Timing of judicial internship apps

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Snooker
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Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby Snooker » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:25 pm

I've gotten two contradictory sets of opinions about sending judicial letters. One says send them soon as possible, even before christmas, and you'll beat the rush. The second says send them right after christmas so you don't get lost in the holiday rush. Both positions have something fairly ominous to say. I can get my letters sent out Monday morning to the judges. Which position is correct for judicial internships?

Renzo
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby Renzo » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:31 pm

Personally, I don't think it matters much at all. I don't think there's a way to beat the rush. You're going in a pile no matter what, so send it when you're ready.

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ggocat
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby ggocat » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:47 pm

I don't think it matters, but sooner is generally better than later. Some judges have certainly already hired.

Anonymous User
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:05 pm

Sent my applications out December 1st, had 2 interviews set up within a week and a half.

My first interview turned into an offer and I accepted it.

I'm sure not all judges are moving that quickly, but since some clearly are I'd say to you (and anyone else out there) it would be prudent to haul ass and send your applications out.

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ggocat
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby ggocat » Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sent my applications out December 1st, had 2 interviews set up within a week and a half.

My first interview turned into an offer and I accepted it.

I'm sure not all judges are moving that quickly, but since some clearly are I'd say to you (and anyone else out there) it would be prudent to haul ass and send your applications out.

I did the same thing during 1L and had offers before X-mas. But when I was scheduling interviews, none of them scheduled between X-mas an New Year's (I had to cancel some interviews scheduled for after New Year's). So I get the feeling that whether OP applies Monday or a week from Monday, it probably won't matter. But I agree: earlier rather than later is generally better.

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thedogship
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby thedogship » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:00 pm

betasteve wrote:What about this vs. reserving the fleeting chance of a summer clerkship? I mean - policy is if a Judge offers, you accept, right? Did you all bank on no offers (something I rationally should be doing), or what?


I am confused about what you are asking. Please re-explain.

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pany1985
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby pany1985 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:00 pm

I already accepted an externship with a judge this summer. Applications had to be in on December 1st, I had an interview the next week, and got the offer at the end of the interview. I was really surprised how quickly it happened.

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underachiever
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby underachiever » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:24 pm

Don't you need grades first?...if not im going to be pissed

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ggocat
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby ggocat » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:03 pm

underachiever wrote:Don't you need grades first?...if not im going to be pissed

You don't need them for many judges, no.

nylaw23
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby nylaw23 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:37 am

Send them now, then follow up with your grades if you do not hear from them.

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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:15 am

underachiever wrote:Don't you need grades first?...if not im going to be pissed


No, you do not need grades first.

Some firms and some judges will not do anything until they get grades. Some will do all hiring before anybody has gotten grades. Some fall in the middle. There's nothing consistent about 1L hiring except the NALP rules, which are really more NALP guidelines / best practices.

I'm the anon above who got an internship this summer, so that makes two of us already on TLS. It definitely makes sense to get your applications in ASAP - then you can follow up with grades as soon as they come in if you haven't heard back, and if you're lucky you may hear back and get it taken care of sooner.

Remember: Every year, X% of 1Ls get summer associateships. This year, X is much, much, much smaller than it used to be. All of those people will instead be applying to judges, PI jobs, and professors. Remember - many of them would have gotten SA gigs because of their great grades / backgrounds / connections, all three of which they will still capable of leveraging.

If you put off applications during finals, you really want to do everything in your power at this point to get them in.

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JPeavy44
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby JPeavy44 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:32 pm

I'm a 1L at a T2. Career services says to focus apps at the superior court level broken up by county. Is it worth sending out apps at higher levels and which ones would be worth it?

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ggocat
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby ggocat » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:42 pm

JPeavy44 wrote:Is it worth sending out apps at higher levels and which ones would be worth it?

Yes; state appellate courts and U.S. district courts. Probably not U.S. courts of appeals unless you have top grades.

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thesealocust
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby thesealocust » Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:09 pm

ggocat wrote:
JPeavy44 wrote:Is it worth sending out apps at higher levels and which ones would be worth it?

Yes; state appellate courts and U.S. district courts. Probably not U.S. courts of appeals unless you have top grades.


At least at our school, we were told that CoA judges often don't even hire summer interns, rather than just being an extra level of competitive. Who knows, though.

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ggocat
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby ggocat » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:32 pm

thesealocust wrote:At least at our school, we were told that CoA judges often don't even hire summer interns, rather than just being an extra level of competitive. Who knows, though.

That's true, but some do.

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cantaboot
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby cantaboot » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:35 pm

do all CoA judges require top grades? no.

I know 4 people interning at 1st, 2nd and 9th circuits last summer. 2 had top grades. 2 (including myself) did not.

I do have extensive international experiences (lived in four countries) and speak another language, which the judge found (sort of) impressive.

district court internships are by no means inferior.... take what you have and be thankful... don't feel frustrated if you got rejected at some places. the hiring seems pretty arbitrary. don't take rejections personally.

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ggocat
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby ggocat » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:10 am

cantaboot wrote:I know 4 people interning at 1st, 2nd and 9th circuits last summer. 2 had top grades. 2 (including myself) did not.

Did someone (e.g., prof or friend) make a phone call to those judges? The people I knew who got these either had top grades, personal connection, or both.

biglaw930
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby biglaw930 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am

I have a former employer on my resume that makes it look really impressive, however, I'd rather if they didn't call this place to inquire about me...what are the chances that they call the places listed on my work history as opposed to just calling my references?

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thesealocust
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby thesealocust » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:07 am

biglaw930 wrote:I have a former employer on my resume that makes it look really impressive, however, I'd rather if they didn't call this place to inquire about me...what are the chances that they call the places listed on my work history as opposed to just calling my references?


Weird situation, but my impression is that the odds of any of your references getting a phone call is pretty close to zero for 1L hiring.

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napolnic
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby napolnic » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:40 am

ggocat wrote:
thesealocust wrote:At least at our school, we were told that CoA judges often don't even hire summer interns, rather than just being an extra level of competitive. Who knows, though.

That's true, but some do.


Most CoAs work on a cycle and don't even meet during the summer. Your work would be a lot less hands on since you would have nothing to work on. Hence the not having CoA summer interns.

DCLabor25
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby DCLabor25 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:57 am

napolnic wrote:
ggocat wrote:
thesealocust wrote:At least at our school, we were told that CoA judges often don't even hire summer interns, rather than just being an extra level of competitive. Who knows, though.

That's true, but some do.


Most CoAs work on a cycle and don't even meet during the summer. Your work would be a lot less hands on since you would have nothing to work on. Hence the not having CoA summer interns.


I am not sure which COA your talking about, but I worked for a COA Judge last summer and we had a sitting right in the middle of summer. If I remember correctly, I believe there were other sittings for other judges throughout the summer and everyone (meaning the court as a whole) was generally busy -- the COA did not take the summer off.

As for applying, I did not apply until after my grades were in. I was shooting for the stars and my career services office told me that grades would matter. Despite not sending my stuff in on December 1st, I still landed several interviews with District Court judges and the COA Judge that eventually hired me.

Personally, I feel like writing nice, personalized letters is a very time-consuming process and career services said that my time in early December would be better off focusing on finals and getting good grades. The 1L grades are so critical and you don't need extra distractions. They advised me that if I got good grades, a judicial internship would probably follow. And their advice pretty much worked out. Just my two cents....

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ggocat
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby ggocat » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:16 pm

DCLabor25 wrote:
napolnic wrote:
ggocat wrote:
thesealocust wrote:At least at our school, we were told that CoA judges often don't even hire summer interns, rather than just being an extra level of competitive. Who knows, though.

That's true, but some do.


Most CoAs work on a cycle and don't even meet during the summer. Your work would be a lot less hands on since you would have nothing to work on. Hence the not having CoA summer interns.


I am not sure which COA your talking about, but I worked for a COA Judge last summer and we had a sitting right in the middle of summer. If I remember correctly, I believe there were other sittings for other judges throughout the summer and everyone (meaning the court as a whole) was generally busy -- the COA did not take the summer off.

+1. I've also interned for a USCOA judge. There wasn't a sitting when I was interning, but there is always work to be done. A judge and his/her clerks don't just sit around twiddling their thumbs between sittings.

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cantaboot
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby cantaboot » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:49 pm

I obviously do not have any connections... :lol: but my background is sort of special. I dont know about the guy who interned at the 9th circuit.... whether he got connections or not.

As for the 2 top people I mentioned - they are the law review types. They also lived very close to the courthouses.

I think judges also care about what you did in college and/ or grad school. If you majored in hotel management at an obscure college then your chance of getting an judicial internship is close to zero. At one point I thought just anyone could get an internship, if not federal then a state trial judge. I was wrong.

Summer work: yes we had sittings in mid-June and early July.

I was not close to the judge but she would not have helped me get a long term position anyway. The law clerks were all impressive people. I have kept in touch with 2 of them. I also managed to produce an interesting writing sample. I regret not staying with them the entire summer.

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thedogship
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby thedogship » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:35 am

The 2nd Circuit sits in the summer and at least 5 of the judges on that circuit take interns, but 2 or 3 interns at the most. I interned for two of them. I admittedly don't know the intern hiring practices of new circuit judges Chin and Lynch, though. I know that Lynch only hires from t6 schools for his clerks (and really just HYSColumbia), so it is possible that he follows that same practice for interns. When I was there, there were a lot of Yale interns, but also a Fordham, a Georgetown, and a few other schools. I believe when I applied the ones taking interns were Sack, Sotomayor (obviously not there anymore), Livingston, and Straub, and one or two more, though I can't remember them now. I would definitely call each judge's chambers and ask if they are taking interns and what their submission preference is (email vs. snail mail).

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cantaboot
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Re: Timing of judicial internship apps

Postby cantaboot » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:02 pm

hey, puppyship,
we might have sat in the same courtroom in late june... 8)

my judge took 2 interns. she used to take only 1. I was the second one she hired last summer. I felt both lucky and inadequate....




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