Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
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teachlearn
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby teachlearn » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:13 am

Jay Obee wrote:You have to take the money at Penn. Just out of principle, you can't attend a school that won't even negotiate with you where there is a full scholarship to a peer school. It is a slap in the face. It is much better to love someone who loves you back. And you have an Ivy League school that is every bit as good as Berkeley waiting for you with bags full of cash in each hand.

And-by Robolettter? Really? Do you really want to attend a school that responds to your consideration-worthy situation with a roboletter? This is exactly why I can't go back to a UC. I'm very much looking forward to the luxuries of a private education, including an administration that sees you as more than just a number.



I know, the roboletter was really intense, especially given how nice Dean Tom was when I was admitted. I actually know a lot of prospectives who turned down Berkeley because they were turned off by the bureaucracy. The thing that peeved me most of all is that schools that I did not even get into showed me more respect (i.e. Stanford admissions staff were super gracious and nice). There could have at least been a "We think your experience in ___ is really interesting." I get that they are stressed, but so am I.

And THAT is my tirade for the evening.

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teachlearn
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby teachlearn » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:14 am

p.s. Does it matter that I am most likely doing PI work and Berkeley has a great repayment program?

Jay Obee
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby Jay Obee » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:40 am

teachlearn wrote:p.s. Does it matter that I am most likely doing PI work and Berkeley has a great repayment program?


Not when UPenn has a better prepayment program. PI can be a lot of things that pay more than 60-80k per year (whatever the phaseout is). Why limit yourself? What if you decided to work in the Obama administration? What if you decide to work as a prosecutor and make 100-150k a year for the rest of your life? What if you decide to quit law and raise kids for a couple years, or pursue a PhD?

The point is, there are a lot of things that are not Biglaw that you can only be freed from financially with scholarship, so it would be nice to keep that or working for a small law firm, or business, or whatever, as options rather than the Biglaw/renter's rights binary equation that you are forced into when you take on 180k of debt. It is still involuntary servitude when you have no choice but to do it in order to pay off debts. There is no reason to chain yourself down at all in this scenario.

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IzziesGal
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby IzziesGal » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:24 am

kurama20 wrote: You really shouldn't get attached to school outside of HYS if that's an option.


I disagree with this entirely. There are PLENTY of valid reasons to get attached to the other schools in the T14 (Gtown if one has a strong interest in political work, Chicago if one has hopes of settling there, Berkeley if someone just felt more comfortable there and fell in love with the clinics or something else, etc). Just saying that the other 11 or so schools actually do have something to offer, and happiness does exist beyond HYS.

That being said, I would probably choose the full scholarship and summer stipend at Penn....it may not be California, but in 2012, you'll have zero debt and more freedom to choose a career you care about because of it. Good luck and congrats on such an amazing scholly there!!

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worldtraveler
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby worldtraveler » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:04 am

It seems they are not matching full rides, and there is probably a reason why. If they have to throw full rides at a few people, they will run out of money quickly. They might have a strategy to throw smaller amounts of matching money at people who have lesser scholarships, hoping to get a large number of them to commit to Berkeley. As these people probably have stats not all that different from people like teachlearn or prelaw, it's a good strategy from Berkeley's side.

I can see how you would be incredibly bummed out, but you have a free ride to an awesome school. I wouldn't take this decision as a personal offense or see at as that your application wasn't as awesome as those that did get matched. It sounds more like Penn thinks you're so damn awesome and doing so much to woo you that Berkeley sees it as pointless to compete. That speaks pretty highly about the quality of your accomplishments.

Take the Penn money and run. Anything you could do from Berkeley you could do just as well coming from Penn, only you're not worrying about money, ever.

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DavidMorales
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby DavidMorales » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:21 am

Have you applied for financial aid at Boalt? I've heard of this happening a few times before: denied matching scholarship, followed up by big grant from FA. If Boalt is giving you 0 then I'd probably take the Penn offer, I was previously going on the assumption that you had 40-60% grant from boalt.

Also PI is huge at Boalt, i've never been to a school where more students were dedicated towards social change and I've, for a different perspective, found boalt to be the nicest school i've dealt with over these last few months.

arrrrrr!
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby arrrrrr! » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:26 am

you know you can't turn down the money at penn...

Pumpkin
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby Pumpkin » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:43 am

teachlearn wrote:p.s. Does it matter that I am most likely doing PI work and Berkeley has a great repayment program?


the big catch with their LRAP is that it maxes out at 100k- so if you have to pay full tuition, you'll be responsible for whatever you take out over that, which is a huge bummer.

i know how you feel, i turned down the school i was sure i'd go to b/c i felt totally blown off by them with regards to scholarships. hard to plunk down that much money when they don't seem to care if you go or not

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TheNerdProject
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby TheNerdProject » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:52 am

teachlearn wrote:p.s. Would it be stupid to turn down basically a full ride to Penn/summer stipend each summer? I don't know if I can do it.

Go where the money's at if you can't win the appeal. Sorry about Berkeley but CONGRATS on the full ride + stipend at Penn!

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teachlearn
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby teachlearn » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:54 am

Thanks again guys. A couple told me that Berkeley's PI program is far superior to Penn's. Do you guys think this is true? Does Boalt open any doors that Penn wouldn't?

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mllerustad
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby mllerustad » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:56 am

teachlearn wrote:Thanks again guys. A couple told me that Berkeley's PI program is far superior to Penn's. Do you guys think this is true? Does Boalt open any doors that Penn wouldn't?


Given Penn's pro bono requirement for graduation, I'm not sure how they'd come to that conclusion. Surely if Penn requires all students to do PI work in order to graduate, they consider it a priority...

hegemonhobbes23
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby hegemonhobbes23 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:57 am

I would say this: Acting out of spite doesn't help you. The people that did not match your scholarship are not the same people that will be your professors, or your peers. They are not the same people that will define your next three years or your legal education.

You should follow your gut. Do you have other options like Columbia?

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southernlady
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby southernlady » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:06 am

Jay Obee wrote:
teachlearn wrote:p.s. Does it matter that I am most likely doing PI work and Berkeley has a great repayment program?


Not when UPenn has a better prepayment program.

Zing!

In all seriousness, I also loved loved Berkeley going into this. However, I have yet to hear from them about my matching scholarship despite the fact that they know I have a deadline for a big scholarship at Chicago tomorrow. We might get all caught up in the intangibles during this process, and TLS pushes some schools (like Berk) far more than others. In the end, you are just going to school to get a great education, and this is a business decision and an investment. When you have fairly comparable financial aid offers, by all means decide based on fit. In your case, go to Penn. Once the realities of debt set in, you will be kicking yourself if you are at Berkeley. We can really all be happy anywhere with a positive attitude! And you will resent your SO if s/he pressures you into taking on unnecessary debt. Tell him/her to buck up and eat a cheesesteak.

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teachlearn
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby teachlearn » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:10 am

southernlady wrote:
Jay Obee wrote:
teachlearn wrote:p.s. Does it matter that I am most likely doing PI work and Berkeley has a great repayment program?


Not when UPenn has a better prepayment program.

Zing!

In all seriousness, I also loved loved Berkeley going into this. However, I have yet to hear from them about my matching scholarship despite the fact that they know I have a deadline for a big scholarship at Chicago tomorrow. We might get all caught up in the intangibles during this process, and TLS pushes some schools (like Berk) far more than others. In the end, you are just going to school to get a great education, and this is a business decision and an investment. When you have fairly comparable financial aid offers, by all means decide based on fit. In your case, go to Penn. Once the realities of debt set in, you will be kicking yourself if you are at Berkeley. We can really all be happy anywhere with a positive attitude! And you will resent your SO if s/he pressures you into taking on unnecessary debt. Tell him/her to buck up and eat a cheesesteak.



Hahahaha. I wish it were that easy. Shut em up with a cheesesteak. At this point, it's like, whatever I do one of us will resent each other. Ugh.

Does anyone have experience with LRAP? What would be the difference between a scholly and LRAP, assuming that my debt at berkeley would be around 105k. I know the cap would be 100k, so I would have to pay 5k more. Besides paying a portion of it if I earn over 60k my firrst year out, is there any real difference between that and a scholarship? Am I missing something about this.

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE.

Pumpkin
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby Pumpkin » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:17 am

hegemonhobbes23 wrote:I would say this: Acting out of spite doesn't help you. The people that did not match your scholarship are not the same people that will be your professors, or your peers. They are not the same people that will define your next three years or your legal education.

You should follow your gut. Do you have other options like Columbia?



I don't think it's spite to not go somewhere b/c you didn't feel treated well- like HA berkeley i'll show you. I just think that if you choose the school that offers you nothing, it places a lot more pressure on your experience to be AMAZING b/c in the back of your head you know you could have gone somewhere else that would probably also be cool for free.

that being said, i agree berkeley is a cooler school than penn so it really is up to you.

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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby kurama20 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:23 am

kurama20 wrote:
You really shouldn't get attached to school outside of HYS if that's an option.


I disagree with this entirely. There are PLENTY of valid reasons to get attached to the other schools in the T14 (Gtown if one has a strong interest in political work, Chicago if one has hopes of settling there, Berkeley if someone just felt more comfortable there and fell in love with the clinics or something else, etc). Just saying that the other 11 or so schools actually do have something to offer, and happiness does exist beyond HYS.


I meant that you shouldn't get attached to a school outside of HYS when you have another top 14 school with a full scholarship. When you put things into perspective and you start thinking about the power that debt can have over your life it just doesn't make sense to be so attached to one school that you are willing to go into massive debt when you have a peer school that has given you a full scholarship. I'm sorry but the notion that I like NYU because of the "feel" and "style" so I'm going to take it at sticker over a full scholarship at say UVA is borderline ridiculous. A lot of us younger posters have this immature perspective that debt is not that big of a deal and that you should always go with your gut. I hate to say it but for a lot of people under 30 their "gut" doesn't know what the hell it's talking about. That's all I'm trying to say. Not that it's HYS or bust. It's just that those are the only schools worth considering at sticker price when you have a full scholarship at a top 14, and notice I said considering.

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TheNerdProject
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby TheNerdProject » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:23 am

southernlady wrote:
Jay Obee wrote:
teachlearn wrote:p.s. Does it matter that I am most likely doing PI work and Berkeley has a great repayment program?


Not when UPenn has a better prepayment program.

Zing!

In all seriousness, I also loved loved Berkeley going into this. However, I have yet to hear from them about my matching scholarship despite the fact that they know I have a deadline for a big scholarship at Chicago tomorrow. We might get all caught up in the intangibles during this process, and TLS pushes some schools (like Berk) far more than others. In the end, you are just going to school to get a great education, and this is a business decision and an investment. When you have fairly comparable financial aid offers, by all means decide based on fit. In your case, go to Penn. Once the realities of debt set in, you will be kicking yourself if you are at Berkeley. We can really all be happy anywhere with a positive attitude! And you will resent your SO if s/he pressures you into taking on unnecessary debt. Tell him/her to buck up and eat a cheesesteak.

And he might resent you later on when your quality of life takes a significant dip because of all that debt (almost $200k if you're OOS), even with LRAP. He might even say, "Why did you listen to me? Don't you know I'm loco?"

Fun and games aside, Penn is the way to go. Practically zero debt (I'm guessing you'll still need stafford loans for living expenses) + a degree from a top-ranked school with a pro bono requirement + a city that needs/demands PI-minded lawyers/public servants = the right choice.

FWIW, I picked the school that gave me money over my dream school (Chicago). Someone else on this board picked a UVA full ride over Berkeley and they really wanted to go to Berkeley. It's hard to let go once you get attached to a school and envision what life will be like there and what your future will be like, but hard decisions are part of life.

On another note, you must be pretty amazing to get a full ride + stipend from Penn. Congrats again and GL!
Last edited by TheNerdProject on Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:24 am

teachlearn wrote:I was denied matching aid at Berkeley. I wrote an extra statement, sent a whole packet in, even contacted a Dean at Berkeley who had been really supportive of me during this whole process, and she sent in a letter for me. Then got basically a form letter saying no. Did this happen to anyone else? I have a huge scholly from Penn, and I was sure that I would get something.

I'm sorry to be obnoxious because I know Penn was a great school, but I really had my heart set on Berkeley. I was on the train when I found out, and I just started sobbing because I was so disappointed. It was embarrassing as shit and only made a bad situation worse.

Do you think there is any way to appeal this? I am planning to call the Dean tomorrow and just express my sadness and ask for her advice.

p.s. Would it be stupid to turn down basically a full ride to Penn/summer stipend each summer? I don't know if I can do it.

Same situation. Going to school that offered money.

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TheNerdProject
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby TheNerdProject » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:25 am

Kohinoor wrote:
teachlearn wrote:I was denied matching aid at Berkeley. I wrote an extra statement, sent a whole packet in, even contacted a Dean at Berkeley who had been really supportive of me during this whole process, and she sent in a letter for me. Then got basically a form letter saying no. Did this happen to anyone else? I have a huge scholly from Penn, and I was sure that I would get something.

I'm sorry to be obnoxious because I know Penn was a great school, but I really had my heart set on Berkeley. I was on the train when I found out, and I just started sobbing because I was so disappointed. It was embarrassing as shit and only made a bad situation worse.

Do you think there is any way to appeal this? I am planning to call the Dean tomorrow and just express my sadness and ask for her advice.

p.s. Would it be stupid to turn down basically a full ride to Penn/summer stipend each summer? I don't know if I can do it.

Same situation. Going to school that offered money.

This is the guy I'm talking about two posts above!

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kurama20
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby kurama20 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:30 am

In all seriousness, I also loved loved Berkeley going into this. However, I have yet to hear from them about my matching scholarship despite the fact that they know I have a deadline for a big scholarship at Chicago tomorrow. We might get all caught up in the intangibles during this process, and TLS pushes some schools (like Berk) far more than others. In the end, you are just going to school to get a great education, and this is a business decision and an investment. When you have fairly comparable financial aid offers, by all means decide based on fit. In your case, go to Penn. Once the realities of debt set in, you will be kicking yourself if you are at Berkeley. We can really all be happy anywhere with a positive attitude! And you will resent your SO if s/he pressures you into taking on unnecessary debt. Tell him/her to buck up and eat a cheesesteak.


TITCR

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teachlearn
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby teachlearn » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:31 am

TheNerdProject wrote:
southernlady wrote:
Jay Obee wrote:
teachlearn wrote:p.s. Does it matter that I am most likely doing PI work and Berkeley has a great repayment program?


Not when UPenn has a better prepayment program.

Zing!

In all seriousness, I also loved loved Berkeley going into this. However, I have yet to hear from them about my matching scholarship despite the fact that they know I have a deadline for a big scholarship at Chicago tomorrow. We might get all caught up in the intangibles during this process, and TLS pushes some schools (like Berk) far more than others. In the end, you are just going to school to get a great education, and this is a business decision and an investment. When you have fairly comparable financial aid offers, by all means decide based on fit. In your case, go to Penn. Once the realities of debt set in, you will be kicking yourself if you are at Berkeley. We can really all be happy anywhere with a positive attitude! And you will resent your SO if s/he pressures you into taking on unnecessary debt. Tell him/her to buck up and eat a cheesesteak.

And he might resent you later on when your quality of life takes a significant dip because of all that debt (almost $200k if you're OOS), even with LRAP. He might even say, "Why did you listen to me? Don't you know I'm loco?"

Fun and games aside, Penn is the way to go. Practically zero debt (I'm guessing you'll still need stafford loans for living expenses) + a degree from a top-ranked school with a pro bono requirement + a city that needs/demands PI-minded lawyers/public servants = the right choice.

FWIW, I picked the school that gave me money over my dream school (Chicago). Someone else on this board picked a UVA full ride over Berkeley and they really wanted to go to Berkeley. It's hard to let go once you get attached to a school and envision what life will be like there and what your future will be like, but hard decisions are part of life.

On another note, you must be pretty amazing to get a full ride + scholly from Penn. Congrats again and GL!



Thanks again everybody. I really appreciate your opinions.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:32 am

teachlearn wrote:
southernlady wrote:
Jay Obee wrote:
teachlearn wrote:p.s. Does it matter that I am most likely doing PI work and Berkeley has a great repayment program?


Not when UPenn has a better prepayment program.

Zing!

In all seriousness, I also loved loved Berkeley going into this. However, I have yet to hear from them about my matching scholarship despite the fact that they know I have a deadline for a big scholarship at Chicago tomorrow. We might get all caught up in the intangibles during this process, and TLS pushes some schools (like Berk) far more than others. In the end, you are just going to school to get a great education, and this is a business decision and an investment. When you have fairly comparable financial aid offers, by all means decide based on fit. In your case, go to Penn. Once the realities of debt set in, you will be kicking yourself if you are at Berkeley. We can really all be happy anywhere with a positive attitude! And you will resent your SO if s/he pressures you into taking on unnecessary debt. Tell him/her to buck up and eat a cheesesteak.



Hahahaha. I wish it were that easy. Shut em up with a cheesesteak. At this point, it's like, whatever I do one of us will resent each other. Ugh.

Does anyone have experience with LRAP? What would be the difference between a scholly and LRAP, assuming that my debt at berkeley would be around 105k. I know the cap would be 100k, so I would have to pay 5k more. Besides paying a portion of it if I earn over 60k my firrst year out, is there any real difference between that and a scholarship? Am I missing something about this.

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE.

If I were you, I would do whatever will give you the most options after graduating. In this case, that would be Penn. It's awesome that you're interested in PI work, but interests change. Three years down the road you may want to work at a low paying gig that doesn't qualify as public interest, and if you go to Berkeley you'll be screwed, whereas if you go to Penn you should be okay.

Hypothetically, I'd take the money and run. If I were actually in your situation (which, thank god, I'm not) I would probably go to Berkeley, because I'm single minded like that.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby Kohinoor » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:37 am

TheNerdProject wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
teachlearn wrote:I was denied matching aid at Berkeley. I wrote an extra statement, sent a whole packet in, even contacted a Dean at Berkeley who had been really supportive of me during this whole process, and she sent in a letter for me. Then got basically a form letter saying no. Did this happen to anyone else? I have a huge scholly from Penn, and I was sure that I would get something.

I'm sorry to be obnoxious because I know Penn was a great school, but I really had my heart set on Berkeley. I was on the train when I found out, and I just started sobbing because I was so disappointed. It was embarrassing as shit and only made a bad situation worse.

Do you think there is any way to appeal this? I am planning to call the Dean tomorrow and just express my sadness and ask for her advice.

p.s. Would it be stupid to turn down basically a full ride to Penn/summer stipend each summer? I don't know if I can do it.

Same situation. Going to school that offered money.

This is the guy I'm talking about two posts above!

Yeah... UVA was a very hard choice and that's even with friends from my undergrad trying to pull me there whereas I knew nobody at Berkeley. The B is awesome but 140k+ is alot of money. The only reason I would regret my choice is if I can't get a San Fran job in 3 years.

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jessicaw
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby jessicaw » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:47 am

Berkeley was my first choice, and at the start of this whole process, i was just dreeeaming of Boalt. Then they denied my matching aid request, and I withdrew in favor of full tuition elsewhere.

GO WITH THE $$ !

tobey2
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Re: Denied Matching Aid at Berkeley

Postby tobey2 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:54 am

my response is completely and unabashedly selfish -- go to penn and withdraw from berkeley, do your part to get me off that berkeley waitlist! :)

but seriously - penn was my first choice, and i am 100% committed to PI work. they have a great PI program, good LRAP, good summer stipends for PI work, and interesting clinical opportunities. unfortunately, i wasn't their #1 choice. or their #4957498573 choice. if i hadn't been rejected, they'd have my deposit money already.

good luck!




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