Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

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Cleareyes
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Cleareyes » Tue May 12, 2009 4:56 pm

ihatelaw wrote:im curious why you think there is a difference in the study habits required between ucla and a t6? i always figured they would be roughly the same.


Caliber of opposition, perhaps. I don't understand why people think that HYS would be so relaxed because "everyone is guaranteed a job." First of all that isn't really true ITE (though it's close to true) but secondly, most people got to HYS by being huge gunners their whole lives. I doubt they will be stopping just because they are likely to get a job at this point. Maybe the competition isn't as brutal as it is at a place like Cooley where your very law school life depends upon your grades, but you're also facing off against some very bright and skilled students.

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Justice4All
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Justice4All » Tue May 12, 2009 4:58 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
Justice4All wrote:
bigben wrote:
Justice4All wrote:I look forward to whooping your butt in court someday, Douche.


LOL, this makes no sense. Bitter classmate?


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=douche

What about this post angered you?


It doesn't make me angry, it just makes OP sound like a major douchebag. I'm not going to get into a protracted argument about it on this thread, because anyone who doesn't see this immediately when reading the post won't be convinced by me. I'll just say I know a lot of (really bad, and self-important) lawyers who have the same mindset as OP.

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RVP11
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby RVP11 » Tue May 12, 2009 4:58 pm

mallard wrote:
Justice4All wrote:I look forward to whooping your butt in court someday, Douche.


This is such a ridiculous thing for people to say. It makes me scratch my head so much every single time.


It's not ridiculous. 100% of us will become litigators, we'll all practice in a small town called TLS-ville, and oral advocacy skills are easily discernable over the interweb. Duh.

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Cole S. Law
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Cole S. Law » Tue May 12, 2009 5:01 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
ihatelaw wrote:im curious why you think there is a difference in the study habits required between ucla and a t6? i always figured they would be roughly the same.


Caliber of opposition, perhaps. I don't understand why people think that HYS would be so relaxed because "everyone is guaranteed a job." First of all that isn't really true ITE (though it's close to true) but secondly, most people got to HYS by being huge gunners their whole lives. I doubt they will be stopping just because they are likely to get a job at this point. Maybe the competition isn't as brutal as it is at a place like Cooley where your very law school life depends upon your grades, but you're also facing off against some very bright and skilled students.


My guess (as someone with no chance of going to Harvard): after 1st semester the future SCOTUS candidates have kicked your ass even after you burned yourself out studying. Then you get an awesome 1L clerkship anyways and realize that 10th percentile at Harvard is still pretty good. You adjust your effort level accordingly. Again, this is just speculation.
Last edited by Cole S. Law on Tue May 12, 2009 7:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

sbalive
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby sbalive » Tue May 12, 2009 5:02 pm

Justice4All wrote:It doesn't make me angry, it just makes OP sound like a major douchebag. I'm not going to get into a protracted argument about it on this thread, because anyone who doesn't see this immediately when reading the post won't be convinced by me. I'll just say I know a lot of (really bad, and self-important) lawyers who have the same mindset as OP.


FWIW, +1 - But to each their own 8)

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feeblemiles
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby feeblemiles » Tue May 12, 2009 5:03 pm

Interesting read OP... thanks for posting.

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jackrabbitjones
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby jackrabbitjones » Tue May 12, 2009 5:03 pm

Justice4All wrote:It doesn't make me angry, it just makes OP sound like a major douchebag. I'm not going to get into a protracted argument about it on this thread, because anyone who doesn't see this immediately when reading the post won't be convinced by me. I'll just say I know a lot of (really bad, and self-important) lawyers who have the same mindset as OP.


Maybe. But OP still seems like more fun to hang out with.

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20160810
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby 20160810 » Tue May 12, 2009 5:05 pm

This is a fantastic thread. Congrats on doing well at UCLA!

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ruleser
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby ruleser » Tue May 12, 2009 5:07 pm

This is the stupidest, most off-the-mark post ever... not really, I just felt like typing that.

OP, word of advice - somewhat intelligent gamers like you can game school, and end up with nice mediocre careers. But there is a difference with those who truly excel, both in work ethic and top intelligence. You will realize this 10-15 years down the road as you join the malcontent whining band that gets lost in the crowd...
Last edited by ruleser on Tue May 12, 2009 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cleareyes
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Cleareyes » Tue May 12, 2009 5:09 pm

Justice4All wrote:
It doesn't make me angry, it just makes OP sound like a major douchebag. I'm not going to get into a protracted argument about it on this thread, because anyone who doesn't see this immediately when reading the post won't be convinced by me. I'll just say I know a lot of (really bad, and self-important) lawyers who have the same mindset as OP.


I dunno. He's just trying to help people. I can't imagine studying that little in law school (just because I wouldn't be going if I weren't interested in the material) but it's still useful to know how he did so well with such efficiency at an excellent school. It will help in making sure I don't end up as one of those people who studies his ass off and still ends up below the 50th percentile because he worked hard, not smart. I want to learn but I also want to do well.

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Aeroplane
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Aeroplane » Tue May 12, 2009 5:13 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
ihatelaw wrote:im curious why you think there is a difference in the study habits required between ucla and a t6? i always figured they would be roughly the same.


Caliber of opposition, perhaps. I don't understand why people think that HYS would be so relaxed because "everyone is guaranteed a job." First of all that isn't really true ITE (though it's close to true) but secondly, most people got to HYS by being huge gunners their whole lives. I doubt they will be stopping just because they are likely to get a job at this point. Maybe the competition isn't as brutal as it is at a place like Cooley where your very law school life depends upon your grades, but you're also facing off against some very bright and skilled students.


Offhand, I'd expect the top few students at UCLA to be capable of reaching top 10% at Harvard. As you go deeper into the class, I would expect the mean difference to grow exponentially. Is there any data out there on how transfer-ups do at their new homes? I guess it wouldn't be that meaningful, since 2L/3L aren't curved the same way as 1L.

bigben
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby bigben » Tue May 12, 2009 5:18 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
ihatelaw wrote:im curious why you think there is a difference in the study habits required between ucla and a t6? i always figured they would be roughly the same.


Caliber of opposition, perhaps. I don't understand why people think that HYS would be so relaxed because "everyone is guaranteed a job." First of all that isn't really true ITE (though it's close to true) but secondly, most people got to HYS by being huge gunners their whole lives. I doubt they will be stopping just because they are likely to get a job at this point. Maybe the competition isn't as brutal as it is at a place like Cooley where your very law school life depends upon your grades, but you're also facing off against some very bright and skilled students.


Ari is just speculating on this front. My hunch is that he is probably wrong. I have no problem with his post overall though.

cbreault
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby cbreault » Tue May 12, 2009 5:22 pm

ruleser wrote:This is the stupidest, most off-the-mark post ever... not really, I just felt like typing that.

OP, word of advice - somewhat intelligent gamers like you can game school, and end up with nice mediocre careers. But there is a difference with those who truly excel, both in work ethic and top intelligence. You will realize this 10-15 years down the road as you join the malcontent whining band that gets lost in the crowd...


Have you ever thought that it might all be a game? That being good at "gaming" law school might translate exactly into being good at "gaming" the law profession. Any trial can easily be viewed as a game, and the OP's adeptness in gaming school will quite plausibly translate into adeptness in gaming a judge and jurors. 'A's are 'A's. Your little bit about "truly excelling in work ethic and 'top' intelligence" shows your jealousy of those who get results without near the expense and sacrifice to which you are accustomed, which indicates you are most likely not one of those with "top intelligence" and hence most likely will not be one of those "who truly excel."

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Aeroplane
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby Aeroplane » Tue May 12, 2009 5:28 pm

cbreault wrote:
ruleser wrote:This is the stupidest, most off-the-mark post ever... not really, I just felt like typing that.

OP, word of advice - somewhat intelligent gamers like you can game school, and end up with nice mediocre careers. But there is a difference with those who truly excel, both in work ethic and top intelligence. You will realize this 10-15 years down the road as you join the malcontent whining band that gets lost in the crowd...


Have you ever thought that it might all be a game? That being good at "gaming" law school might translate exactly into being good at "gaming" the law profession. Any trial can easily be viewed as a game, and the OP's adeptness in gaming school will quite plausibly translate into adeptness in gaming a judge and jurors. 'A's are 'A's. Your little bit about "truly excelling in work ethic and 'top' intelligence" shows your jealousy of those who get results without near the expense and sacrifice to which you are accustomed, which indicates you are most likely not one of those with "top intelligence" and hence most likely will not be one of those "who truly excel."


+1 to the bold part. Can't speak for the rest since I know nothing about law school & law practice.

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los blancos
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby los blancos » Tue May 12, 2009 5:28 pm

cbreault wrote:...which indicates you are most likely not one of those with "top intelligence" and hence most likely will not be one of those "who truly excel."


:shock: :lol:

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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby stayawake5 » Tue May 12, 2009 5:30 pm

cbreault wrote:
ruleser wrote:This is the stupidest, most off-the-mark post ever... not really, I just felt like typing that.

OP, word of advice - somewhat intelligent gamers like you can game school, and end up with nice mediocre careers. But there is a difference with those who truly excel, both in work ethic and top intelligence. You will realize this 10-15 years down the road as you join the malcontent whining band that gets lost in the crowd...


Have you ever thought that it might all be a game? That being good at "gaming" law school might translate exactly into being good at "gaming" the law profession. Any trial can easily be viewed as a game, and the OP's adeptness in gaming school will quite plausibly translate into adeptness in gaming a judge and jurors. 'A's are 'A's. Your little bit about "truly excelling in work ethic and 'top' intelligence" shows your jealousy of those who get results without near the expense and sacrifice to which you are accustomed, which indicates you are most likely not one of those with "top intelligence" and hence most likely will not be one of those "who truly excel."


+1

bigben
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby bigben » Tue May 12, 2009 5:42 pm

Justice4All wrote:It doesn't make me angry, it just makes OP sound like a major douchebag. I'm not going to get into a protracted argument about it on this thread, because anyone who doesn't see this immediately when reading the post won't be convinced by me. I'll just say I know a lot of (really bad, and self-important) lawyers who have the same mindset as OP.
ruleser wrote:This is the stupidest, most off-the-mark post ever... not really, I just felt like typing that.

OP, word of advice - somewhat intelligent gamers like you can game school, and end up with nice mediocre careers. But there is a difference with those who truly excel, both in work ethic and top intelligence. You will realize this 10-15 years down the road as you join the malcontent whining band that gets lost in the crowd...


I don't understand, What is this? A self-righteous adherence to case-briefing? I mean, I have as much respect for work ethic as anyone, but some of us feel the need to at least try and expend our efforts on things that matter.
Last edited by bigben on Tue May 12, 2009 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sbalive
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby sbalive » Tue May 12, 2009 5:45 pm

bigben wrote:I don't get comments like this.

Justice4All wrote:It doesn't make me angry, it just makes OP sound like a major douchebag. I'm not going to get into a protracted argument about it on this thread, because anyone who doesn't see this immediately when reading the post won't be convinced by me. I'll just say I know a lot of (really bad, and self-important) lawyers who have the same mindset as OP.
ruleser wrote:This is the stupidest, most off-the-mark post ever... not really, I just felt like typing that.

OP, word of advice - somewhat intelligent gamers like you can game school, and end up with nice mediocre careers. But there is a difference with those who truly excel, both in work ethic and top intelligence. You will realize this 10-15 years down the road as you join the malcontent whining band that gets lost in the crowd...


What is this? A self-righteous adherence to case-briefing?

I mean, I have as much respect for work ethic as anyone, but some of us feel the need to at least try and expend our efforts on things that matter.


I can't presume to speak for Justice4All, but what bothered me wasn't the stuff related to focusing efforts, and I'm going to agree - if it didn't bother you then (a) you won't be convinced & it's all fine for you, or (b) you ignored the problematic comments and focused on the kernels of useful advice.

necromancer
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby necromancer » Tue May 12, 2009 5:51 pm

cbreault wrote:
ruleser wrote:This is the stupidest, most off-the-mark post ever... not really, I just felt like typing that.

OP, word of advice - somewhat intelligent gamers like you can game school, and end up with nice mediocre careers. But there is a difference with those who truly excel, both in work ethic and top intelligence. You will realize this 10-15 years down the road as you join the malcontent whining band that gets lost in the crowd...


Have you ever thought that it might all be a game? That being good at "gaming" law school might translate exactly into being good at "gaming" the law profession. Any trial can easily be viewed as a game, and the OP's adeptness in gaming school will quite plausibly translate into adeptness in gaming a judge and jurors. 'A's are 'A's. Your little bit about "truly excelling in work ethic and 'top' intelligence" shows your jealousy of those who get results without near the expense and sacrifice to which you are accustomed, which indicates you are most likely not one of those with "top intelligence" and hence most likely will not be one of those "who truly excel."



+1

This is kind of a tangent, but I was thinking the other day that life is basically a game, except we don't know who started it, why we're playing, and even the most basic rules we define ourselves by can be turned upside down so easily it's not even funny.

The ones who really "win the game" (in life and law) are the ones who can play their best and still have fun. ((flashing back to playing soccer on saturdays as a kid, when I was on the most pathetic losing-est team ever :roll: ))

bigben
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby bigben » Tue May 12, 2009 5:52 pm

sbalive wrote:I can't presume to speak for Justice4All, but what bothered me wasn't the stuff related to focusing efforts, and I'm going to agree - if it didn't bother you then (a) you won't be convinced & it's all fine for you, or (b) you ignored the problematic comments and focused on the kernels of useful advice.


I guess you're right...maybe it was the mention of a high-paying job, or the slacker attitude? These things just seem excusable to me for someone who is on a rant having just finished 1L.

Or maybe it's the idea that it is insensitive to others to reveal that you did well with relatively little study? I don't feel that way, but I can understand it.

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jackrabbitjones
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby jackrabbitjones » Tue May 12, 2009 6:34 pm

I kinda feel like the fact that OP offered this for advice and to help OLs excused any arrogance. He didn't create a thread to tell people how awesome he was. Don't like his methods, then disagree, but don't call him a douche out of nowhere, especially when about 1% of the posts on TLS are from folks with actual experience in law school.

snotrocket
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby snotrocket » Tue May 12, 2009 6:39 pm

bigben wrote:Or maybe it's the idea that it is insensitive to others to reveal that you did well with relatively little study? I don't feel that way, but I can understand it.

Seems like that would be more helpful than insensitive -- assuming he has relevant advice that could help those who worked their asses off and wound up disappointed.

snotrocket
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby snotrocket » Tue May 12, 2009 6:42 pm

jackrabbitjones wrote:about 1% of the posts on TLS are from folks with actual experience in law school.

I think it's more these days. The law school and class of threads seem pretty full of people who have been on TLS since before they started, and have hung around since then. The site has finally been around long enough to have a large user community that has gone all the way through first year, and it seems like the balance has tipped somewhat from being 100% 0Ls the way it was even a year ago.

bigben
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby bigben » Tue May 12, 2009 6:46 pm

snotrocket wrote:
bigben wrote:Or maybe it's the idea that it is insensitive to others to reveal that you did well with relatively little study? I don't feel that way, but I can understand it.

Seems like that would be more helpful than insensitive -- assuming he has relevant advice that could help those who worked their asses off and wound up disappointed.


My thoughts exactly.

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jackrabbitjones
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Re: Friendly advice for future 1Ls from a longtime TLSer

Postby jackrabbitjones » Tue May 12, 2009 6:52 pm

snotrocket wrote:
jackrabbitjones wrote:about 1% of the posts on TLS are from folks with actual experience in law school.

I think it's more these days. The law school and class of threads seem pretty full of people who have been on TLS since before they started, and have hung around since then. The site has finally been around long enough to have a large user community that has gone all the way through first year, and it seems like the balance has tipped somewhat from being 100% 0Ls the way it was even a year ago.


Point taken. I guess what I meant was there are so many 0Ls who offer advice whereas there are very few matriculates. I think it's telling that a lot of people flocked to this guy because he has actual experience. I'm guessing people slowly turn away from here after their cycle. My posts will probably drop off significantly, if I post at all.




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