why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
ruski
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:45 am

why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby ruski » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:36 pm

i dont really understand why a small to medium sized firm would want to waste its resources on a star 1L who will no doubt not be returning and will want to move up to a top vault firm next summer? i dont even understand why a V50 firm would want to hire a 1L as that 1L will no doubt want to leverage that experience next summer to get a V10 offer. it is obvious to everyone that the applicant has no intention of establishing a long term career there. am i missing something here?

Nike6075
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:02 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Nike6075 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:49 pm

yes

User avatar
crazycanuck
Posts: 3043
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:04 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby crazycanuck » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:22 pm

Their daddy is a partner.

User avatar
Jasper12
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:28 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Jasper12 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:31 pm

Are you retarded? You do realize that these so-designated "bigger more prestigious firms" are also hiring 1Ls for their summer clerkships and therefore your logic has a serious flaw. What is happening to all of the clerks for the V10 firms? Are they just disappearing, creating a void that V50 clerks can magically obtain?

User avatar
BeastCoastHype
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby BeastCoastHype » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:40 pm

To be honest I don't know why ANY firms are interested in 1Ls. I seriously feel like I know almost nothing about the law at this point, and certainly nothing useful. What are you going to do sitting in a meeting on a big merger gone awry? Ask if there was consideration?

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Renzo » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:50 pm

Mid-size and small firms often pay less, and expect more paralegal-type work out of 1L's, so it's not such a bad deal. In boom times, the big firms did it to attract talent, and as a form of advertising (giving 1L's two years to talk about how much they liked ____ firm). Right now, no big firms are hiring more than a token number of 1L's.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273385
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:53 pm

Reasons firms want to hire a 1L:
1) Free subscriptions to Westlaw and LexisNexis
2) Free subscriptions to Westlaw and LexisNexis
&
3)Free subscriptions to Westlaw and LexisNexis

Obviously this is directed to the OP's original post when he ponders the motivation for medium sized firms to hire 1Ls the may not be able to retain for future employment.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273385
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:59 pm

In small markets, the few large firms compete with each other for the very few T14 students who can prove a definite intent to return after graduation. They can snag such students early with 1L SA offers, especially by giving offers before grades come out when students don't know what other options they might have. This is why I have two firm interviews this week while lots of people with similar or better qualifications don't have any. Easy to be a big fish in a small pond 8)

User avatar
BeastCoastHype
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby BeastCoastHype » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Reasons firms want to hire a 1L:
1) Free subscriptions to Westlaw and LexisNexis
2) Free subscriptions to Westlaw and LexisNexis
&
3)Free subscriptions to Westlaw and LexisNexis

Obviously this is directed to the OP's original post when he ponders the motivation for medium sized firms to hire 1Ls the may not be able to retain for future employment.


Don't firms get hammered really hard for violating their Lexis/Westlaw contracts when they do that kind of thing? We had a huge talk on it in my legal research class - they said that it could ruin a student's character and fitness qualification for the bar and also screw the firm in their relationship with the research provider. You may have three wrong answers here.

ruski
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:45 am

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby ruski » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:34 pm

from nalp it seems that these small firms still pay 2k+/week to interns. it just doesn't seem to be worth it to hire 1Ls. or are 1Ls given a different salary?

User avatar
chadwick218
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby chadwick218 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:42 pm

As a 1L searching for a summer job, I have had very little success in any large markets, but a surprising amount of success in the regional market where I grew up (the firms are still within the NALP250). In this market and at a couple of the firms where I have interviewed, most full-time associates interned after both their 1L and 2L years. The only problem is that if I receive an offer and accept, I am also promising that I will return after my 2L year and work for a minimum of 6-weeks.

User avatar
CE2JD
Posts: 929
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:33 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby CE2JD » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:43 pm

People with patent prosecution experience usually get pummeled with 1L summer job offers.

Some people have useful skills for law firms apart from what they teach you in law school (DO THEY TEACH YOU USEFUL SKILLS IN LAW SCHOOL?).

User avatar
chadwick218
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby chadwick218 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:44 pm

ruski wrote:from nalp it seems that these small firms still pay 2k+/week to interns. it just doesn't seem to be worth it to hire 1Ls. or are 1Ls given a different salary?


The firms that I am looking at pay $2,000 / week over 10-weeks and are currently starting full-time associates at $120,000.

User avatar
RVP11
Posts: 2774
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby RVP11 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:09 pm

Chadwick, is your home market in the South?

Some smaller markets have a tradition of hiring associates for both 1L and 2L. Some, like mine, don't. :cry:

User avatar
underdawg
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:15 am

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby underdawg » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:44 pm

ruski wrote:i dont really understand why a small to medium sized firm would want to waste its resources on a star 1L who will no doubt not be returning and will want to move up to a top vault firm next summer? i dont even understand why a V50 firm would want to hire a 1L as that 1L will no doubt want to leverage that experience next summer to get a V10 offer. it is obvious to everyone that the applicant has no intention of establishing a long term career there. am i missing something here?

iuno, some people stay at firms if they like em

gglr24
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:47 am

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby gglr24 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:48 pm

Hiring an 'overqualified' 1L also gives them a shot at that 1L that they would not otherwise have in the next year. The 1L may establish relationships at the secondary market firm and not wish to venture into the v50.

User avatar
reasonable_man
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby reasonable_man » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:51 pm

ruski wrote:i dont really understand why a small to medium sized firm would want to waste its resources on a star 1L who will no doubt not be returning and will want to move up to a top vault firm next summer? i dont even understand why a V50 firm would want to hire a 1L as that 1L will no doubt want to leverage that experience next summer to get a V10 offer. it is obvious to everyone that the applicant has no intention of establishing a long term career there. am i missing something here?


LOL at you for knowing nothing and then posting/pretending to have something remotely intelligent to say.

User avatar
TTT-LS
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby TTT-LS » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:30 pm

.
Last edited by TTT-LS on Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

legends159
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:12 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby legends159 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:56 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:Some smaller markets have a tradition of hiring associates for both 1L and 2L. Some, like mine, don't. :cry:


Be glad you're not from NYC and only have ties there and SF.

FML in finding a firm job this summer. I've just been ignored at this point, hopefully when grades come out I'll hear a peep.

User avatar
superserial
Posts: 376
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:57 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby superserial » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:08 pm

sexual favors.

User avatar
chadwick218
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby chadwick218 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:33 am

TTT-LS wrote:
chadwick218 wrote: The only problem is that if I receive an offer and accept, I am also promising that I will return after my 2L year and work for a minimum of 6-weeks.

O RLY? I'm very surprised to hear that they'd attach that sort of condition. Of course, as long as they'll take the last 6 weeks of summer, you'll still be free to summer with virtually any other firm hiring at OCI (since most biglaw SA programs are now 6-10 weeks).

As for OP's question, the firm I worked for my 1L summer hired 1Ls for marketing reasons. They wanted and expected us to go back to our schools to talk up the firm to other students.


I was a bit suprised as well, but hopefully I will find out in the next couple of weeks whether such a condition is explicit or just implied ... my thought is that it is simply implied and that you by no means bound to return (just sorta expected).

Anonymous User
Posts: 273385
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:01 am

You might not know anything now, but you aren't going to know much more after 2L (or after 3L for that matter).

Firms hire 1Ls from top schools because they want to have a chance at them and they know that as a 2L that student is not as likely to "risk" their summer with a mid-sized firm. Some students do fall in love with their first firm, or they hate their 2L firm, (or don't get an offer) so they do end up at the 1L firm.

There isn't much difference in ability/productivity between first and second years, the reasons firms don't hire as many first years are that (1) they are less likely to retain them, and (2) they have less of a measure in grades/credentials (which is why those who go to top schools usually get these positions--it is all the employers have to go on).

User avatar
chadwick218
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby chadwick218 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:You might not know anything now, but you aren't going to know much more after 2L (or after 3L for that matter).

Firms hire 1Ls from top schools because they want to have a chance at them and they know that as a 2L that student is not as likely to "risk" their summer with a mid-sized firm. Some students do fall in love with their first firm, or they hate their 2L firm, (or don't get an offer) so they do end up at the 1L firm.

There isn't much difference in ability/productivity between first and second years, the reasons firms don't hire as many first years are that (1) they are less likely to retain them, and (2) they have less of a measure in grades/credentials (which is why those who go to top schools usually get these positions--it is all the employers have to go on).


Agreed. I especially found this to be the case while researching / applying to mid-market / mid-sized firms. Also, as stated above, a somewhat suprising number of these firms that I have looked into provide that it is expected that you will return for a minimum of 6 weeks following your 2L summer. Good post ... why anonymous?

User avatar
rw2264
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:59 am

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby rw2264 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:25 am

ruski wrote:i dont really understand why a small to medium sized firm would want to waste its resources on a star 1L who will no doubt not be returning and will want to move up to a top vault firm next summer? i dont even understand why a V50 firm would want to hire a 1L as that 1L will no doubt want to leverage that experience next summer to get a V10 offer. it is obvious to everyone that the applicant has no intention of establishing a long term career there. am i missing something here?



they need someone to make copies.

User avatar
reasonable_man
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: why would a firm want to hire a 1L??

Postby reasonable_man » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:31 am

i've been at my firm since my first summer of law school (now a 2nd year associate). If you're lucky enough to get in anywhere ITE, take the job and hold on for dear life. Worry far less about 'moving up' right away and concern yourself with having somewhere to go after law school.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.