Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

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SparkyLives
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby SparkyLives » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:04 pm

Objection wrote:And going back to the example of international law - Yale is essentially a TTT in international law compared to HLS. For anyone who has any interest in studying abroad, your only option is HLS.


Obviously I think you're exaggerating to make a point that Harvard>Yale in international law. No qualms with that particular point, but fwiw, my Yale buddy right now is choosing between Europe and Middle East for his summer 1L job. So the Yale = TTT is...a stretch.

Pumpkin
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby Pumpkin » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:18 pm

did anyone else find the coffee mug logo "green is the new crimson" to be laughably pompous?! good mug though i'll admit

ccw1234
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby ccw1234 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:29 pm

Actually, I thought the mug logo was cute... I guess simple people simple pleasures on that one ;)

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Objection
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby Objection » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:31 pm

I was mad at the mug because it made packing up my suitcase ridiculously difficult. :lol:

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mightyaphrodite
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby mightyaphrodite » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:00 pm

ccw1234 wrote:Actually, I thought the mug logo was cute... I guess simple people simple pleasures on that one ;)


+1

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ndnlawdc
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby ndnlawdc » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:08 pm

Objection wrote:I was mad at the mug because it made packing up my suitcase ridiculously difficult. :lol:


Packing wasn't bad, but the mug got me an "enhanced screening" at Logan on my way home.

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby iagolives » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:17 pm

Objection wrote:I was mad at the mug because it made packing up my suitcase ridiculously difficult. :lol:


No, as someone who brought my own bag with me, the MESSENGER bag made packing more difficult.

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Objection
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby Objection » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:20 pm

iagolives wrote:
Objection wrote:I was mad at the mug because it made packing up my suitcase ridiculously difficult. :lol:


No, as someone who brought my own bag with me, the MESSENGER bag made packing more difficult.


The combo made it doubly difficult!

sluggo
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby sluggo » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:23 am

This was going to have to wait until Friday, but I shelled out the 10 bucks for internet at the Hyatt. Hey, I needed to go on craigslist and find an apartment :)

I don't feel the need to do as extensive a review as I might have because Objection did an excellent job. I'll offer my brief impression of the ASW and then put forward a few responses to some of the issues that have been discussed on the last couple of pages.

Overall, the ASW rocked. I'd give it a 9 out of 10 and I don't really give 10's. I guess I'll go in chronological order to help remember more of it.

The initial icebreaker was decent, and I could have handled a more involved/interesting exercise. I thought it was pretty LOL that some groups actually had holdouts, but then again some people just take themselves way too seriously. I liked the people in my group and thought that they were actually very shy and deferential.

The socializing that took place afterward was fantastic. It was interesting to see how different groups formed throughout the area between the Austin classrooms, but of the dozen or so people with whom I had conversations, I got along with all of them.

Dinner was excellent. Harvard has a fantastic burger joint about a 7 min walk southeast of their law school. Yale has an equally fantastic pizza place some (10-15?) minutes away from their law school. For all of the YvH nonsense on here, my personal advice would be to let the food guide you. Ok, back on track.

I talked to a Harvard 1L at dinner who was chill, friendly, and super open about answering all of my questions (I had a lot). Turns out later that he got straight H's this first semester, but obviously didn't mention that to me at dinner, even though I gave him several opportunities. The overall group we had (12 people or so) happened to be very friendly, outgoing and definitely not anything near the sort of stereotype I expected/feared when I showed up. I'll digress for a second: even though that's only 12 people out of the ~300 that showed up for the event, the fact that I was able to click with such a substantial number of people in the first hour of milling around is one reason why I'm excited about attending a "large" law school. If 20 percent of people are tools/gunners/jerks, then that absolute number will be larger at Harvard, sure. I think the more important point, however, is that the raw number of potential friends you have is larger too. As someone who's not afraid to introduce myself to other people and search out the people I'd like to meet, I think this is a clear plus.

Met up with some other friends who were in town for St Paddy's Day after dinner with some of the HLS people. Everyone gelled well which I really liked.

Breakfast was fairly legit on Sunday. The breakout session was good (academia/clerkships) but they should have given us the opportunity to visit 2 sessions, not just one. Small crumbs though, you don't really need to attend those sessions to find out information, it was all just stuff I had already learned through TLS and the internets.

As everyone had already said, the supreme court history presentation was great. So was the mock class (I had Sullivan). Obviously none of this matters too much because that's just 2 out of 95 professors or whatnot, and obviously they're going to choose very good ones to show you.

The club fair was a bit overwhelming, and I probably have a bunch of unsubscribing to do on my HLS email :P LOL at the Law Review having a booth there. I passed it, but can imagine that the conversation might have gone something like this:

"Hey join our cool journal. It's called the Harvard Law Review."

Student: "Awesome. When can I start?"

"Oh you have to be a 2L and you have to have really good grades and/or win a writing competition which you do right after your finals 1L year."

Student: Oh.


Dinner with the mediation club was pretty cool (free Indian food). The people were nice, and very helpful in answering questions. I'm not sure who Zag met with but I honestly didn't come across a single person like that the entire weekend and I talked to a bunch.

The class I sat in on was Minnow's and it was meh. We sat in on a class where you clearly had to have attended the previous ones to know wtf was going on, but whatever. She didn't seem all that engaging, but she wasn't dreadful either. Again, I don't care all that much about one particular prof.

Lunch with the faculty was awesome. I didn't have a chance to get a question in before the dean made his presentation, so when the prof was leaving, I walked alongside her and asked for a chance to ask a question. We ended up going to her office and talking for like 25 minutes! She was interested and helpful in answering all of my questions and went way beyond the simple courtesy that she could have shown me. It wasn't about selling me on Harvard, it was just about the career of a legal academic and what sorts of decisions/interests I should consider. I really liked this. Oh, I forgot. I went up afterward and talked to the old white guy (supreme court) and Sullivan after their classes and they were both happy to answer my questions and tell me about their careers. I am starting to drink the HLS kool-aid at this point: If i just talk to a professor maybe they'll write my SCOTUS clerkship ticket.

Ok, so that describes my impressions from the trip. Not as concise as I was hoping for, but it just kinda flowed. I guess I'll get to responding to some more specific things re: Harvard (v Yale). For now, I'd like to say that for anyone considering another school over Harvard, you owe it to yourself to attend the April ASW and let them sell you. I think they did an excellent job this weekend.

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zabagabe
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby zabagabe » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:07 am

Hey guys,

Just wanted to clarify a few points based on follow-ups. To address hlsjd12, I’m sorry if I came off sounding arrogant. This certainly wasn’t the purpose of my post. As others said (and as I ended my own post on HLS), I would be very fortunate to attend a law school as good as HLS, and you’re right, we’re all very lucky to be entertaining and rejecting the choices that we are.

However, I don’t think that means we should be sycophantic in our approach to choosing a law school. I hope you read my post about my Yale visit – it was equally critical and equally skeptical of aspects of Yale. I agree with KP – if I’m taking out over $100,000 to finance my legal education, you better believe I’m going to approach every school with a healthy critical perspective. I’ve gone back through my post and it’s not clear to me what was arrogant, other than that I presumed to judge HLS in the first place. As I tried to make clear, I am only writing about my experience and my thoughts about the school. Obviously they aren’t absolute and I don’t think everyone should expect to have my experience or my feelings about the school (there are 550 1Ls and each one will have their own perspective). I have consistently argued against the presumption that one should automatically go to the best law school one gets into, and I have reiterated over and over (read through the YLS waiting room thread) that what you do in law school is more important than where you go (in fact, if anything, I drew ire at one point for going overboard on the Yale Is Not That Important point).

I write this only because I really enjoy the forums, exchanging ideas, opinions and experiences with others, and having a chance to get out my obsessive compulsive disorder regarding law schools with like-minded people. My friends would have long since kicked me in the face if they had to put up with reams and reams of thoughts about the different schools. Flamingo is right – it’s nice to have a place to be critical and not sound conceited. I have really enjoyed the input of others, especially when they disagreed with me or brought up facts I wasn’t aware of. This is all part of a healthy decision-making process, and I thank you guys for discussing and debating with me.

I think we’re getting close enough now to committing to schools that people seem like they are starting to wed themselves to particular institutions (the screenname hlsjd12 suggests your mind is pretty made up!). I think I could be better about this, and probably others could as well, in keeping in mind that critical perspectives on Yale, Harvard, and other schools aren’t attacks or sweeping statements about how Harvard sucks or Yale blows, and that they might start to feel more personal as we get closer to committing to one over others. Nevertheless, (and I can speak only for myself), these are simply observations about pros and cons of attending some of the very best schools. We’re lucky to be in the position to be making such critical commentary and such thoughtful choices. I would like to think we’re all aware that this is essentially splitting hairs in the grand scheme of things, but until we all get to start cracking open some law school textbooks in the fall, I think it’s a pretty useful way to let off some excess law school eagerness. I’ve certainly appreciated older posts from past years as former 0Ls went about their decision-making process, and I would like to think that the conversations I’ve engaged in with others will be helpful to future 0Ls.

In short, I’ve really enjoyed these threads in the past few months. I just want to reiterate that we’re lucky to be in the positions we are, and whatever each of us chooses, they’re all great choices! Congrats again, everyone. :)

jwi518
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby jwi518 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:21 am

8)
Last edited by jwi518 on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JackieTreehorn
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby JackieTreehorn » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:00 am

jwi518 wrote:just think about the poor kid that has been wanting to get into NYU, Boalt, Penn etc. forever but unfortunately may not, b/c you were holding his/her seat.....................Again am not condemning just advising.


Of course it doesn't make sense to hold on to an offer of admission that you will under no circumstances consider. That said, schools build in assumptions based on their yield rates while making offers of admission--think about it, all schools admit more than they have room for; the corollary to this is that other applicants won't be rejected "b/c you were holding his/her seat."

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mightyaphrodite
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby mightyaphrodite » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:40 pm

jwi518 wrote: I was accepted to a lot of the lower T-14 but instead of showboating and taking up a slot and attending every ASW i withdrew quickly to allow someone else the opportunity to get off the waitlist, its hard to justify why someone with HYSCCN commits would be walking around with the rest of the T-14 with no serious intention of attending, all I'm saying is think about the other people that are desperate to get into these schools. Buts its you guy's decision, but just think about the poor kid that has been wanting to get into NYU, Boalt, Penn etc. forever but unfortunately may not, b/c you were holding his/her seat.....................Again am not condemning just advising.


Ugh, I hate this argument.

1. Not everyone blindly follows the rankings and just picks one of HYS. Some people care about quality of life, cost, job opps for significant others, etc.

2. Just because you would pick one of HYS, doesn't mean everyone will (or should).

3. If the poor kid wanted to get into NYU (which is part of HYSCCN, btw), Boalt, Penn, etc, then perhaps s/he should have had a stronger application package. I don't think that someone else's desire to attend should bear any burden on admitted students in the slightest right now, especially since not all schools have processed financial aid packages. If an admitted student wants to take time to be thoughtful about the process, it's not only the most prudent thing to do, but also his or her right.

4. As previously mentioned, they're not going to necessarily start picking people from the WL just because some people withdraw.

hlsjd12
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby hlsjd12 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:02 pm

Actions speak louder than words......mightyaphrodite, I wonder what college you'll be attending in the Fall............

ccw1234
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby ccw1234 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:14 pm

DO NOT mess with mightyaphrodite. You know nothing about this person, or the rationale behind her decisions to explore her options at other schools, and not choose Harvard blindly, as she put it. For those who want to do that, great, I'm sure Harvard is happy for your deposit. For those others, if you do end up choosing Harvard (including myself!), you are no worse off for making reasoned choices after a lot of self-exploration and experience at each school you are considering.

Ugh, I am so mad I could burst right here at my windowless cubicle.

-edited because I don't want to let my cubicle bursting turn into a words war with someone that I know nothing about.

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zabagabe
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby zabagabe » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:46 pm

On a lighter note, I'm extremely impressed: Harvard already processed my travel subsidy and are mailing it out. Talk about quick turnaround!

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mightyaphrodite
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby mightyaphrodite » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:49 pm

hlsjd12 wrote:Actions speak louder than words......mightyaphrodite, I wonder what college you'll be attending in the Fall............


Quoted to show an example of the insufferable twatwaffles I thought I'd encounter at the HLS ASW and why I'm not gung ho about the school.


CCW, thanks for the backup. But yes, don't burst onto your cubicle because it would undoubtedly ruin your outfit for the day :)

franfair
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby franfair » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:55 pm

.
Last edited by franfair on Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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constellationx
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby constellationx » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:17 pm

Yep, I drove up. What I did was fill up my gas tank for the way home before the ASW ended, and then I gave them the receipt while I was there (of course, I wasn't able to give them toll receipts from the way home). I was under the impression that I also could have mailed them receipts when I got home, but I'm not sure if that's correct. Hope that helps.

hopeful2012
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby hopeful2012 » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:27 pm

.

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby iagolives » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:49 pm

zabagabe wrote:On a lighter note, I'm extremely impressed: Harvard already processed my travel subsidy and are mailing it out. Talk about quick turnaround!


Nice! How did you check they were sending it out?

Oh, and they mentioned that there would be financial aid packages going out end of this week and early next. Has anyone heard anything yet?

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zabagabe
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby zabagabe » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:46 pm

They just emailed me to confirm everything had been processed. Unfortunately my mother and the financial aid office are in a feud and she says she will only fill out the paperwork if I am 99% sure I'm going to HLS. :P

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Objection
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby Objection » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:42 pm

ccw1234 wrote:DO NOT mess with mightyaphrodite. You know nothing about this person, or the rationale behind her decisions to explore her options at other schools, and not choose Harvard blindly, as she put it. For those who want to do that, great, I'm sure Harvard is happy for your deposit. For those others, if you do end up choosing Harvard (including myself!), you are no worse off for making reasoned choices after a lot of self-exploration and experience at each school you are considering.

Ugh, I am so mad I could burst right here at my windowless cubicle.

-edited because I don't want to let my cubicle bursting turn into a words war with someone that I know nothing about.


QFTCTR

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FrenchiePatootie
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby FrenchiePatootie » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:14 am

ndnlawdc wrote:
The only TLSer I met was Frenchie, and I didn't even know it until she outed herself as being from NV. FYI, I was the only guy in your negotiation group the first evening. I didn't think the exercise was all that hard -- at least not for us. :)



Ha! Just saw this, ndn it was really nice meeting you and your wife! :)

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FrenchiePatootie
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Re: Harvard ASW-W-WHAT!

Postby FrenchiePatootie » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:23 am

mightyaphrodite wrote:
ndnlawdc wrote:We Priceline-d the Marriott for a dinner at HLS next month. Any thoughts on that place from those who stayed there this weekend? Not that we can change it...



I stayed there for the ASW and I really liked it! I thought the staff was really pleasant, the room was decently sized, and the bed was very comfortable. There's also a flat screen HDTV in the room. The drawback was that they did charge for internet, but I had a way around that so it didn't affect me too much. This was, however, mitigated by the presence of a super efficient Starbucks in the lobby and the uber convenience of the T right outside the back doors of the hotel.


There are 2 marriotts. The one I stayed was the courtyard. Free internet. Large flat screen. Nice, clean. Free shuttle to H Square. Nice staff.

edit:horrifying grammar.




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