Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
snotrocket
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby snotrocket » Tue May 12, 2009 4:11 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:I also just bought six E&Es, so I can do some beach reading. I also need LEEWS, and I have to finish Getting to Maybe, and now apparently I need a speed typing course.

I predict you will go far in this profession.

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ruraljuror
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby ruraljuror » Tue May 12, 2009 4:13 pm

What's LEEWS?

snotrocket
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby snotrocket » Tue May 12, 2009 4:14 pm

ruraljuror wrote:What's LEEWS?

http://leews.com/

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ruraljuror
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby ruraljuror » Tue May 12, 2009 4:15 pm

snotrocket wrote:
ruraljuror wrote:What's LEEWS?

http://leews.com/

ooh, thanks! Why haven't I heard of this before, is it pretty good?

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JoshHK
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby JoshHK » Tue May 12, 2009 4:16 pm

snotrocket wrote:
ruraljuror wrote:What's LEEWS?

http://leews.com/


the correct response would have been: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=leews

snotrocket
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby snotrocket » Tue May 12, 2009 4:18 pm

CE2JD wrote:But seriously, 60 WPM should be fast enough. For a 3-hour exam, that's 60 * 180 = 10800 words. I'm not sure how long a typical law school exam is supposed to be, but 10800 words is a shitload of writing.

You can't literally type every minute of the time allowed, so realistically assume that you spend 2/3 of the time typing and 1/3 thinking about what to write. That would be closer to 7,200 words for a three-hour exam -- a lot, but not an unreal amount. Either way, the faster you can type, the more time you have to think and still get as many issues on paper as you can spot in the time allowed. More issues + deeper analysis = more points.

snotrocket
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby snotrocket » Tue May 12, 2009 4:21 pm

ruraljuror wrote:
snotrocket wrote:
ruraljuror wrote:What's LEEWS?

http://leews.com/

ooh, thanks! Why haven't I heard of this before, is it pretty good?

It is what it is. You can probably get as much from reading Delaney's book on writing exams + Getting to Maybe. If you have never seen a law school exam before in your life, then reading something about how to write them will get you on the right track. Nothing is a magic bullet though. Only working timed practice exams and comparing your work with model answers will really give you the skills you need.

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CE2JD
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby CE2JD » Tue May 12, 2009 4:22 pm

snotrocket wrote:
CE2JD wrote:But seriously, 60 WPM should be fast enough. For a 3-hour exam, that's 60 * 180 = 10800 words. I'm not sure how long a typical law school exam is supposed to be, but 10800 words is a shitload of writing.

You can't literally type every minute of the time allowed, so realistically assume that you spend 2/3 of the time typing and 1/3 thinking about what to write. That would be closer to 7,200 words for a three-hour exam -- a lot, but not an unreal amount. Either way, the faster you can type, the more time you have to think and still get as many issues on paper as you can spot in the time allowed. More issues + deeper analysis = more points.


:roll:

IMO, the marginal advantage of each additional WPM that you can type after about 40 WPM exponentially decays at such a fast rate that the difference between your ability to get more issues and better analysis at 60 WPM vs. 70 WPM is pretty much nil.

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Roth Mantel
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Roth Mantel » Tue May 12, 2009 4:24 pm

Lies, typing speed is 99% of law school. This is what it takes to win a CALI in 100% of in-class exams:

--ImageRemoved--

:P

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue May 12, 2009 4:26 pm

snotrocket wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I also just bought six E&Es, so I can do some beach reading. I also need LEEWS, and I have to finish Getting to Maybe, and now apparently I need a speed typing course.

I predict you will go far in this profession.


I hope you are right. I'm about to borrow $210,000 for a chance to find out! <3

snotrocket
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby snotrocket » Tue May 12, 2009 4:27 pm

Roth Mantel wrote:Lies, typing speed is 99% of law school. This is what it takes to win a CALI in 100% of in-class exams:

--ImageRemoved--

:P

TITCR. To hell with LSAT/UGPA and their piddly 0.40 correlation. If you want true predictive power, just admit people based on Typer Shark scores.

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lawfool
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby lawfool » Tue May 12, 2009 4:29 pm

typing speed troll.


More important than any of this typing speed nonsense: do you think your advice of only needing to study 1.5 hours still matters in this economy? I don't know the exact timing but I don't think your class knew how bad things were getting until this semester?

2 years ago I would have coasted along, this year I feel a lot more gunnery. And I have never felt gunnery about anything in my life (typical slacker).


EDIT: Forget above. 170/3.9/120 wpm what are my odds at CCN?
Last edited by lawfool on Tue May 12, 2009 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jay Phatsby
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Jay Phatsby » Tue May 12, 2009 4:30 pm

thanks for the wonderful advice

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Justice4All
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Justice4All » Tue May 12, 2009 4:31 pm

ari20dal7 wrote:I haven't posted here in forever, but I just finished my last 1L final yesterday and thought I owed the community a little bit of advice for the help I got. I think I'll just say a little bit and follow it up with a few bullet points.

Law school is not difficult in substance. I went to UCLA, which is an OK school and is pretty well regarded. If you're going to upper T14, maybe it will be harder for you. It was not hard for me. The reason it was not hard is that law school is a process. It rewards a very narrow skill set and provides no incentive to learn much at all. To do well in 1L classes (legal writing aside), you need to know how to do three things: briefly summarize a rule, type fast, and make arguments on the fly. That's it. You also need to figure out what your prof's G-spot is so that you can work it into your argument somehow. Knowing detailed fact patterns is useless. Memorizing details for fear of Socratic embarrassment is useless. Trying to put together a comprehensive two hundred page outline is useless. If you cannot fit all the law you need to know in a particular area (for example, acceptance in contracts) into two pages, this is probably because you do not understand the law in that area.

I did not learn all of this the hard way. I am lazy and do not like law school. I think the people are fine, but it's not my set at all. Therefore, I spent as little time at the law school as possible, probably studying about an hour a day five days a week on average. I went to about half of my classes. I got great grades (so far) and have no reason to expect that will not continue. Why do I tell you this? I tell you this because for most of us, whatever's going on at law school has very little to do with what we want to get out of it. How many of you are seriously interested in the philosophical implications of easements? How many of you really care about the difference between strict liability tort regimes and negligence-based regimes? Almost none of you, and if you don't know what those words mean, thanks for proving the point. Most of us care about getting good grades and good (read: well paying) jobs. Some of us have an interest that we hope to explore in law school, an interest that will consume fifteen percent of our time in class at best. A few of us actually want to help people. But Socratic methods and pointless briefing serves none of those objectives. Read the essay on "How to Succeed in Law School" on this site and, if you're not going to a really, really good school, cut out the bit about the hornbooks. Do not fall into the trap. If you're at something other than T6 and you're working ten hours a day, you're working four times too much.

Now, I should of course qualify this: your mileage may vary. You may read a little more slowly and need some more time. You may really care about the law, in which case feel free to knock yourself out. But I've seen nothing in a full year at what purports to be a good school that would indicate that the standard experience should vary all that much. If you do what's in that essay or even a scaled back version of it, you will win the dumbest game in graduate school. I should caution you: if you absolutely must finish #1 in the class, then do what's in that essay AND go crazy with the briefing. Just realize that the first 5% of your work will (presuming you know how to work) get you the first 90% of your results.

A few other random tips:

1) Watch out for the time suck. Law school will provide you with a deluge of stupidity designed to get you to spend every waking moment there. I found one thing I liked doing and did only that thing. Do not trick yourself into thinking "well, maybe I'll be interested in the drafting of contracts in widget law". If you want to do extracurricular thinking (as I do), whatever law school you consider will have a first rate university library. Use it. Read good books.

2) Avoid the temptation to talk about your own results. I guess there are a few people around TLS who know who I am, but most of them probably don't read this anymore. I've discussed my performance openly with only a couple of people here at the law school and only after I knew for sure that they were pretty straight up people who see the world in much the same way as I do. I think nothing is more pathetic than people who barely know you fishing for grades. Whether you got great grades or bad grades, act like you've been there before. You'll be less stressed.

3) Realize that, like it or not, the stupidity of your classmates serves your goals and the intelligence of your classmates is at best neutral. Don't go out of your way to work with everyone and form study groups. If you want to, then do it, I guess. But think about it this way: if you basically do the same thing as everyone else, you'll get basically the same results. In an awful economy, are you interested in putting your grades on the roulette wheel? Are you interested in hoping that the prof likes your IRAC better than the one that's exactly identical from the girl across the aisle? I wouldn't be. Learn how to summarize and type fast.

4) There are really a lot of things to like about law school. If you do it right, you'll have lots of time to pursue your own interests and people will assume you're busy. Great combination, if you ask me. I've met some really nice people and I haven't met a single person I dislike (very much). Don't waste what will probably be your last chance to read good books and watch more basketball than any reasonable person could stomach.

5) If you spend a lot of time, spend it on your memos. These are the thing where more time really does improve results. If your legal writing class is pass/fail, then who cares?

One last thing: I just read this and it sounds pretty arrogant and mean. That's not the intent. The intent is just to try and help many of you to see what I saw: the law school experience does nothing for you other than give you the ability to take a BarBri class and a set of credentials.

Also, if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer.


I look forward to whooping your butt in court someday, Douche.

snotrocket
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby snotrocket » Tue May 12, 2009 4:31 pm

lawfool wrote:2 years ago I would have coasted along, this year I feel a lot more gunnery. And I have never felt gunnery about anything in my life (typical slacker).

Seems like you pretty much answered your own question. If you're a slacker and feeling that kick in the ass, then it's a safe bet most others are as well.

snotrocket
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby snotrocket » Tue May 12, 2009 4:33 pm

lawfool wrote:EDIT: Forget above. 170/3.9/120 wpm what are my odds at CCN?

Borderline. What are your softs and w/e? You should really think about taking Mavis Beacon and replaying. If you can break 125 wpm, your odds will go up quite a bit (as will your scholarships).

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98234872348
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby 98234872348 » Tue May 12, 2009 4:42 pm

.
Last edited by 98234872348 on Thu May 19, 2011 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bigben
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby bigben » Tue May 12, 2009 4:45 pm

Justice4All wrote:I look forward to whooping your butt in court someday, Douche.


LOL, this makes no sense. Bitter classmate?

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Justice4All
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Justice4All » Tue May 12, 2009 4:49 pm

bigben wrote:
Justice4All wrote:I look forward to whooping your butt in court someday, Douche.


LOL, this makes no sense. Bitter classmate?


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=douche

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Cleareyes
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Cleareyes » Tue May 12, 2009 4:51 pm

Justice4All wrote:
bigben wrote:
Justice4All wrote:I look forward to whooping your butt in court someday, Douche.


LOL, this makes no sense. Bitter classmate?


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=douche

What about this post angered you?

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jackrabbitjones
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby jackrabbitjones » Tue May 12, 2009 4:51 pm

Justice4All wrote:I look forward to whooping your butt in court someday, Douche.


:shock: :shock: :shock:

Back2School
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Back2School » Tue May 12, 2009 4:52 pm

tagged for reference

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ihatelaw
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby ihatelaw » Tue May 12, 2009 4:53 pm

im curious why you think there is a difference in the study habits required between ucla and a t6? i always figured they would be roughly the same.

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mallard
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby mallard » Tue May 12, 2009 4:53 pm

Justice4All wrote:I look forward to whooping your butt in court someday, Douche.


This is such a ridiculous thing for people to say. It makes me scratch my head so much every single time.

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CE2JD
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby CE2JD » Tue May 12, 2009 4:56 pm

mallard wrote:
Justice4All wrote:I look forward to whooping your butt in court someday, Douche.


This is such a ridiculous thing for people to say. It makes me scratch my head so much every single time.


Just ftr, I DO NOT look forward to meeting mallard in court someday...






















...even if he is a douche.




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