Detroit Law?

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shaville
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Detroit Law?

Postby shaville » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:56 pm

I'm going to start school at UofM next year - does anyone know what the detroit legal market is like? Has it gone kaput? Are there still some prospects for t10 grads?

holborn
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby holborn » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:01 pm

You can't seriously want to live in detroit. im from michigan, ive been there, and there is no way you want to live there.
youre going to michigan. don't fail and go get a job in chicago or new york.

shaville
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby shaville » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:07 pm

I haven't been there it is true- is it really so bad? Are there biglaw prospects elsewhere in Michigan?

holborn
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby holborn » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:12 pm

shaville wrote:I haven't been there it is true- is it really so bad? Are there biglaw prospects elsewhere in Michigan?


yes, it really is that bad. new figures for unemployment are about 50% for detriot. The city is turning around, but very very slowly. I actually just get sad when I go down there. The entire place is depressing. Of course, there are nice areas around detroit (aka the suburbs) so its not like you would have to live in the city.

And I don't know what the legal market is like, but im going to have to say it sucks like everything else in that city. The economy in michigan is a downward spiral and theres no saying you wont get laid off like everyone else even if you do land a job.

And no to biglaw. There are plenty of mid-size firms and small private practices though.
Luckily a Michigan degree means you in no way have to stay in michigan! Pick a different market. any other market.

Anonymous User
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:58 pm

There are large regional law firms in Detroit. Honigman, Bodman, Miller Canfield, Dykema, ClarkHill, Butzel, etc. Foley and Pepper also have satellite offices there. The economy has taken a huge hit and even in a very good year these firms do not hire very many students. When the economy slows down, hiring at these places slows way way down if they decide to hire at all. There are some mid-size firms in Lansing and Grand Rapids but they probably aren't doing to hot either. And again, class sizes at these firms will be very small. Most of the big firms in Michigan prefer to hire top of the class at Wayne or MSU and will only take a sprinkling of UM grads who are committed to staying in the state.

Anonymous User
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:There are large regional law firms in Detroit. Honigman, Bodman, Miller Canfield, Dykema, ClarkHill, Butzel, etc. Foley and Pepper also have satellite offices there. The economy has taken a huge hit and even in a very good year these firms do not hire very many students. When the economy slows down, hiring at these places slows way way down if they decide to hire at all. There are some mid-size firms in Lansing and Grand Rapids but they probably aren't doing to hot either. And again, class sizes at these firms will be very small. Most of the big firms in Michigan prefer to hire top of the class at Wayne or MSU and will only take a sprinkling of UM grads who are committed to staying in the state.


OK this is blatantly wrong. They take as many UM grads with ties to the state that they can and the shit that is left over goes to MSU and Wayne (probably have to be at least top 5% at either of those schools to stand a chance). Keep in mind that 10% of the school that they take may not seem like much since it only like 35-40 students, but when there are a total of something like 80 summer associateships open in the state at larger firms, that puts a pretty big dent in MSU and Wayne's OCI. OP- however, if you are not from Michigan, why on earth would you want to remain in Michigan? Pretty much every large national law firm, and many mid to small firms in the country goes to Michigan OCI (see NALP).

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DavidYurman85
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby DavidYurman85 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:55 pm

I'm from the metro Detroit area and it is absolutely that bad (for employment).

Anonymous User
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:56 am

I currently work at one of the previously listed law firms im Michigan, and I agree that they they view U of M grads in a very different light as compared to Wayne and MSU grads.

Anonymous User
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:28 am

Id be interested in hearing as much on this topic as there is to hear.

shaville
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby shaville » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:rms im Michigan, and I agree that they they view U of M grads in a very different light as compared to Wayne and MSU grads.
Anonymous User wrote:I currently work at one of the previously listed law firms im Michigan, and I agree that they they view U of M grads in a very different light as compared to Wayne and MSU grads.


Different as in more likely to hire or less likely to hire UM grads?

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zettsscores40
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby zettsscores40 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:10 pm

There are a lot of nice new developments downtown along the riverfront and in the harbor town area where a lot of young professionals in Detroit and are opting to live. The Jeffersonian is a great example. Royal is also like this. Jesus people act as if someone is going to move on 8 mile or something. As far as the situation for employment wise, IDK but Michigan grads are sought after highly in the state since only a few stay in the state.

edit: as to why on earth would anyone want to stay in Michigan? Some of the nicest suburbs in the country, all the firms listed pay pretty well and don't come with the stress of NYC biglaw from what I've heard from friends that work there, family ties, etc. Life's not all about chasing money.

shaville
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby shaville » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP- however, if you are not from Michigan, why on earth would you want to remain in Michigan? Pretty much every large national law firm, and many mid to small firms in the country goes to Michigan OCI (see NALP).

Mostly is has to with wanting to stay in a place for more than a few years- moving all the time is getting pretty exhausting.

Anonymous User
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:31 pm

Different as in much more likely to hire UM grads.



shaville wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:rms im Michigan, and I agree that they they view U of M grads in a very different light as compared to Wayne and MSU grads.
Anonymous User wrote:I currently work at one of the previously listed law firms im Michigan, and I agree that they they view U of M grads in a very different light as compared to Wayne and MSU grads.


Different as in more likely to hire or less likely to hire UM grads?

tarheel87
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby tarheel87 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:08 pm

zettsscores40 wrote:There are a lot of nice new developments downtown along the riverfront and in the harbor town area where a lot of young professionals in Detroit and are opting to live. The Jeffersonian is a great example. Royal is also like this. Jesus people act as if someone is going to move on 8 mile or something. As far as the situation for employment wise, IDK but Michigan grads are sought after highly in the state since only a few stay in the state.

edit: as to why on earth would anyone want to stay in Michigan? Some of the nicest suburbs in the country, all the firms listed pay pretty well and don't come with the stress of NYC biglaw from what I've heard from friends that work there, family ties, etc. Life's not all about chasing money.


I lived in Grosse Pointe Parks for like 4 years when I was younger, you'd be hard pressed to find a nicer residential area and it's only a few miles outside of Detroit (I think?). I have some family in Royal Oaks and visit every year or two and from what I can tell alot of Detroit is not anywhere NEAR as bad as people make it out to be.

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Go State
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby Go State » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Different as in much more likely to hire UM grads.



shaville wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:rms im Michigan, and I agree that they they view U of M grads in a very different light as compared to Wayne and MSU grads.
Anonymous User wrote:I currently work at one of the previously listed law firms im Michigan, and I agree that they they view U of M grads in a very different light as compared to Wayne and MSU grads.


Different as in more likely to hire or less likely to hire UM grads?


Just to elaborate, but much more likely this person meant MUCH, MUCH MORE LIKELY to hire UM grads. I signed up for OCI with one of the harder to get into firms in Michigan (not because I actually want to work there but because half their OCI slots where open and I figured why not), and the hiring partner who was doing to the interviews told me that he felt that he would hire into the bottom half of the class at UM, but felt that he really couldn't get the quality of people that could do the work at MSU so he just skimmed the way top. I'd say top 5% at MSU gives you a shot at the bigger Michigan firms, but still not a very good one (there really aren't many jobs out here to begin with and a lot of these firms prefer to hire at UM and even schools out of the state before they will hire MSU & WSU students). The hiring partner for the firm I interviewed with told me that he planned to interview around 60-80 people this year for the 5 spots they had (my numbers might be off by a bit, but I remember it was a pretty brutal cut).

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Go State
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby Go State » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:26 pm

tarheel87 wrote:
zettsscores40 wrote:There are a lot of nice new developments downtown along the riverfront and in the harbor town area where a lot of young professionals in Detroit and are opting to live. The Jeffersonian is a great example. Royal is also like this. Jesus people act as if someone is going to move on 8 mile or something. As far as the situation for employment wise, IDK but Michigan grads are sought after highly in the state since only a few stay in the state.

edit: as to why on earth would anyone want to stay in Michigan? Some of the nicest suburbs in the country, all the firms listed pay pretty well and don't come with the stress of NYC biglaw from what I've heard from friends that work there, family ties, etc. Life's not all about chasing money.


I lived in Grosse Pointe Parks for like 4 years when I was younger, you'd be hard pressed to find a nicer residential area and it's only a few miles outside of Detroit (I think?). I have some family in Royal Oaks and visit every year or two and from what I can tell alot of Detroit is not anywhere NEAR as bad as people make it out to be.


I haven't really felt the need to visit Detroit yet, but I just watch the news out here in Ann Arbor (i.e. the Detriot news) and ask myself "what the fuck kinda of ghetto do I live 45 minutes away from" just about every day I watch the news. I mean it's like everyday that there's like 20 murders, a kid getting robbed, and some other ridiculous shit. Even the news reporters look awful -- almost like there isn't any healthy, and generally good looking people that are willing to report the news in Detroit (which is odd because they could easily live here in A2, which isn't bad at all). Then you look at the general housing that people live in during the interviews with the families of the murder victims and it looks really broke down and horrible (and considering we have a class that deals exclusively with the fair housing act and the Detroit housing market, I would imagine it actually is pretty broke down). I haven't really lived too many other places besides here and Chicago, but I can tell you that Chicago is not like that at all... I realize most people probably don't actually live in Detroit that work there, but I'm not so sure I would even want to drive down there every day (at least not without a loaded gun and some bulletproof armor to account for the possible random bullets flying around as idiots try to shoot each other down).

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blue16
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby blue16 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:31 pm

Biglaw is pretty much nonexistent in Detroit if you're referring to the typical definition of biglaw as large, nationwide firms that pay $160,000/year to hire top grads. That doesn't really exist.

However, there is definitely a legal market. Southeast Michigan taken as a region has all the wealth, business activity, etc that would be seen in a major city like Chicago or Atlanta. The only difference is that instead of actually being in Detroit, it's all spread out around Detroit. Most people don't realize that the suburbs around Detroit are exceptionally nice, with many wealthy people and a fair amount of business activity. But, the top jobs you'll find probably won't be much more than $100k a year or less. A lot of it is centered around the auto industry and their suppliers.

Also, as to the question about why anyone would want to live in Michigan, it probably has a lot to do with the fact that you can live very well off a much more modest salary in Michigan.

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underdawg
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Re: Detroit Law?

Postby underdawg » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:58 am

just get a detroit tattoo and no one will question your dedication to the city. forum should be used for tougher questions than this




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