2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

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ihatelaw
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby ihatelaw » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:49 pm

Sine I got to NYU, they have been pushing clerking almost as much as public interest. Their PI meetings frequently involve former COA clerks, etc. They may be gaming the system by reporting more carefully but I also know that they are making a very obvious effort to get us to start taking advantage of clerkship opportunities.

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chadwick218
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby chadwick218 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:35 pm

ihatelaw wrote:Sine I got to NYU, they have been pushing clerking almost as much as public interest. Their PI meetings frequently involve former COA clerks, etc. They may be gaming the system by reporting more carefully but I also know that they are making a very obvious effort to get us to start taking advantage of clerkship opportunities.


I would say that the same is true at NU. Career services has certainly been trying to plant the "clerkship seed" very early on by encouraging 1L's to altogether forget about 1L biglaw summer programs and focus instead on landing a judicial externship as it will be beneficial come time to apply for a clerkship! We have also held a number of lunch sessions pushing clerkships!

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thesealocust
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby thesealocust » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:08 pm

Holy crap kids, this data is clearly and on its face MASSIVELY incomplete, with a HUGE selection bias, and people are trying to read the tea leaves? There has to come a point where you just back away slowly from clearly erroneous data, rather than trying to divine meaning from the fragments available.

These data mean that not everyone who obtained a CoA clerkship is on that list. That's it - period.

twistedwrister
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby twistedwrister » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:35 pm

thesealocust wrote:Holy crap kids, this data is clearly and on its face MASSIVELY incomplete, with a HUGE selection bias, and people are trying to read the tea leaves? There has to come a point where you just back away slowly from clearly erroneous data, rather than trying to divine meaning from the fragments available.

These data mean that not everyone who obtained a CoA clerkship is on that list. That's it - period.


I agree that the data is incomplete. As mentioned by another poster, only about half the data appears to be there. However, the data is not "clearly erroneous," and there may or may not be a "HUGE selection bias."

I guess the data means more to me than it does to you. For example, it tells me that Yale has at least 28 COA clerks for 2010-11, and UVA has at least 8. Of course, there could be more.

Regarding divining meaning from fragments of information, that is essentially what law students (and lawyers, I assume) do -- try to figure out how to put a logical story together based on incomplete information.

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thesealocust
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby thesealocust » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:55 pm

twistedwrister wrote:Regarding divining meaning from fragments of information, that is essentially what law students (and lawyers, I assume) do -- try to figure out how to put a logical story together based on incomplete information.


:roll:

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BradyToMoss
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby BradyToMoss » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:12 pm

thesealocust wrote:
twistedwrister wrote:Regarding divining meaning from fragments of information, that is essentially what law students (and lawyers, I assume) do -- try to figure out how to put a logical story together based on incomplete information.


:roll:


Roll your eyes all you want, your statements were more egregious and ridiculous than his.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:14 pm

thesealocust wrote:
twistedwrister wrote:Regarding divining meaning from fragments of information, that is essentially what law students (and lawyers, I assume) do -- try to figure out how to put a logical story together based on incomplete information.


:roll:


You mean what John Grisham told me about being a lawyer isn't true?

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TTT-LS
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby TTT-LS » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:07 am

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Last edited by TTT-LS on Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Neverknowsbest
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby Neverknowsbest » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:40 am

...

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dresden doll
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby dresden doll » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:48 am

chadwick218 wrote:
ihatelaw wrote:Sine I got to NYU, they have been pushing clerking almost as much as public interest. Their PI meetings frequently involve former COA clerks, etc. They may be gaming the system by reporting more carefully but I also know that they are making a very obvious effort to get us to start taking advantage of clerkship opportunities.


I would say that the same is true at NU. Career services has certainly been trying to plant the "clerkship seed" very early on by encouraging 1L's to altogether forget about 1L biglaw summer programs and focus instead on landing a judicial externship as it will be beneficial come time to apply for a clerkship! We have also held a number of lunch sessions pushing clerkships!


Same at U of C. I would venture to say, however, that this newly found enthusiasm mostly stems from the fact that judicial internships are easiest to come by (certainly, they are far easier to come by than BigLaw). There are lots of judges out there, and chances are, someone will take an aspiring 1L - particularly from a good school - on. CSO wants to ensure we all get jobs, i.e. get off their backs, and encouraging the judicial internship race is, relatively speaking, the easiest way of accomplishing as much, particularly since we're pretty much obliged to accept if a judge does offer us a position.

Trying to get us placed with firms or good PI would be far harder. They're just encouraging us to take the easiest route for our 1L summer.

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thesealocust
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby thesealocust » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:51 am

dresden doll wrote:Trying to get us placed with firms or good PI would be far harder. They're just encouraging us to take the easiest route for our 1L summer.


That makes a lot of sense. I've heard about schools leaning on profs to make sure they take on 1Ls as well, since there's likely to be more people 'falling through the cracks' than in a good year.

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dresden doll
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby dresden doll » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:53 am

thesealocust wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Trying to get us placed with firms or good PI would be far harder. They're just encouraging us to take the easiest route for our 1L summer.


That makes a lot of sense. I've heard about schools leaning on profs to make sure they take on 1Ls as well, since there's likely to be more people 'falling through the cracks' than in a good year.


Exactly. I've already heard mounds about awesomeness that is an RA summer position as well.

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thesealocust
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby thesealocust » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:57 am

dresden doll wrote:Exactly. I've already heard mounds about awesomeness that is an RA summer position as well.


We had a speaker who stressed that 'B' students often make better RAs than 'A' students. It was bizarre, but probably not made with Machiavellian intentions even if it kind of came across that way...

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RVP11
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby RVP11 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:11 am

TBF, that was Mitchell, who's probably not representative of professors at large.

But I think he had a point. The 3.0 kid may be more likely to work hard for you; he needs the strong recommendation, and it's a lot less likely that he will think the sun shines out his ass.

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steve_nash
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby steve_nash » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:09 pm

dresden doll wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Trying to get us placed with firms or good PI would be far harder. They're just encouraging us to take the easiest route for our 1L summer.


That makes a lot of sense. I've heard about schools leaning on profs to make sure they take on 1Ls as well, since there's likely to be more people 'falling through the cracks' than in a good year.


Exactly. I've already heard mounds about awesomeness that is an RA summer position as well.


I split my summer between a judge and a professor. The RA job was surprisingly stressful...I wouldn't go to it looking for an "easy" job. But the professor was one of the most intelligent human beings I've met, and I learned a lot....not the most fun summer, though. Definitely pulled an all-nighter for the prof.

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dresden doll
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Re: 2010-11 COA Clerkship Numbers By School

Postby dresden doll » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:13 pm

steve_nash wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Trying to get us placed with firms or good PI would be far harder. They're just encouraging us to take the easiest route for our 1L summer.


That makes a lot of sense. I've heard about schools leaning on profs to make sure they take on 1Ls as well, since there's likely to be more people 'falling through the cracks' than in a good year.


Exactly. I've already heard mounds about awesomeness that is an RA summer position as well.


I split my summer between a judge and a professor. The RA job was surprisingly stressful...I wouldn't go to it looking for an "easy" job. But the professor was one of the most intelligent human beings I've met, and I learned a lot....not the most fun summer, though. Definitely pulled an all-nighter for the prof.


Oh, I don't expect any summer job to be 'easy.' I just think RA/judicial internships are easiest to come by out of all potential options (i.e. firm, PI, clerkship).




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