Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby iagolives » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:49 am

pinkflamingo wrote:edit: Also, can I just say how funny it was the Yale called people this weekend?


Yeah, I laughed when I heard that. It reminded me of when Slugworth tried to persuade Charlie Bucket in that dark alley to get him a gobstopper as he was running home with the golden ticket.


...Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks in kid movie analogies... :(

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constellationx
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby constellationx » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:55 am

pinkflamingo wrote:For some reason my group just really didn't like the model...or the Yankee.


Hmmm... I think we were in the same group. Also, I agree with your overall impression of Harvard. I enjoyed the weekend and can see myself finding my niche at HLS. I'm just sorry that I missed this infamous sketchy bar!

Pumpkin
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby Pumpkin » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:18 am

i'm still on the fence. i liked it better than i thought i would but even with my mug and tote bag, i'm not entirely sold. i think i have two main issues. the first is what people here have already described, the idea of falling through the cracks and having to be uber motivated to make use of all the resources and get connected to professors. i don't think i'm as driven as a lot of the people who'll be going to h and wonder if this sort of set up will bite me in the ass.

and my second related point, is that i want to go to a great law school so that i can get a really interesting, cool job within public interest. i don't want to make partner, be president, or be a supreme court clerk and i don't want my job to be my life. (i think someone posted on the harvard 2012 thread about this). so i almost wonder if my going to harvard given these goals is similar to those people i can't stand who get super heavyduty off roading SUVs and then only use them to drive around town.

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excitedutterance
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby excitedutterance » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:20 am

pinkflamingo wrote:
KP429 wrote:
pinkflamingo wrote:kill the model.

??
For some reason my group just really didn't like the model...or the Yankee.


Haha. Were these people from the exercise at the very beginning of ASW that I missed because of my flight? Or people in your group, or just people you decided not to like from across the room? All are acceptable forms of judgment.

I feel extra lame that I didn't make much of an effort to find anyone from here (except Frenchie, to no avail!). I really didn't go too far out of my way to meet people this weekend, for which I'm annoyed with myself, but many of the people I did meet were really, really great.

I had more or less already made up my mind about coming to Harvard, but this weekend didn't hurt at all. I really enjoyed the school and the city. Plus I missed out on the sketchy bar because HLS Lambda was perhaps the only group that never went there, so I have yet to experience the greatness of Tommy Doyle's. I'm sure this past weekend might have been a misleadingly bad one, as I've heard they're having some sort of annual d-bag convention in Boston today.

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby iagolives » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:24 am

Pumpkin wrote:i'm still on the fence. i liked it better than i thought i would but even with my mug and tote bag, i'm not entirely sold. i think i have two main issues. the first is what people here have already described, the idea of falling through the cracks and having to be uber motivated to make use of all the resources and get connected to professors. i don't think i'm as driven as a lot of the people who'll be going to h and wonder if this sort of set up will bite me in the ass.

and my second related point, is that i want to go to a great law school so that i can get a really interesting, cool job within public interest. i don't want to make partner, be president, or be a supreme court clerk and i don't want my job to be my life. (i think someone posted on the harvard 2012 thread about this). so i almost wonder if my going to harvard given these goals is similar to those people i can't stand who get super heavyduty off roading SUVs and then only use them to drive around town.


PM me for more info pumpkin but, from the students I talked to away from the relative glam of the ASW, there are a lot of people who don't want law to be their life and are fine with doing the best they can and feeling good about it. Granted, there are a lot who want those incredibly hard-to-get jobs and those are the ones they naturally bring out to woo students, but its by far everyone from the vibe I got.

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FrenchiePatootie
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby FrenchiePatootie » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:43 am

I really enjoyed the weekend overall. One of my biggest fears was size. I do like knowing many people and being in a close-knit community but I think the 80-people section might help me forge some alliances/lasting friendships as well as the reading groups (though I'm not sure those are mandatory). That said, I'll comment in terms of +s and -s.

AWESOME STUFF:

Faculty: As we all saw, some of these profs are just really dynamic/engaging and for me that's a plus. They care about what they're teaching and that's makes me care even more. The offices also made a huge effort to let us they were available and to be welcoming.

Negotiation Clinic and Program: Good selling point for me. I remember mentioning my interest in my ps and behold, a sign of the law school gods, first night was all about that. I absolutely loved Prof. Bodone (I think that was his name) and if I choose HLS, I will definitely plan on joining.

Students: Most seemed normal, and that exceeded my expectations. None from NV though, exc. for me =[

Cambridge/Boston: Aside from rent, food and other commodities did not seem excessively priced. I liked that you could walk or take public transport everywhere. That definitely gave it a European tone. Speaking of which, having lots of family across the Atlantic, it would be waaaaaay cheaper to visit from Boston. I liked that there is culture there (not much of that here). Cambridge (well H Square at least) was also surprisingly vibrant, even late, which is awesome. Lots of interracial couples and cute accents. Yay!

Harvard: Really, really, broad curriculum. I chose to visit the IP class and while I can now conclude that IP might be kinda dull for me, I have to mention that the prof. was very nice in answering all the students' questions without making them look/feel dumb. Excellent network/faculty, number one at lots of stuff, blablabla, nothing we didn't know before the visit lol

NOT SO AWESOME:

Weather: The high of the weekend was in the low 50s, which was the temperature in Reno at midnight when I landed. I will probably wear a tee all day today. Hmmm. This is going to be tough. I know for some people, this seems pretty lame but I do lack not having seasons ... or at least really mild winters. It's also harder to work out in the cold but I'll admit that underarmour can probably do the trick. And again, it's only three years right?

Cambridge/Boston: Urgh, the littering...what is with the littering?! I want people to care about where they live and use the trash cans made available at every corner for their convenience. Grrr.

CONCLUSION:
Visiting has made the idea of moving 3000 miles away from my comfort zone a little less frightening. :)

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pinkflamingo
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby pinkflamingo » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:44 am

iagolives wrote:
Pumpkin wrote:i'm still on the fence. i liked it better than i thought i would but even with my mug and tote bag, i'm not entirely sold. i think i have two main issues. the first is what people here have already described, the idea of falling through the cracks and having to be uber motivated to make use of all the resources and get connected to professors. i don't think i'm as driven as a lot of the people who'll be going to h and wonder if this sort of set up will bite me in the ass.

and my second related point, is that i want to go to a great law school so that i can get a really interesting, cool job within public interest. i don't want to make partner, be president, or be a supreme court clerk and i don't want my job to be my life. (i think someone posted on the harvard 2012 thread about this). so i almost wonder if my going to harvard given these goals is similar to those people i can't stand who get super heavyduty off roading SUVs and then only use them to drive around town.


PM me for more info pumpkin but, from the students I talked to away from the relative glam of the ASW, there are a lot of people who don't want law to be their life and are fine with doing the best they can and feeling good about it. Granted, there are a lot who want those incredibly hard-to-get jobs and those are the ones they naturally bring out to woo students, but its by far everyone from the vibe I got.


I agree with you, Iagolives. I met quite a few students who weren't trying to be partner by the time they're 30. I actually asked several 2Ls and 3Ls at my student organization dinner about having a life and a career (as I am concerned about this). The ones that I spoke with certainly wanted exciting and interesting legal careers, but also wanted to make sure that they had a balance. They believed that there was more to life than your job. I'm sure there are many HLS students who don't believe that (I met some), but it's not the entire student body.

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zabagabe
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby zabagabe » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:00 pm

Hey guys,

Ok, time for my dump. I only got to meet Iago - two of my best friends in life were in Boston for the weekend so my attendance was a little haphazard. If anyone's going to the Berkeley, Stanford or Yale ASWs, we definitely should meet up, but those are smaller anyway so it probably won't be as hard! Here are my rambling musings, and I apologize if this gets a little H vs. Y heavy - I had just come from Yale the day before so I guess this was my thought process for the weekend. Also, right off the bat, I do think there are tons of good reasons for HLS – I’m only sharing my opinion based on my needs/wants/desires from law school. :) (so don’t hate on me!)

Friday night my friends and I went out with an acquaintance at HLS and her 1L friends and I could not have been more disappointed. After spending Thursday night out with a bunch of drunk Yalies who didn't know me and could not have been nicer or more engaging, the HLS 1Ls really couldn't give a shit about me. No one seemed interested in talking to me, apart from one guy who actually told my friends that they "don’t matter" since they weren't admitted students, and then would only talk to me. Right off the bat I had a bad impression of HLS, esp. in comparison to my wonderful night out with the Yalies the night before. The contrast was striking (So was the acquaintance’s loud, drunken lament when she heard I got into Yale – she seemed very convinced that automatically doomed my chances of going to HLS).

I thought the exercise on Saturday was kind of lame. Maybe because I've done it like 10 times before (either in ethics/morality type classes or for RA interviews and training exercises), but I just thought it was sort of a bad example of negotiation. I didn't care who died, since they were pieces of paper, and if we actually wanted to get into a discussion about justice and morality, then HLS' negotiation and resolution classes aren't going to be the best forum for that anyway (since unlike a real negotiation, no one had a preconceived stake in a particular outcome, so individual values and notions of morality were the crux of the interesting part of this discussion, not negotiation). It also felt very summer camp. I spent the night with my friends who "don't matter" so I didn't meet up with any HLS people on Sat night.

Sunday, I really liked the mock class and the Inside the Supreme Court class. Mind you, they picked two of their best lecturers, but both classes were extremely engaging. I had a great dinner out with the American Constitution Society, met a couple of great fellow admits (we engaged in like a 2-hour YHS comparison, haha), and a pretty helpful 2L. I actually had a lot of fun at Tommy Doyle's, all things considered. I went out a lot in undergrad though, and I've gone out a lot since, so I think my tolerance for sketchy bars is probably super high (for instance, none of the floors were sticky, so in my book, A+ for classiness!). My one complaint was the number of townies who took over the bar and made it hard to meet the actual Admitted Students. Oh, and I had an amazingly PATHETIC conversation with a current 2L that went something like this:

Her: So, what are you deciding between?
Me: Stanford, Berkeley, NYU, Harvard and Yale
Her: Well, eliminate S, B and N off the bat. That leaves you with H and Y.
Me: Uh...why off the bat? You don't know anything about me, where I'm from, or what I want to do.
Her: Because, for the rest of your life, you can say you went to H or Y. No other schools have that kind of reputation.
Me: Uh...buhbye!

Unfortunately, this was all-too-common over the course of the weekend. Another person I met, who I really liked, also said she picked HLS in part because "her family in Israel was much more impressed." SERIOUSLY? What cracks me up is that not a single person at Yale (apart from Dean Koh...) ever said they chose Yale or I should go to Yale because it's Yale, they all gave substantive reasons and acknowledged Yale isn't perfect for everyone (again, except for Koh). It is somewhat ironic that the students at the most prestigious school seem much less concerned with prestige than the students at the second most prestigious, and this was a big, general turn-off to me about HLS.

Monday was the class-crash, a talk on academia, and lunch. Not much to say about the first two, but I loved the lunch. I met the directors of both the war crimes clinic and the international human rights clinics (both are high up on my reasons for HLS). They were both extremely helpful and the clinics sound AMAZING, absolutely AMAZING. I stayed late and talked to both for a while one-on-one, and neither was making a hard sell for HLS, which I appreciated. One is a Yale alum and, well, he had nothing but great things to say about Yale. I'm torn about the clinics - the work they do is amazing and right up my alley, but with HLS's 1L required courses, inability to do clinics as a 1L, and the random lotteries that the Int'l Human Rights clinic uses to admit students, it feels like doing engaging clinical work at HLS isn't as easy. Further, I talked to the head of one of the student groups related to the clinics who has participated all three years and she basically said she had to blow off all her 1L classes in order to find time for the clinics (b/c while you can do them as a 1L, you don't get any credit), and I'm not sure I would want to have to do that either. She was 100% sure she wanted to be a human rights practitioner, so clerkships and academia (and the requisite grades required for such things) didn’t matter at all to her. I don’t want to have to make such a choice, especially in 1L.

Overall, I think the “HLS is the NYC of law schools” seemed about right…but me personally, I don’t like NYC very much! It was striking to me that there were more people at our ASW than in an entire class at Chicago, Stanford or Yale, and about as many as at Berkeley. As much as I’m sure it gets claustrophobic at times, I think I would prefer the small school model. I don’t think it’s surprisingly the students at Yale were much more friendly and helpful than at Harvard – if I go there, they will actually become my friends and classmates next year, so they have a vested interest. At Harvard, I might never meet them again. I agree a bit with what one poster earlier said – if you have no idea what you want to do, Harvard will give you a very fine legal education, and I’m convinced on paper that education is better than at Yale.

I also think the “old boy network” pervades Yale in a much more toxic way than Harvard, unfortunately, so I think for someone who is concerned about that it’s something to think about. Also, the larger faculty probably makes it easier to be sure you work with someone who works on your issues. However, I talked to a 2L at Yale who wanted to work with Jack Goldsmith and somewhat-reluctantly chose YLS despite this. He ended up doing a research assistantship with Goldsmith while at Yale anyway, which I think just speaks to the general resourcefulness of Yalies, haha!

Overall, apart from the clinics I discussed earlier and the generally stronger commitment to formal classroom instruction, nothing else was so appealing to me that I would want to pull the trigger at HLS, and I, at least, was turned off by a number of people I met. I’ve still got three more ASWs to go, but I didn’t leave Boston yesterday thinking I would be really sorry if I didn’t come back.

Anyway, I'm really sorry I didn’t get to meet more of you, and I would love to hear your thoughts as well! :)
Last edited by zabagabe on Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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treple
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby treple » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:13 pm

zabagabe wrote: It is somewhat ironic that the students at the most prestigious school seem much less concerned with prestige than the students at the second most prestigious, and this was a big, general turn-off to me about HLS.


Good post. Minus this. The idea that one is more prestigious than the other is absurd. Unless USNEWS is now a prestigiometer.

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby iagolives » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:45 pm

Wow, Zab. Sorry you had such a negative experience. Thanks for sharing; I hope a lot of this is more a few bad apples spoiling the bunch than anything else but who knows. Did anyone else have a similar experience?

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zabagabe
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby zabagabe » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:00 pm

treple wrote:
zabagabe wrote: It is somewhat ironic that the students at the most prestigious school seem much less concerned with prestige than the students at the second most prestigious, and this was a big, general turn-off to me about HLS.


Good post. Minus this. The idea that one is more prestigious than the other is absurd. Unless USNEWS is now a prestigiometer.


I think there are a lot of non-USNEWS reasons to think Yale is more prestigious than Harvard (acceptance rate, academia and clerkship success rates, etc.), but regardless, my point remains: Harvard kids were much more obsessed with their own prestige than Yale kids were. It was striking.

And Frenchie, I totally agree with you about east coast weather. I flew to San Fran last night and it was a balmy and wonderful when I landed. Three years of long underwear just to tolerate the walk to class is a bit hard to swallow!! ;)

ccw1234
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby ccw1234 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:03 pm

I wouldn't say I had a completely similar experience to Zagababe's, but the concern about HLS being so big that it separates the truly ambitious/on-top-of-their-sh*t people from somewhat lost people like msyelf definitely freaked me out on the second day. I'd break it up like this:

First day: I enjoyed the Negotiation thing. Some people were a little full of themselves, but for the most part, I really enjoyed hearing other people's points-of-views. My boyfriend and I then went out to dinner with a bunch of potential classmates, and had a great time. I was feeling very bullish on HLS.

Second day: Between the back-to-back-to-back-to-back panels, I was overwhelmed, and started to feel like b/c I personally don't know exactly what I want out of law school, I might be edged out of opportunities by those who know what they want and are determined to get it. Maybe that's a bit defeatist or unfair, but I ended up just doing my own thing at night which was probably good for my head. Also, I was unimpressed by Dean Jackson's evasive answers to pressing (albeit tough!) questions.

Third day: Really liked my Con Law class, and the lunch with professors. Dean Jackson redeemed himself by establishing that HLS actually has a ton of small classes and other great opportunities, and I felt like my concern about not being able to get involved as actively as I might want was probably premature. Anyways, I am definitely torn between my choices, but just wanted to repeat that I loved meeting everyone I did, and would like to have you all as future classmates!

Though if now, you all think that I am a bipolar weirdo, you're probably not far off. Ugh, I just wish it was May 1st already.

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FrenchiePatootie
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby FrenchiePatootie » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:04 pm

zabagabe wrote:
treple wrote:
zabagabe wrote: It is somewhat ironic that the students at the most prestigious school seem much less concerned with prestige than the students at the second most prestigious, and this was a big, general turn-off to me about HLS.


Good post. Minus this. The idea that one is more prestigious than the other is absurd. Unless USNEWS is now a prestigiometer.


I think there are a lot of non-USNEWS reasons to think Yale is more prestigious than Harvard (acceptance rate, academia and clerkship success rates, etc.), but regardless, my point remains: Harvard kids were much more obsessed with their own prestige than Yale kids were. It was striking.

And Frenchie, I totally agree with you about east coast weather. I flew to San Fran last night and it was a balmy and wonderful when I landed. Three years of long underwear just to tolerate the walk to class is a bit hard to swallow!! ;)


wait a minute i flew to san fran lol were you on the plane that landed 40 minutes late?

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zabagabe
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby zabagabe » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:23 pm

FrenchiePatootie wrote:
wait a minute i flew to san fran lol were you on the plane that landed 40 minutes late?


I was on a Virgin America flight that landed around 10ish. Not sure if it was late or early because I was absorbed in March Madness bracketology stuff on ESPN the whole flight back! :)

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mightyaphrodite
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby mightyaphrodite » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:24 pm

OK, I was looking around to see if people had/would post their experiences somewhere on the interwebs so I'm glad I found this thread. I don't generally post here, but maybe what I have to say will be helpful to others. Also to give a bit of perspective, I'm not straight out of UG and I'm married so while I love being social and meeting new people, I'm definitely not looking to remake UG (plus, I don't know if my liver could handle that :D). I came into the ASW not expecting too much and I came away liking Harvard a lot more than I anticipated I would.

Positives:
1. Size: Yes, I realize that people usually cite this as a negative. However, I didn't feel that the roughly 300 people at this ASW represented way too many people, nor do I think that a roughly 1500 person school would be too big. To put it in perspective, I'm sure many of us went to high schools around that size (if not bigger than that) and certainly didn't feel nameless or faceless. In fact, I rather enjoyed the fact that I got to meet a lot of different people with varied interests.

2. Mock class/Topics in Law: Elizabeth Warren is amazing. Other 2Ls and 3Ls I spoke with later mentioned that she is a tough teacher, but I think getting the experience of what the socratic method is all about made it far less scary (also, if you were the guy who kept raising his hand when she was clearly just going to call on people, please stop. It was kind of rude and your future classmates won't appreciate that gunnerism). The Inside the Supreme Court discussion was also incredibly fascinating. It seems like those two are gems among the faculty, but then people I knew in other sessions also found their sessions quite interesting too. This all leads to...

3. Quality/accessibility of the faculty: There wasn't one faculty member with whom I spoke who wasn't completely open, honest, friendly, and willing to speak with students in depth on issues. Despite the size of HLS, I think that Dean Kagan's tenure has done wonders in terms of making HLS a friendly, approachable place from professors down to students. One of the professors from the lunch on Monday graciously invited me to her clinical class later in the afternoon because I'd mentioned being interested in the topics on which she was an expert. I was also quite impressed with the broad range of topics on which HLS had faculty members. To me, this gives a sense that not only can one study a broad range of subject matters, but also there is significant possibility one can study a particular subject in depth too.

4. Other admitted students: One of the reasons I wasn't gung ho about Harvard to start is that maybe I harbor some secret public school stereotypes about Ivy League-type students. I was terrified I'd just find horribly socially awkward people who were total gunners and generally unpleasant. This wasn't the case at all. With a couple of previously mentioned examples (the hand raiser and the "who are we to play God" woman from the negotiation exercise), most people were pretty good about keeping it pleasant and just having a good time. I was also impressed by the quality of the other students there (which sounds stupid, but whatevs) -- I really could see what Dean Jackson was talking about at lunch on Monday when he mentioned the next generation of leaders will likely come from Harvard based upon past results just from the few years when he attended the law school.

5. Cambridge: I went to school in a village area that was a small part of a huge city. I could appreciate that same vibe about Cambridge as it relates to Boston. The people just around the town were extremely friendly and nice and I found the town to be so cute. I like that it's a walking city and that people take public transportation. It's not that fun when it gets windy and cold (see, Monday), but otherwise it was great. I also think there's a little bit of something for everyone in Cambridge -- if you're a remaking UG type, there are things to do. If you're looking for a different kind of experience, that's also possible.


Drawbacks:

1. Financial aid: I don't think that going to the financial aid panel right before the weekend concluded was the best idea. Realizing just how much debt I'd need to go into to attend Harvard made me ill. It does seem like they do want to work with students and the LIPP seems pretty generous but front-loading the debt especially IN THIS ECONOMY is nerve-wracking.

Random asides: Objection, I met you on Sunday morning at breakfast and that was pretty interesting :) Glad to meet you! Sorry I didn't out myself at the table to you though. Also, ccw it was great to meet you and your boyfriend. I am glad I turned out to be as normal as you'd hoped when you first sat down :wink:

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Objection
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby Objection » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:28 pm

I strongly disagree with a lot of what was said here. I'm in the airport now but I'll type up an unnecessarily long post on the plane and post it when I get to the hotel in Michigan (or on my layover, depending on the cost of internet and how much I get done).

I will also review each of the tlsers I met. Muahaha.

Edit: I do agree with a lot of what mighty said. Who were you? PM me!

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zabagabe
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby zabagabe » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:37 pm

I'm glad you guys had better interactions with the students than I did. Maybe I just got a bad couple of apples, but it definitely tainted my experience as a result. Definitely interested to hear your thoughts, Obj (and perhaps thankful I didn't get to meet you afterall, haha!). :)

ccw1234
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby ccw1234 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:40 pm

Hmm... I worry I have incurred the wrath of the all-powerful Objection (kidding!), as he is known at HLS ASW.

Seriously though, thanks to Objection for providing me with a lot of reasons to attend HLS, which I'm sure he will spout here, and to mighty for being AWESOME.

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mightyaphrodite
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby mightyaphrodite » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:44 pm

zabagabe wrote:I'm glad you guys had better interactions with the students than I did. Maybe I just got a bad couple of apples, but it definitely tainted my experience as a result. Definitely interested to hear your thoughts, Obj (and perhaps thankful I didn't get to meet you afterall, haha!). :)


Maybe it was different for me because I'm not a Yale admit, so I didn't get the same pressure you did :) But I will say that your post did remind me that one thing I didn't like was that there was almost an assumption on the part of HLS students/faculty (as well as other admitted students) that there really isn't a good reason aside from maybe Yale to not attend HLS. Perhaps that's just the general part of law school prestige whoring and all that, but it can be sort of grating.

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pinkflamingo
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby pinkflamingo » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:45 pm

mightyaphrodite wrote:4. Other admitted students: One of the reasons I wasn't gung ho about Harvard to start is that maybe I harbor some secret public school stereotypes about Ivy League-type students. I was terrified I'd just find horribly socially awkward people who were total gunners and generally unpleasant. This wasn't the case at all. With a couple of previously mentioned examples (the hand raiser and the "who are we to play God" woman from the negotiation exercise), most people were pretty good about keeping it pleasant and just having a good time. I was also impressed by the quality of the other students there (which sounds stupid, but whatevs) -- I really could see what Dean Jackson was talking about at lunch on Monday when he mentioned the next generation of leaders will likely come from Harvard based upon past results just from the few years when he attended the law school.:

Ok, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who went into the weekend harboring these kind of stereotypes. I was expecting to be a bit uncomfortable, coming from nothing but public schools. I too was pleasantly surprised!

Zabagabe: I think I may have met you briefly at dinner. Hopefully I wasn't one of those bad apples! Were you sitting to the left of the Yale undergrad?

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FrenchiePatootie
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby FrenchiePatootie » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:47 pm

zabagabe wrote:
FrenchiePatootie wrote:
wait a minute i flew to san fran lol were you on the plane that landed 40 minutes late?


I was on a Virgin America flight that landed around 10ish. Not sure if it was late or early because I was absorbed in March Madness bracketology stuff on ESPN the whole flight back! :)


oh i was on united never mind =]
but yeah good thoughts mighty and yes, i noticed the guy with the hand that just KEPT creeping up in Warren's class
it was almost like on talladega nights...
anywho i must admit that i was afraid i'd get an inferiority complex from the ivyleaguers but those i met were great and very friendly so that was reassuring

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zabagabe
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby zabagabe » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:03 pm

pinkflamingo wrote:
Zabagabe: I think I may have met you briefly at dinner. Hopefully I wasn't one of those bad apples! Were you sitting to the left of the Yale undergrad?


Pink, I was sitting at the very far end of the table closest to the door. Do you mean the guy who was a 2L and had gone to Yale? If so, yes! Who were you? And no, definitely not - everyone I met at the dinner was great. :)

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Cartwright4
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby Cartwright4 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:07 pm

Interestingly enough, my experience was roughly the opposite of zabagabe's! I found Yale really stifling and LOVED the atmosphere at Harvard.

I was at Yale for the Monday sneak peek. While some of the people there were really nice, the majority struck me as very pretentious and somewhat arrogant, not to mention from similar ivy league backgrounds. Our very first session with Dean Rangappa was dominated by this 3L, who despite being somewhat well-intentioned, was a complete caricature of a Yale law student. In between mentioning his summers at Wachtell AND Cravath (but of course, he's not into that scene so now he's going to work for a senator from Colorado), he also mentioned how handsome and charming he was (I kid you not!). My assigned "student buddy" was also similarly full of himself and spoke about other schools, especially Columbia, in a really condescending way. The classes were also kind of ridiculous; it was like they took the Paper Chase Socratic extreme and swung it WAY too far the other way, where the professor is peripheral, teaches no law, and the students all just talk about their PhD's from Oxford. The whole thing struck me as intellectually masturbatory, and the fact that it's so small and New Haven is such a shithole that you're confined to this world was tough for me to handle. I should say, however, that the dinner with faculty at night was great and I loved Dean Koh, who seems like a reallyyy nice guy (although him referring to Harvard as a large buffet and his outright dismissal of the Hamilton were a little extreme). But overall, Yale struck me a little too much like it's worst stereotype.

Harvard was completely different for me. I had the option to talk to a diverse array of people, not all of them from HYP doing legal academia like it essentially was at Yale. Yes, there were annoying, assholish people, but you could avoid them and find someone else. There didn't seem to be a set culture - more like the neighborhoods that the New York analogy alludes to. Also, the classes I went to were RIDICULOUSLY good, particularly the Supreme Court one which was just a treat. It was great to be able to stray off campus and interact with a great city too. The deep diversity of the school was something that really appealed to me and stood in stark contrast with Yale.

EDIT: I should perhaps qualify my criticisms about Yale after looking them over. There were only TEN admitted students there, and I only got to meet maybe a dozen current students so my sample set was pretty small. But those were still my observations pretty much. And I agree with zabagabe that the Harvard negotiation exercise was pretty ridiculous - it was good as an icebreaker but pretty absurd for the purposes of a law class.
Last edited by Cartwright4 on Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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pinkflamingo
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby pinkflamingo » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:09 pm

zabagabe wrote:
pinkflamingo wrote:
Zabagabe: I think I may have met you briefly at dinner. Hopefully I wasn't one of those bad apples! Were you sitting to the left of the Yale undergrad?


Pink, I was sitting at the very far end of the table closest to the door. Do you mean the guy who was a 2L and had gone to Yale? If so, yes! Who were you? And no, definitely not - everyone I met at the dinner was great. :)


Haha I think we may have very briefly introduced ourselves. I was sitting in the middle of the table, with my back to the exit. I was sitting in between a short, blonde 2L and a guy who was an admit (and currently working on his PhD I believe).

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JackieTreehorn
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby JackieTreehorn » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:19 pm

Zab, this is ridiculous--I sat next to you at the ACS dinner. Great conversation!

Anyway, I've got a lot to say about the weekend but I don't quite have time to type it all up now. Overall a positive experience.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I plan on making a detailed post later




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