Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
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Cleareyes
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Cleareyes » Tue May 12, 2009 3:26 pm

rayiner wrote:
And it isn't a useless mechanism.


Oh I don't disagree. I'm just saying that you perspective is refreshing, for someone like me who doesn't exactly think of LS (or school in general) as a "fascinating intellectual journey".


I got a little excited when he said "Philosophical implications of easements."

Cynical pragmatism fail :(

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rayiner
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby rayiner » Tue May 12, 2009 3:27 pm

I think law school is going to mean the end of my beloved MacBook. The chiclet keyboard is just not conducive to 70+ WPM typing...

Experimental data:

typingtest.com (astronauts):

MacBook: 85 WPM (gross), 87% accuracy, 74 WPM (net)
Dell: 99 WPM (gross), 91% accuracy, 91 WPM (net)
Last edited by rayiner on Tue May 12, 2009 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Kohinoor » Tue May 12, 2009 3:27 pm

Ugh. Need to triple my writing speed, read Getting to Maybe, relearn Mandarin, and read all of my E&Es.

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CE2JD
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby CE2JD » Tue May 12, 2009 3:30 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I type around 60 WPM. I think I'm actually faster at longhand, since I've kept a journal for eleven years. I wouldn't wish my handwriting on professors, though. It tends to look straight out of the 19th century. I do have a flair for calligraphy, though. Would that help?


I'd be amazed to watch someone hand-write faster than 60 WPM FOR ALMOST THREE HOURS with only 2 ten-minute breaks!!


I didn't say I could do it for almost three hours. I didn't do that much journaling! I'm going to type.


But seriously, 60 WPM should be fast enough. For a 3-hour exam, that's 60 * 180 = 10800 words. I'm not sure how long a typical law school exam is supposed to be, but 10800 words is a shitload of writing.

THAT'S 30-40 PAGES OF WRITING (assuming double-space, 12-point font, normal margins).

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pany1985
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby pany1985 » Tue May 12, 2009 3:31 pm

I'm going to spend my summer developing technology to implant a chip into my brain that will contain the sum of human knowledge. It'll save a lot of time during law school when I don't have to study or read or do any research.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue May 12, 2009 3:32 pm

CE2JD wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I type around 60 WPM. I think I'm actually faster at longhand, since I've kept a journal for eleven years. I wouldn't wish my handwriting on professors, though. It tends to look straight out of the 19th century. I do have a flair for calligraphy, though. Would that help?


I'd be amazed to watch someone hand-write faster than 60 WPM FOR ALMOST THREE HOURS with only 2 ten-minute breaks!!


I didn't say I could do it for almost three hours. I didn't do that much journaling! I'm going to type.


But seriously, 60 WPM should be fast enough. For a 3-hour exam, that's 60 * 180 = 10800 words. I'm not sure how long a typical law school exam is supposed to be, but 10800 words is a shitload of writing.

THAT'S 30-40 PAGES OF WRITING (assuming double-space, 12-point font, normal margins).


WOW. Are the model answers really that long?

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CE2JD
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby CE2JD » Tue May 12, 2009 3:35 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
CE2JD wrote:
I'd be amazed to watch someone hand-write faster than 60 WPM FOR ALMOST THREE HOURS with only 2 ten-minute breaks!!


I didn't say I could do it for almost three hours. I didn't do that much journaling! I'm going to type.


But seriously, 60 WPM should be fast enough. For a 3-hour exam, that's 60 * 180 = 10800 words. I'm not sure how long a typical law school exam is supposed to be, but 10800 words is a shitload of writing.

THAT'S 30-40 PAGES OF WRITING (assuming double-space, 12-point font, normal margins).


WOW. Are the model answers really that long?


No. I've been looking at model contracts exams for the past couple of minutes and they seem to be about 15 pages on average. Granted, I don't know how long people had to complete these exams.

Bankhead
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Bankhead » Tue May 12, 2009 3:35 pm

Anyone remember the link to that internet game that times your typing speed?

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rayiner
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby rayiner » Tue May 12, 2009 3:35 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
rayiner wrote:
And it isn't a useless mechanism.


Oh I don't disagree. I'm just saying that you perspective is refreshing, for someone like me who doesn't exactly think of LS (or school in general) as a "fascinating intellectual journey".


I got a little excited when he said "Philosophical implications of easements."

Cynical pragmatism fail :(


"Academic", he said as if spitting out the word in disdain...

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RVP11
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby RVP11 » Tue May 12, 2009 3:36 pm

With the arrival of OS this thread is starting to become a gunner hive.

zOMG gotta go home and read E&Es!

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platicus
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby platicus » Tue May 12, 2009 3:36 pm

yoink!

dan123456
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby dan123456 » Tue May 12, 2009 3:37 pm

+1

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CE2JD
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby CE2JD » Tue May 12, 2009 3:38 pm

I call bullshit on the "you have to type at least 70 WPM to succeed in law school" theorem.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue May 12, 2009 3:38 pm

CE2JD wrote:No. I've been looking at model contracts exams for the past couple of minutes and they seem to be about 15 pages on average. Granted, I don't know how long people had to complete these exams.


I feel slightly better, although I'd really rather have 8 hours, even for 15 pages.

Where are you finding these model exams?

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CE2JD
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby CE2JD » Tue May 12, 2009 3:41 pm


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Hook 'Em
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Hook 'Em » Tue May 12, 2009 3:44 pm

badlydrawn wrote:I need to improve my typing speed.

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RudeDudewithAttitude
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby RudeDudewithAttitude » Tue May 12, 2009 3:46 pm

Good stuff. Thanks.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Kohinoor » Tue May 12, 2009 3:49 pm

Just got the Mavis Beacon typing tutor. If you're gonna gun, gun hard right?

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue May 12, 2009 3:50 pm



Lulz, true that. You were one step ahead of me.

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JoshHK
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby JoshHK » Tue May 12, 2009 3:56 pm

CE2JD: lmgtfy FTW... i love that site. though it's a little bitchy. in a funny way. :)

but back to the point here...

i sat in on a "review" torts class when i visted ND (as in it was the last class before finals), and the professor actually has a 2000 word limit on exams. I'm not saying OP is wrong... just noting that more words =/= better grades in all cases.

it was professor Snead for those of you headed to ND next fall... his whole point is that it's important to be concise and accurate... so he specifically does not want students to just type and try to randomly hit every issue they can possibly imagine....

as far as th original 'how to succeed in law school' post goes - i don't really get how these flow charts work... yes, i'm a 0L with no exposure to the actual content yet, but will it start to make sense at some point? or should i be able to figure it out now?

bigben
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby bigben » Tue May 12, 2009 3:58 pm

FWIW, here are the lengths of two of my exams which both received A's (T14 school):

2600 words / 3 hrs = 14.4 WPM

1900 words / 2 hrs = 15.8 WPM


I did not manage to crank out very high word counts on any of my exams. But then again, I did not do that well on all of them.
Last edited by bigben on Tue May 12, 2009 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CE2JD
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby CE2JD » Tue May 12, 2009 3:59 pm

bigben wrote:FWIW, here are the lengths of two exams that I got A's on (T14 school):

2600 words / 3 hrs = 14.4 WPM

1900 words / 2 hrs = 15.8 WPM


Thanks for bringing some realistic sanity to this gunnerfest.

Inygma
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Inygma » Tue May 12, 2009 4:02 pm

CE2JD wrote:
bigben wrote:FWIW, here are the lengths of two exams that I got A's on (T14 school):

2600 words / 3 hrs = 14.4 WPM

1900 words / 2 hrs = 15.8 WPM


Thanks for bringing some realistic sanity to this gunnerfest.


+1

snotrocket
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby snotrocket » Tue May 12, 2009 4:02 pm

ari20dal7 wrote:5) If you spend a lot of time, spend it on your memos. These are the thing where more time really does improve results. If your legal writing class is pass/fail, then who cares?

I have to admit this is pretty much TCOP. I especially agree with this point, and I would say put a lot of work into Legal Writing even if it is pass/fail. The skills you build writing a winning memo that even a working attorney would respect will help to make you fast and accurate and able to hit the sweet spot on exams, as long as you think about what you're doing and generalize your methods.

The only thing I would add is that, regardless of the level of school, just keep in mind OP that it's likely you are also quite smart and came into law school with skills well adapted to the particular performance tests used here. The funny thing about law school though is that you do not have to be a big brain or naturally well adapted to it in order to perform well. I suspect this is not so much the case for certain other disciplines, though it might be. It is generally true for many things in life.

For some people, a gigantic amount of hard work can get them every bit as far as you got by being smart and doing exactly what mattered -- and not one bit more. Those who want to get the grades and the jobs and who don't find it naturally easy can still learn a lot from paying attention to the winning slackers. Efficiency and a sound strategy are even more important when you find the basic work challenging, and watching what the slackers do will point you to the most productive approach that will ensure all of your work pays off.

You absolutely have to figure out for yourself what matters and what doesn't. That right there is the one thing that screws more people up than anything else -- not knowing the difference between what matters and what doesn't. In law school, as in real life, you have to figure out what it takes to succeed and how to do what it takes, before you can even start doing it. If you don't get that straight from the start or figure it out very quick, then you are in for a boatload of misery.

The smart lawyer's first question is, "What is the rule?" Her second question is, "What's the worst that can happen if I break it?" The lesson: If it doesn't matter, DON'T DO IT.

Those who are whip smart AND willing to do unreal amounts of work -- you are the future SCOTUS clerks of the world. See, e.g., xeoh85.
Last edited by snotrocket on Tue May 12, 2009 4:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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jackrabbitjones
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby jackrabbitjones » Tue May 12, 2009 4:07 pm

Thanks. This actually makes me feel better.




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