

That is entirely too rational of a comment for you to make.



Why don't you save your insults for someone that gives a shit?

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NosferatuDracon
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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby NosferatuDracon » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:17 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
NosferatuDracon wrote:
reasonable_man wrote: Worry far less about 'moving up' right away and concern yourself with having somewhere to go after law school.


Reasonableman

That is entirely too rational of a comment for you to make.



Why don't you save your insults for someone that gives a shit?


My attempt at sarcasim was clearly lost. Your reputation on these boards is very well reknowned. I appreciate your levelheaded-ness in an environment that can at times lack perspective.

My jeer was more so in the direction of OP for questioning you.

But again...this was lost so I will drop it now. Have a good night!

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reasonable_man
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Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:21 pm

NosferatuDracon wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:
NosferatuDracon wrote:
reasonable_man wrote: Worry far less about 'moving up' right away and concern yourself with having somewhere to go after law school.


Reasonableman

That is entirely too rational of a comment for you to make.



Why don't you save your insults for someone that gives a shit?


My attempt at sarcasim was clearly lost. Your reputation on these boards is very well reknowned. I appreciate your levelheaded-ness in an environment that can at times lack perspective.

My jeer was more so in the direction of OP for questioning you.

But again...this was lost so I will drop it now. Have a good night!


My mistake. I'm a dick.




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