Harvard Class of 2012

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
Krswmact
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Krswmact » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:02 am

If you are interested in on campus dorm housing or harvard affiliated apartments you need to fill out applications soon because towards the end of this month they will be doing the 'lottery' to determine on which date you get to pick where you want to live.

Pumpkin
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Pumpkin » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:05 am

ok, the affiliated housing was all pretty pricey right? don't think i can do dorms..

Krswmact
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Krswmact » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:13 am

some of the affiliated housing is actually comparable to the prices of apts if you are looking at living immediatly in the hls vicinity. You just have to look on the website.

packergirl13
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby packergirl13 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:24 am

So the big pull of Gropius it seems is the social aspect (in addition to proximity). Think I'm doomed to a life of social isolation if I live in a townhouse off-campus?

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby iagolives » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:43 am

packergirl13 wrote:So the big pull of Gropius it seems is the social aspect (in addition to proximity). Think I'm doomed to a life of social isolation if I live in a townhouse off-campus?


I doubt you will be doomed to isolation. However, most of the people you know your 1L year will be your section. I think one of the main draws of Gropius (besides its "historic" (sic) architecture) is that you can meet and scoailize with 1Ls outside of your section.

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:20 pm

Finally, official and detailed information on the grading system. Sounds good to me! 92% P and HP.

HARVARD LAW SCHOOL -- MEMO -- NEW GRADING SYSTEM

Note: The rules in this section are fully applicable to students who matriculated at the Law School in September 2008 or later. For particular rules governing grading for students who matriculated before September 2008 please see Section I(H) below.

1. Honors, Pass, Low Pass, or Fail Grades
a) All Harvard Law School courses--with the exception of those offered credit/fail (see I(G)(3) below)--will be graded Honors, Pass, Low Pass, or Fail ("H, P, LP or F").
b) In classes with over 30 JD and LLM students enrolled, the recommended distribution of grades is: 37 percent Honors; 55 percent Pass; and 8 percent Low Pass.
c) In classes with over 30 JD and LLM students enrolled, faculty may, at their discretion, award one or two "Dean's Scholar" prizes in recognition of outstanding work (see I(G)(2) below).

2. Dean's Scholar Prizes
Up to two Dean's Scholar Prizes per class may be awarded in recognition of outstanding work, provided there are more than 30 JD and LLM students in the course following drop/add.
a) The Dean's Scholar Prizes will be included on the transcript and will bear the title of the course, e.g., "Dean's Scholar in Evidence."
b) Cross-registrants and special students do not count toward the required 30 students.
c) Dean's Scholar Prizes will be considered in Latin honors awards in the manner described in Sections (I)(I)(6) and (7) below.
d) Dean's Scholar Prizes will be used to break ties for the Sears Prizes after 1L and 2L years and for the Fay Diploma at graduation. In such cases, Dean's Scholar Prizes will be factored in on a by-credit basis (e.g. a Dean's Scholar Prize in a 4-credit class will count for more than a Dean's Scholar Prize in a 3-credit class). The Latin honors calculation (described in Section (I)(I)(2) below) will determine which students are in the running for the Sears Prizes and the Fay Diploma.

3. Credit/fail Grades
a) All courses previously designated pass/fail will be graded on a credit/fail basis.
b) Study abroad students will receive credit/fail for their work.

HAP - I(H) Grading for the Class of 2010

1. Third-year courses will be graded under the new grading system (H, P, LP, or F) and students are eligible for Dean's Scholar Prizes in these courses in accordance with the Dean's Scholar Prize rules described above in Section I(G)(2).
2. All work for which credit will be given as of 2008-09, including independent writing, will be graded according to the old grading system (A, A-, and so on), even if that work is completed in 2009-10.
3. See I(I)(9) below for Latin honors calculations for the Class of 2010.

HAP I(I) - Graduation with Honors

1. If a student completes the requirements for the J.D. degree with distinction, he or she will receive the degree cum laude, magna cum laude, or summa cum laude.

2. Honors awards will be calculated by subtracting the number of HLS graded credits in which an LP was received from the number of HLS graded credits in which an H was received and dividing the result by the total number of HLS graded credits. (H Credits - LP Credits/Total Credits). Net honors will be calculated for each year of study and then averaged across the three years for Latin honors determinations.

3. The summa cum laude will be awarded to the top one percent of the class according to the honors calculation in (I)(I)(2) above.

4. The magna cum laude will be awarded to the next ten percent of the class according to the honors calculation in I(I)(2) above.

5. The cum laude will be awarded to the next 30 percent of the class according to the honors calculation in I(I)(2) above.

6. In the case of ties at the margin of the percentage required for honors after the net honors calculation as described in (I)(I)(2) above, a student's total number of Dean's Scholar Prize credits will be used to determine his/her ranking for purposes of Latin honor awards.

7. All students who are tied at the margin of the percentage required for honors after net honors and Dean's Scholar Prizes are considered will be deemed to have achieved the required rank for the appropriate Latin honors. Students who graduate in November or March will be granted honors to the extent that students with their same net honors average and the same number of Dean's Scholar Prize credits received honors the previous June.

8. Any student earning an F grade at any time during his/her law school years will automatically be ineligible for Latin honors.

9. Latin honors for students in the Class of 2010:
a) First-year and second-year GPAs will be calculated using the previous grading scale. Third-year GPA will be determined by a simple weighting formula.
b) For transfer students, grades from first-year classes taken in 2008-2009 (given under the new system) will be weighted according to a simple weighting formula and then averaged with all other second-year grades (given under the old system) to determine second-year GPA. Third year GPA will be determined by a simple weighting formula.
c) GPA will be calculated for each year of study and then averaged across the three years for graduation honors determinations.
d) Dean's Scholar Prizes will not be used in the Latin honors award calculations for the Class of 2010.

10. Latin honors for students who matriculated before September 2008 who will graduate after June 2010 will be calculated using, as appropriate, a combination of GPA based on the system of grading prior to 2008-09 and GPA based on a simple weighting formula. GPA will be calculated for each year of study and then averaged across the three years for Latin honors determinations.

11. The following are not included in Latin Honors calculations:
a) Credit/fail courses.
b) Cross-registration courses.
c) W/D notations.
d) Courses in which the student received an F.

HAP I(J) - Minimum Grades

1. The minimum grade required for completion of the J.D. credit requirements is a grade of at least an LP in all required courses and for the total number of credits required for the J.D. degree (see Sections (I)(B) and (C) above).
2. Papers written to satisfy the J.D. Written Work Requirement must receive a grade of LP or better.

HAP I(K) - Minimum Annual Progress

1. First-Year Work:
a) Satisfactory completion of the first-year program--consisting of the required 1L courses (including First-Year Legal Research and Writing) and the upper-level elective credits--requires a grade of at least an LP in every course.
b) A student receiving an F in any required course in the first year is eligible to retake the course or take a re-examination in the course under the examination retake policy in the second year and still maintain his or her minimum academic progress.
c) A student receiving an F in the first year elective course may in the second year either re-take the course or take a different course to make up the failed credits.

2. Second-Year Work--The following minimum requirements must be met:
a) Completed the first-year work with grades that equal or exceed the minimum as set forth in I(K)(1) above, and
b) Grades of LP or better in the minimum number of required credits for the second year of study.
c) Credits for retaking a course or taking reexaminations in order to complete first-year work are not counted for this purpose.
d) Special dispensation to continue in the Law School after the second year of residence without having met these requirements may be granted by the Administrative Board under such terms as it deems appropriate.

3. Third-Year Work--If after completing three years of residency, the minimum grade requirements for the J.D. degree have not been met (see I(K)(1) and (2) above), the following may be used to meet the degree requirements:
(a) Additional courses may be taken within the next two academic years to meet necessary degree requirements;
(b) If a failing grade is the reason for failure to meet the degree requirements, students may exercise the option to retake the course or seminar or take the re-examination or make up the credits either by taking another course, or in another approved fashion, to fulfill the necessary requirements.

4. Any student receiving two or more F's during any academic year will be referred to the Administrative Board. The Administrative Board may decide, in such a case, that the student is unable to advance to the next year.

Section II: Requirements for Graduate Degrees

A. Master of Laws (LL.M.)

3. Minimum Grades

a. In order to be eligible for the LL.M. degree, LL.M. candidates must complete a total of at least 22 credits, of which no fewer than 19 must be graded LP or higher and no fewer than 3 must be graded P or higher.

b. LL.M. candidates must earn a minimum grade of LP on the paper submitted to satisfy the LL.M. Written Work Requirement.

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iagolives
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby iagolives » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:20 pm

I'm glad they finally published this. I know there was a decent bit of rancor over this at the ASW, so it's nice to clear the air. Hey, the breakdown of HP/P sounds good to me; I'm excited! However, parts of this document, I have to admit, made me laugh.

2. Honors awards will be calculated by subtracting the number of HLS graded credits in which an LP was received from the number of HLS graded credits in which an H was received and dividing the result by the total number of HLS graded credits. (H Credits - LP Credits/Total Credits). Net honors will be calculated for each year of study and then averaged across the three years for Latin honors determinations.

...It's the type of thing only future bureaucrats and lawmakers (like much of HLS is) would love. ;)

Thanks for posting it btw Objection!

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joschmo
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby joschmo » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:58 pm

I like those odds, as well as the latin honors assignment algorithm. Good call Iago.

law school question
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby law school question » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:17 am

Any idea what median is considered? I'm pretty sure all P's is below median.

sluggo
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby sluggo » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:24 pm

Well I'm not a math major but if everyone was the same and grades were given randomly you'd have an expectation of 8 LP's, 55 P's and 37 H's over 100 courses.

Assuming that LP's and H's cancel out, that gives us a remaining ratio of 55 P's to 29 H's. Seems like over the course of the first year, if you had 10 courses, your average student might get something like 4 H's, 5 P's and 1 LP or maybe 3/6/1.

So yes, all H's would be below expectation for the random student but the non-random distribution of student talent prevents me from thinking I can guess precisely what the median will be.

If median looks anything like the expectation we have here it seems like getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/3 H, 2/3 P would put you in the ballpark.

Comments/corrections welcomed.

Pumpkin
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Pumpkin » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:00 pm

another random question, if i'm not getting any grants from Harvard but am taking out stafford loans, gradplus etc, this means i'm getting financial aid right? as in i'd get 5500 for summer public interest funding? it says people that don't qualify for financial aid only get 4100...

packergirl13
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby packergirl13 » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:13 pm

Pumpkin wrote: it says people that don't qualify for financial aid only get 4100...


Yikes where does it say that? The OPIA told me anybody is pretty much guaranteed the 5500

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:52 pm

So I want to learn to play golf. My dad has been bugging me and it's about time I learn. Are there any golf lessons through or nearby HLS?

Pumpkin
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Pumpkin » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:53 pm

packergirl13 wrote:
Pumpkin wrote: it says people that don't qualify for financial aid only get 4100...


Yikes where does it say that? The OPIA told me anybody is pretty much guaranteed the 5500


it says it on the summer funding page on the website. i'm pretty sure that even if you just get loans, Harvard says you are getting financial aid (as this allows them to have 80% of students getting aid when most don't get a grant). So i think most people would get the 5500 but it would be great if someone could confirm this point about the aid....

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zabagabe
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby zabagabe » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:28 am

Objection wrote:So I want to learn to play golf. My dad has been bugging me and it's about time I learn. Are there any golf lessons through or nearby HLS?


If HLS doesn't offer it, you should check with HBS. I hear it's one of their majors. :lol:

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:30 am

zabagabe wrote:
Objection wrote:So I want to learn to play golf. My dad has been bugging me and it's about time I learn. Are there any golf lessons through or nearby HLS?


If HLS doesn't offer it, you should check with HBS. I hear it's one of their majors. :lol:


Given how ridiculous their private gym is, it wouldn't surprise me.

cardinalabyss
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby cardinalabyss » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:22 pm

I just got back from the ASP and I really liked it. Unless Yale does some amazing things next week, I'm sending Harvard my seat deposit. :D I'm really excited to almost be done with this! I've been applying, waiting, and deciding for almost 7 months!

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:26 pm

cardinalabyss wrote:I just got back from the ASP and I really liked it. Unless Yale does some amazing things next week, I'm sending Harvard my seat deposit. :D I'm really excited to almost be done with this! I've been applying, waiting, and deciding for almost 7 months!


How were your fellow admits at this one? How many people were there?

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abenn07
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby abenn07 » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:31 pm

cardinalabyss wrote:I just got back from the ASP and I really liked it. Unless Yale does some amazing things next week, I'm sending Harvard my seat deposit. :D I'm really excited to almost be done with this! I've been applying, waiting, and deciding for almost 7 months!


I agree with you on all counts (and I'm glad to know I won't be the only one at Yale's ASP who is in love with Harvard)!

sluggo
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby sluggo » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:39 pm

Does anyone know if you can send the 500 independent of and prior to your decision to defer?

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Objection
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby Objection » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:47 pm

sluggo wrote:Does anyone know if you can send the 500 independent of and prior to your decision to defer?


You're deferring?!

elliej
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby elliej » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:49 pm

I was not impressed by the students (admits or current students) at HLS this weekend. I went into the weekend unsure of whether I'd like Harvard but thoroughly hoping that I would. The classes and mock class were great, as were all of the professors with whom I spoke, so academically (not shockingly) Harvard made a fantastic impression on me. That aside I felt like I might be miserable for three years if I chose to enroll so I will probably withdraw in the next few days and accept at spot at one of the non-HYS schools I really liked.

HAZMAT
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby HAZMAT » Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:30 pm

elliej, how many admits and current students did you have lengthy contact with? Did you somehow just feel like you wouldn't fit in? There will be about 500 kids in the 1L class so there will be lots of opportunities to meet a variety of people. Think about your career goals, etc. before you make a judgment based in a few people.

cardinalabyss
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby cardinalabyss » Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:42 pm

Objection wrote:How were your fellow admits at this one? How many people were there?


I guess that me and abenn07 weren't impressive enough for elliej! (Kidding! In all seriousness, elliej, I think that it's awesome that you are choosing happiness over anything else and I'm sure that if you got into HLS, you'll have an awesome career no matter where you go.)

I thought that in general, the other admits were friendly and an impressive and grounded group. That's, of course, with the exception of that girl who was sitting in the front row in the mock class who wouldn't stop trying to answer all the questions. I'm not trying to start a fight and I hope she doesn't read these forums but she was a total nightmare and it's way too early to start being a gunner! Luckily, Prof. Sullivan was really an incredible professor so it helped to offset my annoyance with her but if she goes to HLS and is in my section, I will seriously consider transferring schools.

Anyway, I'm horrible at estimating the number of people in a certain place but I think that there were about 150 people? Does that sound accurate?

abenn07 wrote:I agree with you on all counts (and I'm glad to know I won't be the only one at Yale's ASP who is in love with Harvard)!


No, you'll definitely be in good company. Maybe I'll bring my tan, camo bag to show my commitment to HLS. (I'm obviously joking. There's no way that I'm ever carrying that bag!)

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BeastCoastHype
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Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Postby BeastCoastHype » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:08 pm

I'm on the waitlist. Maybe I'll see you guys if I get some crazy e-mail like the first week of classes telling me I can come. Otherwise have a good time.




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